There are immature people everywhere. Some are in college.

This isn't new behavior. There were kids like that when I was in college. They can be a huge distraction. The problem with college is that all kids are directed to go to college. Not all kids belong there for various reasons. Some of these kids have never had to be responsible for themselves or have been so controlled that they can't handle it. Some parents basically encourage the behavior by over-funding the experience.

I can only speak for the upscale town I live in. Going to the best college is encouraged. Not what is the best college for you. But, what will make the high school look good when they print the list of where all the seniors are headed.

It's hard not to get swept up in the fray. The kids are all comparing notes, who got in, where, who didn't etc? Extremely stressful.

Some are just not ready for the commitment. Many transfer after the first semester. This happened to my oldest. She left a top tier school and made a 360 to a technical fashion school.

My youngest picked the school that was right for her, stayed and had a positive experience.

This generation is more immature, but also very self focused. They just don't want to work at a job, they want it to have meaning.

Don't overlook the fact that to some extent, these student failures are also parenting failures.

Yes, many kids do take college seriously. And that doesn't require spending nights and weekends in the library, there's plenty of time available for play as well as work. Without proper guidance, planning, and expectation setting, failure is never too far away.

College is where "kids" first encounter true adult accountability - what they do or don't do has real consequences and affects the rest of their lives.

I think stress had a lot to do with our niece withdrawing. Her parents were insanely into where their kids went to college. It seemed to absolutely consume them and become part of their identity (what college their kids went to).

We have a great program in my state, where if you go to community college for the first 2 years, you are guaranteed admission to a state college for years 3&4.

What's "screwed the pooch??????" And talking about a college education! Odd.

Today's kids are spoiled and many think the sun rises and sets on them. Like every kid on the T ball team getting a trophy. There is no failure. So their expectations are high that this will continue in their privileged lives. My grandson goes to a high end public school where 98 % go to college . And many are indeed snobby where their classmates are heading.

"Today's kids are spoiled and many think the sun rises and sets on them."

You're describing parenting failures. Plenty of kids are raised with financial and societal advantages from their families that others don't have but aren't spoiled and don't have "special little snowflake" complexes.

I agree with maddielee

Well, the reason I posted is because it seems everyone I know with kids of college age are experiencing failures on different levels. Thus, my inquiry.

Since most colleges are still full, students must still be attending them.

A student changing school, or delaying graduation should not be considered a failure.

Having high school age/college attending grandchildren, knowing many of their friends, I promise that most are still serious students. And all round good people.

When students begin college, even though they may be considered "adults," they are still very young, often naïve.

In my community, some kids are spoiled. However, academic expectations are high, and most work hard, many get into top schools and excel there too. I believe the majority of college students succeed in school and life. We mostly hear about the failures.

Sometimes college students don't do well because they are not well prepared by their high schools. Mimi, is there any explanation for your nephew's weak first semester? If it's not for him, maybe he should withdraw and go to community college until he finds his way. Our son started at a CC to test his possible major, and it saved us a bundle.

I don't believe in free college. It's worth something. Both my kids worked during college and got some scholarships too.

I can truly say that my DD, and my nieces and nephews, were not spoiled. They had jobs in high school, had to do chores, got good grades, were involved in extracurriculars (but the ECs were NOT prioritized over home responsibilities). None of them had their own car, a big allowance, etc etc. And they were all aware of the financial sacrifice their parents were making to pay tuition.

And yet, of the 4 that have gone to college (all easily admitted to good schools), only 1 (the middle one) has graduated. They other three only made it 2 years at most.

They lacked a strong goal for their education, for one thing. Although they all graduated with honors from one of the (supposedly) best school systems in the state, they were woefully underprepared in study skills and initiative for the schools they attended. They also all seem to have this idea that higher education is not of that much value in today's economy (I keep hearing from them how there are no jobs for college grads, the expense doesn't pay off, no one in their generation can afford to buy houses IF they are fortunate enough to have a career etc ) ---- in other words, they have internalized the doom and gloom, everybody is a victim, the world is rigged against the little guy rhetoric that has been in the major media for the past 2 decades even though they have opposite models in their parents. When I point out that the vast majority of the homeowners in my suburban neighborhood are just the same age as the 2 oldest (32 and 30) it gets shrugged off with a "but everybody knows that's how it is" denial of reality -- because that is what they read on the internet!!!

I wonder how much the pervasiveness of social media has to do with it. Or, perhaps, just the way the internet dominates their lives -- virtual reality versus real reality.

