Question about Design Fee
jpmom
8 years ago
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Question about design estimate
Comments (13)Woodyoak -- we live on top of glacial till. Literally. I think it was called the Wisconsin Glacier in the last Ice Age. We grow rocks. We practice what we call Extreme Gardening. We dig holes with a pickax in order to pop a daffodil bulb into the ground. Usually there isn't much dirt; the trees appear to cling to life by setting their roots in leaf mold that builds up between the rocks. We usually have to add dirt to whatever hole we dig, because when we dig the hole, it's a matter of removing rocks, which, of course, leaves a hole but no dirt. Down on "the flat" -- the vast majority of our acreage, which is flat along the creek (and is in a 100-year flood plain) -- there is substantial good soil, thanks to sediment from floods and flow down the hill. But on the hill itself, which is where our house is nestled, about 100 feet above "the flat" -- it's all rocks tumbled together for several feet below the surface. I have no idea why we haven't slid into the creek, but we built 10 years ago and the house hasn't settled unexpectedly or anything, and we've had THREE 100-year floods in recent years. It's a good solid glacier . In several places, we have dug down far enough to expose a mostly clay soil underneath the rock/leaf mold. It's not so great either. I figure any substantial beds from hereon out will have to be raised. We do tuck plants that are suited to our area into the unadulterated ground, and they do OK. It's the deer that kill us, not the rocky soil. Drainage-wise, because of the rocky substrate, we have no issues along the slope, and the wetlands areas on "the flat" are the natural places that the water runs to (and that I would like to accent, not "deal with.") But I understand your concerns. Not being from around here, it must look like the pit of hell, from the standpoint of landscape design. I say that with cheer and optimism! If I can garden here, I can freakin' garden ANYWHERE!!! And when we have parties like this, it makes it all worthwhile:...See MoreNeed Advice on Interior Design Fee Issue Longish Post
Comments (34)Just posting an update since we met with the designer last night. Turns out that he would have been collecting the following types of compensation under his "flat rate" model: - charging us a flat amount for design fees - marking up purchases 12% from his cost - marking up bids from contractors by some higher amount (which apparently varies by project) to cover his costs for overseeing the project, insurance, etc. He said he made the switch to hourly given the amount of research and shopping we were doing. He also asserted that he would have earned close to the same amount for the project on the original billing rate because of the markups. That is faulty logic and we told him so - our budget was our budget so marking up purchases would have meant we would have been buying less items and/or lower-quality items in order to stay within our budget. 12% of $17K is $2200 no matter what items you buy for it. And our labor costs are modest because the space was already roughed in, so he would have needed an ENORMOUS markup on the labor charges to get anywhere close to the amount that he was showing as payable based on his hourly rate. We also told him that had we known that we were being charged for every hour of work we would have used him differently. Until I asked, he never presented an interim summary of his hours or billings, or mentioned any concern for how we would stay within our budget given how much of his time he was spending. But he WAS aware of our budget and knew that we were going to some lengths to try to stick to it. To me this is the most important issue that makes his billed hours an unfair amount. A lot of our time in research was spent trying to find affordable alternatives for some of the ideas that he presented - we didn't want to change the design but we couldn't afford to do what he was suggesting. Logic says that he really wasn't being that mindful of the budget issues in presenting appropriate ideas in the first place. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this was a MAJOR disconnect on his part, which meant that a large number of his hours were billed without regard to what would be in our best interest. He conceded that he should have been much clearer about what terms he was thinking of changing and what the impact of that change would be on us. He is going to look at his time and use a couple of alternative approaches for how he could be compensated to come up with a number that will be his flat fee for the entire project, capped. Supposed to get Monday am. Said he really wants to oversee the completion of the work and understands that we will not explicitly compensate him for that. I am still concerned about what number he is going to propose but at least it will hopefully be in the neighborhood of a more fair amount....See Morefiguring out designer's fees; need to resolve
Comments (13)Meg, imo, you really need to move away from this designer. If nothing else, this is causing you a great deal of increased stress. That takes a lot of your time and energy, too. I'd just finish up whatever is hanging and not involve her in other issues. While moving on, you may stumble upon someone else better suited to help you with things. Where you just click. As far as charges, I think it's ridiculous to charge for general contacts. Design help in emails, I think, is another story. And the per email thing is a racket. Fixing problems -- well, there are always problems to be resolved and the world just doesn't turn perfectly or as expected. That's part of a designer's job and expertise for sale -- to get it done and know how to handle the problems. So, depending, one can't put it all on the designer (to be perfect, have a crystal ball, and to have everyone else be perfect too). That's just a scapegoat for hire and unfair, imo. Now if it's just negligence and carelessness at your expense, that's another story, too. Gee, did you just send her to LA and Mehico??? Not a bad deal....See MoreKind of basic question about kitchen designers
