Breville Smart oven or Cuisinart 300N combo steam/convection oven?
jane2000
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
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Comments (3)I haven't used the Breville oven, but others have spoken highly. When I went to college, the only thing we had were toaster ovens, and you can make them work pretty well, as long as you aren't cooking for a crowd. If I were you, I would check out the Cuisinart Combi Steam, if you have a Williams and Sonoma nearby you might see if they have it in stock, . You might even consider ordering it by mail - WS has a 90 day return policy if you don't like it.. While it is a little smaller than the Breville, it does have the steam option, which could be attractive even after your kitchen is finished. Here is a link that might be useful: Cuisinart Combi Steam...See MoreCuisinart Combo Steam & Convection Toaster Oven
Comments (26)Hard to explain until you have one in hand to experiment with. I replaced my vintage double wall oven with a single side door oven and a built-in steam oven a few years ago. Controlled steam is superior for so many things as mentioned above. All veg, even a simple root veg or potato, has so much flavor. I re-heated frozen lasagna that I made last month...as good even better than when first made. We rely so heavily on roasting/crisping for flavor but often not needed. If I want that it is a quick 3-4 min under the broiler for toasting/roast flavor. Two different dishes, a protein and a rice veg, on separate trays, can steam simultaneously without crossed flavors. Even guessing at time/temp seems to be very forgiving. It does leave a bit of moisture behind that needs wiping, but leaving the door open overnight will keep any microbial mess from forming. As well as the water reservoir. For those new at steaming, leave the reservoir out of it's slot to air dry. My kitchen is tiny hobbit-like so no counter space. Niente, nada. Not even a toaster. I use the broiler. A small wall oven is so efficient and right at eye level with a big clear door....See MoreSteam Ovens? Combination Ovens?
Comments (22)M, It is two separate statements. My first statement is taken out of context and is a comment on this. It is talking just about transfer of flavor. "You can cook the fish vegetables and a starch, like couscous or bulgur, all at the same time in the CSO without any flavor transfers, This is because of convection and the catalyzer rather than the steam. ____________ The second statement is this. For someone making this decision, they need to isolate what the steam capability truly adds to the combi oven and how they might use it. I agree that using steam has certain unique capabilities and that is my point. Because a CSO can also function as a regular or convection oven many people attribute things that are functions of standard or conv ovens as benefits of the CSO. I'm saying isolate the benefits of steam to see if a CSO is a worthwhile investment for that person. Someone might say I can bake great cookies in a CSO. You can but there is not an exclusive benefit or use of the steam capabilities for that. "In this particular example, dry air actually has really poor heat conductivity and really poor heat capacity. If it wasn't for natural or forced convection, it would in fact be a really good insulator." Heat transfer is a pretty complex subject. A standard/conv oven has so many variables. A CSO adds steam but might take away something else. Cold air would be an insulator to cold chicken but hot air would still transfer heat. Fan assisted convection is one way to increase the rate of transfer because it moves that slightly cooled hot air away and replaces it with hot air. You also have heat transfer by conduction and radiation. Radiation can be 50% of the heat. How does the radiant heat vary in an oven with stainless walls vs enameled steel? With a hidden bake element? What is the bulk of a CSO vs regular ovens and how much heat does it hold. How does a Pyrex dish increase the rate of heat transfer in the different types of ovens vs aluminum or stainless steel pans? If you think about what happens in cooking, it raises a lot of questions. I have actually read that steam can be cooling. It slows the setting and browning of a crust on a loaf of bread. How can that be if it increases the rate of heat transfer? I guess the question would be if water vapor is condensing on the surface of meat, releasing heat and then evaporating taking away heat, what is the net loss or gain of heat? How does conductive and radiant heat figure in? How does the presence of water figure in besides increasing the rate of heat transfer? What is the level of humidity in a regular oven in different situations? How does it compare to a CSO? The Gaggenau use and care manual gives some insight into this. See the chart above. https://media3.gaggenau.com/Documents/9000880517_J.pdf Unless you have some way to measure humidity in the oven and adjust the amount of steam injected, the percentages are just names of settings for how much steam is released. I think it is more of a convenience than control. Control is some more and a lot. I don't believe there is any feedback mechanism to add control like you have for temperature. 