Mimi, is there any explanation for your nephew's weak first semester? If it's not for him, maybe he should withdraw and go to community college until he finds his way. Our son started at a CC to test his possible major, and it saved us a bundle.

I don't believe in free college. It's worth something. Both my kids worked during college and got some scholarships too.

*****

I take it you're not "feeling the Bern"? ;-)

My nephew had a challenging schedule his first semester and he did well with good grades. Now, my brother tells me he's not as enthused. I think he wants to go to school in the city.

I think the British custom of a gap year is a good idea. They get a lot of stuff out of their systems and also have an extra year deciding what they want to do. They can work, volunteer or travel if the family's finances can stand it. I also think some can benefit from going to a less expensive junior college to get the basic courses out of the way and also maybe lead them into the field they're interested in. Then they can go on to a regular college to get their degree.

We, in Ontario dropped grade 13 a number of years ago. Since high school is often finished at age 17, a lot of kids do a "victory lap". They can take a few extra courses to get more credits to go into college/university, or they take a year off and work, travel, etc, then go on to further their education. 17 is young, for a lot of kids to be in university far from home, for example.

Of course not all kids today are spoiled, but the praise heaped on them can be excessive as in giving trophies to everyone for participation. My grandkids' parents were diligent about saving for their kids college. Granddaughter graduated with honors from a prestigious university. What is she doing? She's a manager of a country club and wants to be a realtor. So much for her bachelor of arts degree. As I said, the boy almost has a free ride to Vermont , but is impressed with his ivy schools acceptances although that would impose a high debt. .

It doesn't sound any different than when I was in college umpteen years ago. The big difference is the price of attending even a local public university (i.e., no out of state tuition). There are the kids who aren't ready, the kids who aren't serious, the kids who have never been allowed to schedule themselves before and don't know what to do with themselves, the kids who think the whole thing is about partying on Dad's dime, the kids who are overwhelmed by an amount of work that they never faced in high school, the kids who don't know how to make friends, the kids who don't know how to do their laundry, etc.

And there are the kids who are eager to learn as much as they can, the kids who petition to take more classes because they want it all now, the kids who work full time jobs to help support their families while taking a full load, the kids who took off a year working a really onerous job so they wouldn't have to take out loans, the kids who often as not sleep in the library because they don't want to leave until they feel they've mastered the material, the kids who are in counseling because they're taking their academic performance too seriously and need to learn work/life balance and how to be satisfied with achievable goals, the kids who have fun half the night then roll bleary into class but get all their work done and learn the material, the kids who need to work hard for their successes and always have their noses in their books.

There are many more types. I don't think the types change much over time.

I do think we pay more attention when our friends look for emotional support because their kids are struggling or behaving badly, than when a friend grouses that it took her more than an hour to convince Janey that her life wouldn't be ruined because she was going to have to wear the obligatory pink dress even though she looks so awful in that particular color and everyone was going to think she was a sow, but school is great, she's been seeing a nice boy, her grades are fine, and she's actually becoming educated.

Many of the parents in our area do push their kids to university - whether or not they belong or want to go. I went to university right out of high school because I didn't know there were other options. I went to a high level all academic high school where everyone, it was assumed went onto university. If I had known there were other options such as taking a year out, or traveling I may have done so. I don't know.

When my kids were in high school the only rule we had was that our kids had to do first year right after high school and they could do it at our local college, which was 10 minutes away, if they wanted. We wanted them to get first year English, their science requirements and their language requirements and then a couple of electives of their choice out of the way. Then, take a year out, travel, work whatever or continue onto a school and program of their choice. Both kids, at different points, did take a year out (one of them at our very strong suggestion) and there is nothing wrong with that.

They were always told that they would have to do some sort of schooling or training after high school because Grade 12 just isn't enough anymore. They had to decide whether it be university or a trade or a technical college. But push kids to where they don;t want to be just so you can brag about them - no. It isn't my life, it's theirs.

I read about these kids applying to 6-10 universities and then sitting and waiting for the acceptance or rejection and I feel so sorry for them.

Our niece and nephews have and will be doing a blistering 1+ years of college touring.

The students will take college a lot more seriously if they have some "skin in the game". I am certainly not opposed to parents helping with college costs, but think the students should work as hard as they can get to whatever scholarship might be available. It is amazing how many go unused. Also, working at some job, not only provides a bit of money, but teaches responsibility and accountability.