Comments (19)Sorry- to long as usual but here goes. It is really no more of an investment in time than looking for cabinets in the first place. It is a question of deciding what you are shopping for- price, brand, or service. It is just a question of focus. Too many people simply shop for-plywood, soft close, a pretty picture, a display they like,a color, a price. Finding a good KD- there is no simple litmus test- Talent, education, certification, years of expereicne (see below), what computer program, hand drawing, rendering prowess, all take a back seat to work ethic. Will they work for and with you. Your initial concact with them in the showroom should be between one and two hours unless you get a hunch that this is not the person quickly. Whenever possible make an appointment first. IF that asking for an appointment is met with “just come in anytime” it may less than an ideal place IMO. Before you go have a clear idea of what you would like, how you would like it to work, what you must have. Consider any and all procedural aspects you are interested in: scheduling appointments, service, follow up, changes and revisions, overall timing, will they at least advise on portions of the design they don't sell you (color, tile, backsplash, etc.) Only you know what is important to you. Find out in the beginning, ask don't assume. But don't be in a rush to get those answers, just know what your questions are. Listen, most of your questions should be answered during the overall presentation. For any that are not ask them at the end if you are still interested. First off you want a good fit, it should feel right to you. You don't need to marry them but you don't want to be annoyed, feel inadequate, confused, or untrusting. This is perhaps the most important aspect and just takes paying attention to your gut. Your SIL may think I'm great but you can't tolerate me then I'm not the one. Ask for and check references-preferably in the same budget range you are in. Don't look for a perfect record, better to find out how follow up was, how issues were dealt with. Ideally you want them from the last year or two, say 3 to 6 of em (depends on budget how many they can give you) It can be a good sign that you are getting current ones if they say they must check with the client first, means you are not getting a cherry picked list but rather more recent jobs. (I am always surprised how rarely anyone asks for references.) Will they, can they work within your budget. A good indicator would be when they discuss what kind of compormises you are willing to make to what you want. Just about everyone has to either adjust the want list or the budget to get the two to coincide. The KD who simply says yes to everything is a red flag. A bonus : suggesting “brand A” over “brand B” when both meet your budget but they feel that for your specific kitchen brand A is a a better value. Are they willing to price multiple options including the next better brand just to see if that may work for you (this is not an upsell technique, just due diligence) What questions they ask can tell you as much as the answers they give to your questions. Just as in a job interview it should be a 50/50 conversation. How many kitchens do they do a month/year/week. It is pretty hard to produce quality work if overloaded and the business model is crank em out. Max is 25 to 30 “sold” and less than 100 worked on a year. Some places have a model where the KD has a lot of backend support for ordering and drawing. In those cases the volume an individual can handle could almost double. By the same token, only a handful sold in a year (unless they are doing lots of big or hi end projects) would be a red flag. The business model matters more than the size of the business. A KD with only a couple of years expereicne at a place with a few designers BUT with strong support from the owner and other designers can be better than am old timer working at a “kitchen mill” where the emphasis is sales volume. How much freedom does the KD have to do what they think needs be done? A small place with only one or two KD's usually means one of them is the principal. Whenever possible talk with the owner too. How long have people worked for this place? Do they go through KD's like water or do they stay? Denigrating the competition is a no-no. Do they take notes? Do they continue to ask questions? Is it a serious conversation or a sales pitch? Do they occasionally challenge you on your choices-IOW do they ask “why?” You don't want someone to tell you “you don't want to do that” just because they don't do it a certain way or don't like a feature. You DO want someone to keep you from shooting yourself in the foot not just “yes ma'am”. As Green pointed out there are not a lot of independants. Personally I believe there are advantages to having a commissioned KD (glorified cabinet salesman). They are invested in your budget and have all the tools needed to make it. Independants like architects are not always great at staying on budget and are not accountable for it. When I started on my own we thought that most if not all of what I did would be independent. That quickly changed. I still do some independent design work but only for certain professionals in specific circutmstances. Snoonyb wrote: ;Bag-n-box cabinets are dimensioned in 3" increments. Custom cabinets, those built in a locale cabinet shop, use every " of space. Most of what is available at the “box stores” are that way. Visit an independent and discover that there are many modestly priced semi custom brand allow sizing in 1/8” increments, often at no charge. Other rather extensive modifications are also common. From the upper middle price point, every brand I know allows sizing and other mods. (I have one that is capable of doing 64ths.) I've never been willing to be prevented from designing what needs to be done by size restrictions-at almost any but the absolute lowest price point....See Morejpmom
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