80% setting may really be close to 100% of saturation, so is there a real functional difference between 80 and 100? They say that the 30% setting is the amount of humidity a cake releases while baking with the vent closed, no additional steam is released by the oven. How much more vapor is released while cooking something like a chicken, especially if it has drippings underneath evaporating? O% setting is whatever intrinsic humidity is provided by the food cooking minus what is vented out with the vent open. I don't know if it is actively ventilated. I'm sure these actual percentages vary pretty significantly. How would humidity vary in an electric oven (very small vent) vs a gas oven (big vent)? "With conventional oven, you can't start heating the surface until it has started drying out. That probably explains why everybody raves about juicy crispy roast chicken from a CSO" Juiciness of the chicken is determined by the end temperature of the meat rather than a little superficial dryness. The temperature probe is what is responsible for that. You can submerge a chicken in a pot of water and boil it dry. This is a pretty good article that talks about this. "The higher the internal temp the meat achieves, the more water it squeezes out and the drier it gets. In general, most meats are juiciest and most tender when cooked to medium rare, 130 to 135°F internal temperature." https://amazingribs.com/more-technique-and-science/more-cooking-science/basic-meat-science-cooks Whatever drying you have initially is very superficial and you will need to have it in cooking a chicken one way or another to get crispiness and browning. There are techniques to blow fans on chickens to dry the skin out before cooking so it will be crispy. Check out this technique using a hair dryer. http://mytartare.com/tip-blow-dry-chicken/ When a chicken cooks, the steam or hot air only affects the outside as far as drying. The inside of the chicken is cooked by heat transfer from the outer layer of chicken next to it. Almost every convection oven advertises juicy chicken with a crispy skin as a selling point. Cooking chicken is a balance in heat transfer and drying to get the perfect 165F end temp internally along with browning and crispiness no matter how heat is applied. Sous vide brings the meat up to the perfect temperature by cooking with a very low gradient of heat, and then super intense heat to brown. With a combi oven, the chicken is cooked by steaming but to get browning, you have to get drying. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f3qQh3DHDGA Baked goods are different from meat as far as the way they react to heat and steam. Sort of a side issue I noticed is that foods that have more fat seem to brown even in the presence of steam. Plllog here has talked about how chicken browns, being steamed at the end of roasting. Pie crust creates steam and it browns while baking. I think with the chicken, you have a layer of fat on the outside of the chicken skin from basting or fat being released during cooking. As the skin heats, moisture reaches the boiling point and turns into steam. As it rapidly expands, it goes through the fat but the fat acts as a barrier to it coming back onto the skin. You have drying that way. There the are probably a hundred more effects that are not being considered. Another interesting comparison is a steam assist like Thermador/KA vs moisture assist like Capital vs the CSO....See MoreNeed recipes and ideas for DD's new Breville Smart Air Oven
Comments (10)Ann_t is correct. Most new countertop ovens will bake steam, air-fry like your regular oven but may have some added fan or low settings for dehydrating, etc. All ovens are different so watch it. Don't watch the timer. 20 years ago it was the toaster oven, countertop . These new larger ovens are no different using a smaller heat box and smaller meals more efficient. These more efficient ovens are the 'in-betwinnie' of a basic toaster oven and the massive free standing oven w/cooktop. My parents use their oven maybe twice a year. I have none of it or need it here in NY, but am paying attention as one of the varieties will be purchased for my beach home. I have a wood fired cook stove and could use an alternative side oven/countertop. (renovation needs to happen soon). I would rather have it on a shelf above the counter. I replaced a 24" 70's double wall oven with an electric all glass side door at eye level, and a steam oven below. Broiler is kick a++ on low and I can serve thanksgiving for 20 no problem. It can be a dance at times but for every day it is a perfect combo. My oven is my toaster, and every day roaster being a smaller footprint. Eye level is so nice and side door swing is easy in and out. Counter space is free of appliances. High heat is 500, low starts at 150 so great for dehydrating small batches as well. Have not had a bend-over behemoth oven for 20 years and do not miss that. What I dislike about 'air frying' using packaged previously frozen fried foods is the horrid bad habits of junk foods. Nancylane is using it with fresh ingredients to possibly replace a diet that likes fried foods. Fine for a treat less 'fried'....See Morejane2000
8 years agoJacqueline Griffith
8 months agolast modified: 8 months ago
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