I graduated from high school in 1964. My best friend got a full scholarship to an out of state college. She flunked out. Her parents were very, very strict with her, and once she was away from them, she became very wild.

I'm a university professor and have seen them come and go for over 30 years now. Increasingly, college is just like high school for many, many students: a "mandatory" right of passage to get a good job or have a career but just something that teaches what should have been taught in high school. That is, there's been a whole lot of "dummying down" due to the fact that high schools are so poor: kids come in knowing little, especially in the increasingly devalued liberal arts--history, literature, political science, etc. There's an awful lot of anti-intellectualism among young people, too, that is really sad. Mine is a large private midwestern university.

Cassandra- thank you for your insight. I guess it could be that college is overwhelming on so many levels these days.

Some, if not all, of the Ivies, nowadays, as well as other high priced colleges, have adopted a need neutral format, where they accept the students without looking at their financials, and then provide them with full or partial support as needed. There still is a middle class squeeze in there where the tables of what parents can provide and real life don't quite match for some, but in general the system usually means that they aren't more expensive than many other options. They also usually require that the students contribute a few thousand dollars by their own work, and make work-study and other jobs available for the purpose. I think trust fund babies can just send a check instead, but it's worthy that they try to get the kids to work and make financial contributions toward their educations.

Most of the need-blind colleges are private. Many well-endowed schools, not just Ivies but many others and more private than public ones, offer full aid packages with no loan component.

A number of people I know have "failure to launch kids", who as adults still live in their parents' homes and may or may not be pursuing a viable career. Me, I was on my own at my first opportunity and we made it clear to our kids that their rooms wouldn't be available for their use after college other than for visits. Whether the number of millennials who seem to not be progressing into independent adulthood is greater or less than what would have been seen among my peer group some decades ago is something I don't know.

It's nothing new. We just hear about the failures more than the successes because they are more interesting to talk/rant about, especially in this culture of oversharing everything. I agree that our culture pushes college more than it should. Not everyone is meant for college, and that's okay.

The top schools have been need-blind for a while. I received an extremely generous package, including work study, and was able to attend a $50k a year school for very little. I also worked my butt off to graduate in 3 years to save even more money. I definitely did notice a difference in effort between the students who were paying for part of their education and those who had parents paying the entire thing.

We plan to pay for college for our kids but there will be restrictions on major and be dependent on grades/effort.

My DS is a college freshman. I'm proud to say that he earned a 4.0 his first semester, and is on his way to a repeat second semester. He is bright, but not a genius. He works very hard for his grades. He is very disciplined about his studies, but still finds plenty of time for the gym, friends, and intramurals, too. He came from a very vigorous high school. My motto was always, "you don't have to be the best, you have to be your best." I guess it stuck. We feel very lucky.

As an aside, we are paying for 100% of his schooling, however, it comes with expectations of effort on his part. During the summer he works about 30 hours per week.

I don't know the term "need-blind". What does it mean?

When I was in university in the early 70's I worked part-time marking 3rd year marketing papers in the business faculty (my major). There were weekly assignments and there were 2 kids whose papers, after 1 month of school, I refused to mark because their writing and command of the English language was so poor. I don't know how they graduated from English 12, never mind 1st year English which was a requirement, and then got accepted into the business school. The prof took it over. Sounds like some things never change.

Need-blind means that the colleges don't consider a family's financial situation when making the admission decision, and if a student is accepted, the college will give them financial aid if it's needed. In schools that aren't need-blind, the admissions office can consider whether a student would pay full tuition or would require money from them to attend, and factor that into their acceptances.

College used to be something that one chose to work towards. Now it's become just the next step after high school. Some kids would be better off in vocational schools. It's insane that universities have remedial programs. That should be done at the community colleges. High schools used to track students. College prep and general ed. You were either ready for college academically or you were not.

The flip side is the helicopter parents who make getting good grades their child's job. No social /real life skills other than maybe activities that would look good on the college application. Then those kids go wild at their first taste of freedom. Know a lot of people who did poorly in college that entered with full academic scholarships.

When our oldest went to our state's public U he sewed his oats first semester and it showed in his grades. We told him if he didn't buckle down second semester he'd be moving back home and attending the local junior college. That's all it took. He did well from there on out.

DD went to an out of state public U and was a serious student from the get go. she went on to get her master's there as well.

