skip to main content

Why does no one plant native Stewartia?

10 years ago

I just discovered there are two species of Stewartia native to North America, Stewartia ovata and Stewartia malacodendron. Native flowering trees, at least one of which is good to zone 5/ Why are these so seldom planted? Is there some "catch"? Are they vulnerable to disease or something?

Featured Answer

sam_md

6 years ago

Quick update on my Silky Camellia. I consider it a distinctive shrub. Yellow fall color is fleeting.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (40)

User
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Mmm, they are rare in the UK too. They are slow...and this is usually a negative for many people but, for the UK tree growing trade, the main issue is their reluctance to transplant. None of that undercutting and lifting from the fields as bare roots - they have to be grown in pots...for a longish time - consequently, a good specimen is not cheap...although this is only an assumption of mine .I would love one - especially for that gorgeous bark - but they are not keen on lime so they are cast aside like rhodies, flowering dogwoods, zenobia and enkianthus as being too problematic. Anyone who grows camellias really ought to give this close relative a try. No terrible disease issues I am aware of - I also think accessibility is an issue - many nurseries are tightening up their inventory and giving space to a relatively unknown and risky tree/shrub is a big gamble.
User
10 years ago
Thats a new one on me, I had to look them up Plants like the first one with the word 'mountain' in the name (Mountain Camelia) are plants I'm usually pessimistic about thriving out here in the midwest. It appears they are both forest plants, Appalachian Mountain natives that grow in a limited area. Its pretty though.

My habit when I'm venturing away from Oklahoma is to consider plants straight south or westward so I'm not too familiar with the lesser known natives in the SE corner of the United States, forests or the Mississippi states, those areas strike me as being wetter than we are here. Maybe I'm wrong but I tend to stereotype that part of the country that way.