The youngest probably wasn't quite ready to leave the nest but at the time he wanted a very specialized degree not offered at many colleges. He stuck it out and graduated, even though he decided halfway through he didn't want a career in his major.

All three got summer jobs and campus jobs here and there. All are employed in their chosen fields and living on their own...oldest is married.

Well, seems that they suddenly have freedom and no parents and they go crazy, many drugs and sex and alcohol and all kinds of things. My brother went to university and first year he got his marks at christmas and he didn't dig down to study and almost flunked out, he had scholarship with the company my dad worked for and my dad basically told him that he would have lost his scholarship and then pay for it himself. And so he dug down deep and graduated. But he did stay out way too late and all kinds of things and they need guidance and made sure they are on the right path as they are young and do go wild. kathy

It seems that every campus has party animals and these get noticed. There are plenty students who are more serious, but these do not get in the news or attract a lot of public attention; They just keep plodding on toward their goal. Maybe that's the difference: goal! One needs a goal to focus on to keep going in college. The demands and work load are high. One needs a goal to keep motivated.

Some kids are still kids and not ready for college. I recall my junior year at the University of Illinois at Champagne. I entered as a Junior in engineering. The first week of full classes, a Freshman for New York went crazy. At 3 AM, he was running back and forth operating the light switches at each end of the hallway. The RA collared him and asked what he was doing. He replied, "Testing the light switches." His eyes were glazed and he did not know where he was at. After quick trip to the infirmary, he was sent home. Diagnosis: Disorientation by stress. it was his first time away from home.

My parents method seemed harsh to me at the time, but it proved quite successful and I intend on (mostly) repeating it with my own children.

I was told from an early age that once I graduated high school I had to either move out or, if I was attending college, I had a room. If I wasn't going to attend college then I would be expected to pay rent. Furthermore, once I made the decision to move out, I would not be allowed to move back in under any circumstances. There was no safety net, I had to make it or break it on my own.

They would also not pay for any college so if I wanted that, I had to either excel in my grades and apply for grants and scholarships or I had to work to pay my way or get loans.

Most people I've told this to feel it was overly harsh, bordering on cruelty to basically tell an 18 year old that they were in charge of their life. It was very much a tough love mentality BUT, it's not like it was suddenly sprung on me at the last minute. (THAT would be cruel in my eyes)

My parents spent YEARS not only driving home the message but ALSO teaching my brother and I that nothing in life is free and if you want something, you had better be prepared to work for it. They also taught us how to cook, clean, manage our finances, etc.

We both had jobs during high school, balancing school, work and extracurricular activities.

I chose to move out 2 weeks after I graduated high school due to an acrimonious relationship with my parents. My brother chose to live at home while attending college.

We are both successful adults with no debt from schooling.

The only other real world examples I have to go off of are my friends and my husband.

My husband was actively discouraged from working while in school because "you should focus on school!!" (Yeah, because real life and bills will just stop for you to focus on only one aspect of life). We spent years paying off his student loans which were acquired because of the "only focus on school" mentality that his parents instilled in him. Real life doesn't work that way and the sooner you learn that lesson, the better.

My closest friends came from much wealthier families than I did and they all screwed around and wasted their parents money for a few years before getting their acts together.

One figured it out soon enough that she was able to finish college and get her degree before the cash flow stopped.

The other took a bit longer and by the time she had her head on straight, she had burned through all the money her parents had set aside for her education.

She is a very skilled and competent lawyer now, but she has almost 200K in student loan debt.

I don't really blame either of them. It was their parents fault. Their parents didn't prepare them to be adults; they treated them like kids and mommy and daddy took care of their problems.

Children aren't forever children; they are future adults. Talk to them, teach them and prepare them for that role because that is the role they will have for the vast majority of their lives.

This is a situation where there are no "givens". Every young person will have a different story and different set of circumstances. At least the ones I know. Broad-sweeping generalities about a class of people will always miss the mark. No, we weren't all "hippies" back in the 60's and 70's; and colleges and universities can't all be filled with kids who aren't "serious" today.

Our 20-year old granddaughter is an amazing example. She is the only person I know who will actually have a substantial amount of money in her savings account when she leaves college (which costs around $45,000 a year tuition), rather than a substantial amount of debt, and will have worked hard and sacrificed a lot to get her education.