I really like running across garden worthy native plants that aren't commonly grown or sold commercially so I think if you can find one, that would be a real asset to your garden.
Related Discussions
Why native plants matter
Q
Comments (11)
Many so-called "exotics" attract just as much wildlife and beneficials as do native plants. Quite a few of these are merely cultivated forms of indigenous or native plants that have been developed for enhanced attributes - disease resistance may be only one of these aspects. While there are many benefits to using natives in the landscape - greater adaptability to specific locations/climates being one - native plants can also be less than ideally attractive, often appearing somewhat weedy or unkempt. In certain neighborhoods governed by HOA's or covenants, the use of only natives may be discouraged or outright prohibited. It would probably make more sense to shoot for some sort of balance between natives and more exotic ornamentals. The exotics are not by definition considered bad or less desirable, provided one stays away from those that require excessive chemicals to maintain or that pose invasive potential. You will get the greatest benefit from any significant biodiversity in your plant selection regardless of origin and as rhodium has so astutely pointed out, avoiding all use of pesticides and other garden chemicals. And remember, if you restrict yourself to planting ONLY natives, you can pretty much kiss off much of anything in the way of common edibles or basic kitchen garden produce.
...See More
Stewartia,... planted in stone, tree-ring
Q
Comments (8)
garp1: .... Thanks for getting back to me with the somewhat disheartening advice against planting the Stewartia in a mostly, full-sun location. Yes, the patio is in full-sun, but only in early-morning, however, it does get some shade from late-morning until about 3:00PM. The roof-line of my house throws a shadow onto the porch, and then, as the sun swings around in late afternoon, the porch gets hit with sun again, until dusk. I should have been a little more specific, regarding the lighting conditions on my front porch, in my earlier post. However, I doubt that this changes anything ... or, does it? Well, I asked for some practical advice, and, I got it ... and, I'm glad. What fooled me was that this tree was growing in a full-sun exposure at the nursery, so I figured that this will grow just as well on my front porch. Now, I know better. You're right when you guessed that this tree didn't come cheap. It lightened my wallet, big time!!!!!! I'd rather take a chance at growing the tree in a less than ideal location, than, give it away. Most people who see the tree, ask me what kind of "Rose-of-Sharon" is it? Maybe I'll carefully remove the tree, without disturbing the roots, repot it into a larger, 20-gallon container, and grow it at the intended location, just to see how it does. If it doesn't decline, maybe I'll take a chance and plant it into the tree-ring. I calculated the volume of soil which will be contained on this tree-ring that I'm building, and it comes close to 225 gallons of soil. The Acer griseum that you mentioned, was actually, my first choice for this spot, but any, decent size tree, was far too expensive for my budget. Besides, most of the A. griseums that I've seen in nurseries, were either, too small, or more often, so hideous, and, poorly grown, that I would've had to prune half the tree away just to correct all the defects. I can't understand how nurseries get away with selling such poorly-grown crap!!! Most of what I see being sold, and, at such high prices, belongs in the compost piles, but some poor suckers still buy this garbage. It's all too common to see bad crotches, weak, double-leaders, - that will eventually split, - crossing branches rubbing away bark, rotting, branch stubs - from improper pruning, - and the list goes on, and on. Absolute crap for sale !!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, thanks again for helping me out, with what may be, a very costly mistake. I'll do more homework before my next purchase. I'll let you know if this saga has a happy ending. Cordially, Frank
...See More
Replacing thirsty plants, one native at a time
Q
Comments (20)
my vague sense is that grafted roses may lose their graft, but selfrooted cv can't. I've seen roses grown dry. they flower in spring, then dry back. drip. streamside/watercourse plants should like drip. (grapes, brambles, bermuda grass, aesculus c., iirc oleander. poplar would like drip so much, it would soon clog your water meter :-) ) ca natives have brief history of cultivation (nursery, hort abuse and hybridization, selection), so non-watercourse natives (diplacus?) likely lack hort-flexibility of non-watercourse ancient hort plants (perhaps olive is good example?). soil. suburbs are usually clay. most aesthetically popular dry plants are native to coarser soils (or are large) Reading years ago, I decided that all major Mediterranean climates differ significantly from each other. We grow plants without their native fauna and flora. so much is different... so, nothing beats (somebody's) hands-on research :-)
...See More
one year of native plant gardening in the Sacramento Valley
Q
Comments (18)
Sorry if I came off as so negative with my advice, certainly you have gained a wealth of personal experience that has now elevated you from a "newbie" gardenener to one more experienced with the trials and tribulations of invasive weeds, and poor winter drainage. A bit more about using Roundup in case you didn't know: 1. Works best when bermuda grass has not been cut back, but is full and lots of surface foliage 2. Apply when bermuda grass is in active growth(usually once it has hit 75F temps for a couple of weeks 3. Roundup works best when you have consistent warm weather so that it actively gets translocated to the roots 4. When bermuda grass is invading from the neighbors gardens, you need to do regular weed patrol to keep on top of runners that spring up from under the fence, probably at least every couple of weeks About the annual bluegrass: 1. If you are planting out small seedlings that can't effectively compete with weeds, try cutting an 18 square of weed fabric and pinning down at the edges around any new seedlings, this is what is typically done with revegeatation seedlings/trees planted out in grasslands, they need help creating a clear zone so that they can get large enough to compete with the weeds/grasses 2. Mulching deeply to keep bare soil from being exposed greatly helps with inhibiting weed seeds that need light to germinate, such as the annual blue grass 3. If you are trying to reseed poppies and other wildflowers, you can keep smaller areas weedfree and scatter saved seed, but will need to be vigilant about weeding seedlings of weeds as they come up Watering new plantings; 1. Standing with the hose and giving things a splash of water just isn't enough with valley heat and small seedlings with their limited roots 2. Better to give things a really good soak twice a day if starting seedlings when the weather is still hot, and use mulch to minimize soil evaporation 3. You might consider creating temporary shade structures using bamboo stakes and shade cloth if you can't resist starting seedlings outside the ideal fall planting window 4. Ideal time to plant out small sized native species is in the fall, once it starts to cool off enough in your area that you won't be getting any more 75F and above days, this makes a huge difference in heat and water stress for small plants Drainage issues 1. You are absolutely right that if you didn't know how poorly drained your intended garden was going to be, you wouldn't have known that it would be a problem. 2. You now know that it may be worth investigating first before you start planting; ie, look to see if there are rain gutters or downspouts off the roof, where they drain, if there is enough slope to the ground that water can drain away, etc. It may also be helpful to ask the neighbors, landlord, former tenants, when you have a chance to do so, if there are any drainage problems with the site Weeds; 1. You now have the experience to be a better judge of whether your intended garden area is surrounded by weeds, and if so, you now also know that it is always a good idea to try and get rid of the stored seed bank before you start planting 2. Getting rid of entrenched weeds may mean using Roundup at the right time of year to effectively kill them(and use the full strength applications and repeat usage after clearing away killed weeds, watering for at least a couple of weeks to initiate new growth, wait until weed regrowth is at least a couple of inches and spray again. You may need to do this 3 or 4 times over 3 to 4 months to get rid of all the weeds. 3. It may be useful to cultivate/disturb the soil several times to expose weed seeds to light, hoe them off or spray with herbicide, and repeat several times if you suspect you have a real weed problem. This could even mean that you don't plant your garden until 3 to 4 months of weed treatment. Dogs and new plants 1. it may be preaching to the choir, but small plants and dogs who aren't trained to be careful around small plants, or don't get enough walks/excercise to keep from being bored when left alone all day, are not a good mix with new plantings, especially at small vulnerable sizes. It only makes sense to give the plants some protection from dogs if you can't mitigate their behavior, dogs will do what dogs want to do without work on your part. Maybe I have just been lucky with the dogs I have owned, but I started training them very young to be careful around the garden, and not destroy young or old plants. I also had the time to take them on long walks every day, and burn off all that excess energy, which is important when you have a labrador retriever. Now if I could just train the raccoons not to damage plants in my garden.. You have gotten some valuable experience in gardening by the "trial by fire" method, but it can also be useful to ask questions when you aren't clear on the methods, take classes, and keep reading up. Obviously there isn't just one way to garden, and I certainly don't claim to know all the answers, but over 40 years of gardening, over 30 years of them professionally, mean that I do have a very good handle on how to handle weeds, drainage, soil amendmending, etc to fit within the budgets and efforts of my clients, and can tailor solutions that will work within different circumstances. It is always about tradeoffs, and I am not against using weedcloth as a first line of defense to be set underneath deep mulch when I can't eliminate the weeds in the first place, it has been my only workable method to minimize bermuda grass and Oxalis pes-capri infestations when I didn't have the time or budgets necessary to really control them before new landscape plantings.
...See More
dbarron
10 years ago
Yep, my nursery contact calls them fussy (and if she does..then I don't dare try them). And strangely, my concern was the lack of moisture too (from what she said)...so if I worry about that...you certainly should in OK.

Some of those eastern natives do quite well here (and there)..but that would primarily be those that grow in plains/glades I would think.
Lynda Waldrep
10 years ago
I have seen both in the wild, and they are spectacular plants. I was able to get seeds of S. ovata and have quite a few started. I have been told they are easy to germinate but difficult to keep going, as wet winters, which we have here in NC, can be deadly to potted plants. A friend gave me a piece of S. malacadendron that had layered itself, and I hope it will "take." I bought two of these years ago, and they are still small. So, yes, very slow and fairly expensive to buy, but they are worth trying to include in your garden if you can find one. If one ever blooms for me, I will certainly post a photo!
sam_md
10 years ago

This link is of a previous discussion of silky camellia, scroll down.
Lynda Waldrep
10 years ago
Lovely photos. Hope those were taken in your yard! My bought trees came from a vendor at Cullowhee Native Plant Conference and from UNC Charlotte plant sale at the greenhouse.

Sam, were you successful eventually in getting any starts from seeds, layering, or cuttings? My "layered" piece looks quite healthy and adjusted to its new place. Fingers crossed!
susanpeach
10 years ago
ncrescue, any chance I could get from you a stewartia ovata that you've started from seed? I have a little place in Rabun County, Georgia which is smack in the limited native range S. ovata, and would love to see one growing here. Thanks for the tip on Cullowhee Native Plant Conference; I'll be going in July to see if I can find my summer dogwood
Lynda Waldrep
10 years ago
I am taking some to the plant auction for the NC Native Plant Society. If I have one left, I will bring to you at Cullowhee. I don't think I would want to mail it although the three year old ones are only about 12 in. tall. I planted one of the four year old ones in the yard in January of this year, and it has already grown about six more inches!! Guess they like it better in the ground, and they probably don't suffer as much from the excessive rain we have had in the last month.

This one has been identified as S. ovata v. grandiflora, so it has the purple stamens that make it look like the other native one.

Email me a reminder off list so that I don't forget.
susanpeach
10 years ago
Well, I can't figure out how to email you off list. susanpeach at livedotcom
sam_md
10 years ago