She was born serious about education, think Rory of the TV show "Gilmore Girls", and I'm sure she's not alone. She took her first college math class when she was in the 8th grade and subsequent college classes after that in high school. She gave up her last two years of high school (all that teenage fun, prom, soccer - where she lettered her freshman and sophomore year, friends and social life), and was accepted to a special State program where she got her 1st year of college free while simultaneously taking her last two years of high school. That's a decision she made when she was in her second year of high school. So she attended a college her last two years of high school - full time - not a high school - and also completed her freshman year of college those two years.

Then she moved from that college to a private college across the state, and has a full scholarship, her college fund her parent's saved for her - basically untouched - her private savings from working summers and during high school, as well as the remainder of her (active duty) father's G.I. Bill as a 27-year Army Officer. On top of that, she also works part time, tutors students, and as a sophomore directs a "gaggle" of freshman women.

So yes, there are some kids who take college seriously these days.

I was told this weekend 36% of women between 19 and 36 are living in their parents basement. Failure to launch. Yes the party crowd has always been there. Yes incoming freshman are not as well prepared socially or intellectually for college. Yes the sheer EXPENSE makes college not a place to "find yourself". I thought the idea of putting off college until 21 was always a GREAT idea. 40 years later I still do but see the impracticality. Life happens,marriage and kids get in the way. I agree this comes down to poor parenting. "Skin in the game" makes ALL the difference. There is a fine balance here--get them to stay but don't make it IMPOSSIBLE for them to pay their bills. We really need to move away from the idea that at 18 they are adults. Very few are. Most are teenagers and will make all the poor decisions society allows them to, and now society is giving the a play ground that will put them in debt through their 30s. Best life lesson I ever had was WORK. High School jobs, low pay, crappy hours, BORING AS HELL work. Grows you up faster than anything else. Gap year. WORK year. You don't find anyone who will take you--let the county place you..but you will WORK , yep it could cure a lot of ills. PS: both DH and I are college graduates. We have three children all graduating with in four years, top of their classes, and the frustrations posted here they too saw and endured in their peers.

Not all kids are spoiled but at the same time I don't believe that kids are no more spoiled now than ever. I could go into detail but no need to do that. People used to value a college education but no so much anymore. I found out quickly that a college education, excepting of course medical fields or the like, are not advantageous when hiring people. Just like all-to-many come out of high school unable to read, write or do basic math, the same is true for college. I worked for school districts for many years. Teachers, supposedly college "educated" showed a surprising number who couldn't write well, and had atrocious grammar and math "skills". It was an appalling wake up call to the value of a degree. Again, not applicable to all but to a surprising number. Experience is still the best education in my opinion. A degree in and of itself does not make a person competent. It certainly doesn't make someone smart. Thinking back over my experiences I fired more people (proportionately) with college education due to incompetence than people with vo-tech, high school or less. It was interesting over my careers to see how the attitude of people doing the hiring and the people themselves changed. Younger years if an interviewer had a degree they were quite snobbish that you must have one or you're nothing. As I aged, I saw a change in this attitude. And of course when I hired, degrees meant less to me than to some. Certainly a degree is valuable in certain areas, but the person's true education is far more important to me than their (as my dad used to put it) "schooling", meaning just that they went to school.

And I don't want to go into the unpaid student loans topic.

There are many reasons for a college education. You become aware and open to ideas and subjects that you would never encounter in your own environment. You also become more open minded.

I went to college in the 70's. I took a sociology class and one of the topics was transgender! I don't think I would have the understanding I do now if not for the information I learned in that class. Up close and personal.

When my older sister graduated from college, a degree meant something. Even though she was a French major, she decided not to teach and instead was hired immediately at a nationwide insurance company. (No experience, just her degree!)

When I graduated college, it was apparent to me that I would have to go on to grad school for specialized training.

On the job training is terrific. My youngest has learned marketing and social media on the job and is now pursuing this as her career. Nothing to do with what her major in college was.

College is only a mistake if you can't afford it and go into debt. A good friend's daughter was the valedictorian of her class. She did not get into her first choice which was Yale. Her parent's felt that since she did not get into this ivy league, she should go to a "cheaper" school. She would not consider this. (She probably wanted to go to school with peers, people as smart as herself. At the same time too, I think she wanted to feel proud to stay I am going to....) She graduated from Georgetown and is still paying off her student loans. She now feels she would have done things differently.

We need people to go into technical and vocational areas. People should feel proud that they are learning a trade.

My rules are simple: Take a full load (one is going part time while working a full time job--a full load for her is two courses). Pass all your classes. If you start your final year, you must finish your degree, or if a vocational course, get your license. So far, so good.