pic taken today, the absolute crown jewel of my flowering shrubs.
Lynda Waldrep
10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago
Wonderful! But what does the $5 indicate? Size? Is this one S. ovata v. grandiflora? It has purple stamens, but so does S. malacodendron. Anyway, it deserves to be your crown jewel.
sam_md
10 years ago
I think its important to put something in the pic to indicate scale, that way we can see the large, 4" flowers of S. malacodendron. The bark is not ornamental but who cares with flowers like those.
Lynda Waldrep
10 years ago
More native plant people should seek out this plant. It really is special. Thanks for posting the photo.
lwally14
9 years ago
ncrescue, I discovered this plant online. I'm having a very difficult time locating any plants or seeds. Would you be willing to part with some seeds?
Lynda Waldrep
9 years ago
I don't have any seeds at the moment. I sent some to Niche Gardens in NC. They grew them out so may have some plants left. I donate the ones I have left to our NC Native Plant Society, to auction for money for our scholarships.
lwally14
9 years ago
Thanks for the response. I will check them out.
cyn427 (z. 7, N. VA)
9 years ago
I planted one here in northern VA, but it didn't survive.
Lynda Waldrep
9 years ago
Stewartias, at least in pots, don't like a wet winter and will rot. However, my plants that I raised from seed were planted out in Oct. two years ago and are doing fine. No extra water after the first week. Before I was "into" natives, I planted Camellias and overwatered that summer, killing most of them.
Lynda Waldrep
9 years ago
I have to post my first Stewartia malacodendron blooms. These are from the layered plant I got three seasons ago. The S. ovatas are still too small to bloom, but they look healthy. I hope that these blooms turn into seeds. Would love to try to grow these out, too. Counted 15 buds, so maybe at least one will get pollinated.
sam_md
9 years ago

Sept of 2015 I put several seed in these pots and simply forgot about them. Many have germinated and the ones that appear empty may germinate next year, that's Stewartia for you they germinate on their own schedule.

My large shrub in my side yard is absolutely loaded this year. Funny thing, have never seen any winged insect come to the flowers. There are however many bitty ants. What pollinates stewartia flowers?
Lynda Waldrep
9 years ago
I always wait at least three years before "dumping" the pots. Halesias are often slow, too, although this past season I had a couple germinate in the first year. I am excited at your news of germination and hope I get some seeds to try. However, we had so much rain that blooms fell off rather quickly. Fingers crossed. Thanks for sharing your info.
barbarag_happy
8 years ago
Stewartia has established itself deep in the woods within a local arboretum. All attempts to establish it in a prominent location where visitors can easily see it have been in vain.

I would love to grow it at home but my woods are next to a tidal marsh. Too wet.
Lynda Waldrep
6 years ago
No blooms on any of my plants this past season. I was traveling this fall so missed most of the autumn leaves. Thanks for your photo. I need to check GW more often...distracted by FB.
sam_md
5 years ago
Following up on earlier info on this thread. First pic is of capsules collected today. Second pic is cleaned seed. Last pic is one year seedling on left and two years later on the right. The seed has been sown and not allowed to dry or dehydrate. Around here at least temps are still balmy. Small pots with seed are allowed to get cold and freeze when temps get cold. PROTECT FROM VERMIN. Next spring as much as 50% germination can be expected. Want more on Silky Camellia? Check out Dr Pell's short video and notice the attention she pays to flower detail.
Lynda Waldrep
5 years ago
Thanks for the update. Someone gave me seeds this year, and I cleaned and planted immediately I had a few germinate from seeds given to me two years ago. This is a slow process, but I will keep trying.
Patti Chicago Zone 5b/6a
5 years ago
Wow!! A flower like that is worth the wait. Keep up the great work of keeping a most beautiful native going in our country. I would love to be able to enjoy the blooms and I am sure they make you happy and proud.
sam_md
5 years ago
A current pic of seedlings from 2019 seed. Only half a flat of seedlings, chipmunks got to the seed on the other side. Let's hope I can keep them going up to two gallon size.
Lynda Waldrep
5 years ago
Yeah! I have only a few, and I am afraid to pot up, as that is when I lose them. Happy to hear of your success.
ruth1
4 years ago
I live in the mountains of northeast TN and am hoping to grow some from seed. I think they would do well here since it's close to their natural range. It's great to see some of you having success with this!
Lynda Waldrep
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
There is a person in GA near the NC/TN line who has been successful. He has sent me seeds as have others, and I occasionally get some germination, but growing out is slow. I even bought one years ago, and it is still only two feet fall, so slow growing. Still, every time I see a bloom, it is true excitement. I had great success with the non-native, Stewartia rostrata.
ruth1
4 years ago
I've been in my current home for 11 years, with a goal of trying to rewild the land here. I’m in city limits, but with 10 acres there is a lot to restore. I’ve spent much of the time clearing out invasives and removing aggressive plants from the previous owner like ivy, liriope, and vinca among others. I’ve had good success with wildflowers, but since shrubs and trees take longer that is still a project in process. I’ve put in a few non-native Stewartia to get a sense of how they adjust to local conditions. Stewartia rostrata and Stewartia monadelpha are growing well, but so far only Stewartia pseudocamellia has flowered. I have grown a lot of my plants here from seed but none of my plant societies has offered the native Stewartia so I’m looking for a good source. In the meantime, I’m also adding lots of other native trees and shrubs, with great growth by native azaleas and others. I’ll follow this thread with interest to learn more about your success.
Lynda Waldrep
4 years ago
I have a Stewartia pseudocamellia that is almost 40 years old and really blooms. Although it is not native, I cannot eliminate it, but it was sold to me as a small, understory tree, and it is now huge, so in the wrong place. When someone else gets this property, I am sure they will cut it down. My still small but sometimes blooms Stewartia malacodendron came from a layering process off a very mature tree. I have a Franklinia, too, but that is another story and another great plant.
ruth1
4 years ago
Sounds like we have similar tastes in plants. I have a couple Franklinia, though I generally either grow from seed or buy tiny plants so neither of them has flowered. I try to grow and plant mainly native, but am not a total purist. When I first started gardening back in the early 90s I lived in central NC and planted everything very widely spaced to its ultimate height. But the garden looked ridiculous at least while I lived there. So now I consider full size, but tend to plant too close together, knowing that not all will survive anyway.
HU-301714730
3 years ago
Desperately looking for a Stewartia Ovata, preferably one that has some size. Does anyone know of a source? I'm in Maryland.
ruth1
3 years ago
I haven't found a source for them either, let me know if you do. Good luck!
Lynda Waldrep
3 years ago
Noticed that five years ago I planted S. malacodendron seeds. I now have four babies in pots from probably at least 100 seeds. No wonder they are difficult to find! S. rostrata, not a native, is growing out faster. I received a batch of seeds two years ago, but so far no germination. I don't think I will try again, but I am grateful for what I have. In years past, vendors at the Native Plant Conference in Cullowhee, NC, had a few native Stewartias, but I don't think anyone did this year. We may have to wait for tissue culture to create these wonderful trees. Sam _md, are your seedlings still doing well?
Stella Schramm
2 years ago
The Daniel Boone native garden in Boone, NC has a beautiful grove of these trees. They are truly remarkable.
Lynda Waldrep
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I had a house near Boone an visited ther quite often, but I don't remember seeing Stewartias there. In which part? If I go back next year I will look for them.Someone is mailing me more native Stewartia seeds. Exciting. Will try one more time!
Stella Schramm
2 years ago
As you enter the Daniel Boone native garden, the stewartia grove is on the furthest end of the garden, on the far left.

Related Stories

NATIVE PLANTS Plant These Fall-Flowering Natives in Early Summer for Pollinator Love

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

These 3 groups of plants will support masses of beneficial insects come autumn

GROUND COVERS Native Alternatives to English Ivy, Japanese Pachysandra and Periwinkle

By Curtis Adams

These shade-loving ground covers are good for the environment and say something about where you are

GARDENING GUIDES 15 Native Flowers That Feed Native Bees

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

These perennials offer superfood to hundreds of bees and are gorgeous in their own right

GARDENING GUIDES 9 Clay-Busting Native Flowers for Summer Sun

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

These plants survive and even thrive in tough clay soil east of the Rocky Mountains

NATIVE PLANTS Great Native Plant: Grow Wild Quinine for Its Unique Clusters of Blooms

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Get connoisseur cred and unique blooms with this uncommon plant. Bonus assets: It’s low maintenance and drought tolerant

GARDENING GUIDES 10 Deer-Resistant Native Flowers to Plant This Fall

Learn about natives that embrace some kinds of wildlife but resist grazing deer

GARDENING GUIDES Great Native Plant: Baptisia

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Bring beneficial bee pollinators with this drought-tolerant perennial that looks like a shrub and acts like a flower

GARDENING GUIDES Top 10 Native Plants for the Northeast

By Ellen Sousa/Turkey Hill Brook Farm

For a low-maintenance, wildlife-friendly landscape, use native plants adapted to the climate and range of soils in the Northeast

GARDENING GUIDES We Bust 4 More Native Plant Myths

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Have you been taken in by these fallacies about gardening with native plants?

GARDENING GUIDES How to Find the Right Native Plants for Your Yard

By Benjamin Vogt / Monarch Gardens

Find plant maps, sale sites and guides that make going native in the garden easier than ever

Sponsored

More Discussions

Switchgrass and root rot

0

cold stratification?

1