Tempered Glass logo

11 years ago

We just installed three sets of 15 light french doors. They came pre-hung and pre-primed. After letting the trim paint harden for two weeks as suggested by the painter...we just began cleaning the windows to find there is a "tempered glass logo" on each pane of the glass! I have tried to take it off with a razor, acetone, and mineral spirits and have come to the conclusion that they are etched in the glass! I would like to know if anyone has ever come across this? I would think it is a mistake by the manufacturer. No one caught it until this week because the glass panes were protected with plastic on each side and spray primed so you could not see the glass. I am very upset as we paid big $ to have them painted (sprayed) and the results are beautiful! I have never seen logos on each window pane ever in a french door! Has anyone else?

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kcegla

4 years ago

It's downright ridiculous that builders and suppliers of doors do not provide this info to consumers when purchasing a french door with true divided lite. They need to let us know up front their will be logos on each pane of glass. Otherwise I would look for simulated divided lites to just get one stupid tempered logo at the bottom. Waste of money on my french door that I know have to replace with a custom door or simulated divided lite which is also proving hard to find for an interior french door. The govt is freaking stupid and has ruined the french door industry because of this law. There are a million better ways to denote or keep track of tempered glass. Or hey - since it's the law and everything has to be tempered anyway we don't even need to designate it as such. No idea how they even thought this was even acceptable. Im furious and outraged right now and wasted money. Even more furious with the supplier for not even telling me about it and acting like it's my fault I should have known. How would I know there would be logos on each pane of glass when I am not in the door or glass industry. So stupid!

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Comments (59)

MrsD
9 years ago
Oh I wish he would have requested the sticker. That's probably what anderson windows do because I don't see anything on my big windows in great room and I know they had to be tempered.
User
8 years ago
MrsD, where do you see the word "sticker"?

Big is a relative term and is not a reason a window needs to be tempered. If you can't find the permanently etched designation on the glass, then it is not tempered. The whole point of it is so that someone can't claim that glass is tempered when it is not. "We just took off the sticker" is NOT a possible response. What makes you "know" that your big window had to be tempered?
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Carolemed, You have asked some very interesting questions - I will attempt to address them all, but my answer may wander a bit because of how the various questions and answers interrelate...here goes and I hope it makes sense. And, if you don'd mind my asking, who is the window manufacturer? You are completely correct that window glass surfaces are numbered from 1 (outside of the exterior lite) to 4 (outside of the interior lite). Your description of logo locations is excellent and makes it easy to picture your IG lay-up. But, there is no inherent "surface 2" or "surface 4", it all depends on how the glass is installed in the IG unit. You cannot "turn around" the inner lite to put surface 4 to the inside of the IG and surface 3 to the outside - still very nice description. Although manufacturers will typically locate the tempered logo's on surface 2 and surface 4, there is really no requirement (other than the window company standards) that they do so so it is possible to end up with the logo on any of the four surfaces. There are a couple of possible issues in your situation, besides the scratched glass. First, and as you considered in your first post, can the panes be installed reversed on the IG? Technically, there is no "right side" or "wrong side" to tempered glass and it makes no particular difference which way they are installed on the spacer to make the IG unit - unless one of those panes has a LowE coating - then in that case it can make all the difference in the world how the lite with the coating is installed. If it's a hardcoat LowE coating then it may be a bit less critical since hardcoat coatings can be exposed, but if it's a softcoat LowE then the coating must be installed between the lites in the IG unit or it WILL scratch. Pretty much anything that touches it has the potential to scratch the exposed coating. You might take a dime and rub one corner of the glass surface. If it scratches, then I would bet dollars to donuts that you have an exposed coating. Another suggestion: when it is dark, hold an open flame (candle, lighter, etc) near the center of the window glass. You should see three reflections in the glass if it has a LowE coating - if it doesn't then you will see only two reflections. The center reflection of the three should be a different color than the two reflections flanking it. The center reflection will wshow the LowE coating if it was installed inside the IGU. Next (assuming the center reflection is the different colored one), is the center reflection closer to the inner flame or the outer flame? If it is closer to the outer flame then the coating is on surface 2. If it is closer to the inner flame reflection then it is on surface 3...did the manufacturer specify the coating location anywhere in the paperwork? The reason I am asking these questions is because I am wondering if the IG was installed in the window sash in reverse...not that the panes were installed into the IGU backwards (which would only be an issue if there was a LowE coating), but if the IG was installed backwards - and the coating is inside the IG as it should be) then you could have an issue with the coating being on the wrong surface within the IG itself. Much more often than not, the coating should be on surface 2 for maximum year-around thermal performance. If the coating is on surface 3 then you could have a fairly significant performance degradation in summer. While it shouldn't be a problem in cold weather (heating season), in summer much of the performance of the LowE coating depends on it being on the outer lite. If the IGU is installed in the window so that the coating is on surface 3.... Okay, back to the main topic. The link that Ann posted is to a site hosted by a man named Dan Fields. Mr. Fields is a window cleaner who has decided to take on the entire glass and window industry because of (in his words) defective tempered glass. Mr. Fields certainly has every right to defend his claim that it is his God-given right to use razor blade scrapers to clean windows even thought the entire glass industry may disagree with his opinion. Mr. Fields also has on one of his websites a waiver that he suggests window cleaners use to get homeowners to sign-off on the window cleaner's use of the scraper in the event that the window or door glass is scratched. Mr. Fields also brags on his site how he has quite literally damaged many windows and doors - knowing that he was doing so - but that he was not liable for that damage since he had the signed waiver in hand. Mind you that he KNOWS that he is scratching the glass, yet he continues to do so - window after window - because it is not his problem. And it makes his point - he has that God-given right to use his scraper on the glass whether it causes problems or not. He uses the terms "defective" and "low quality" throughout his sites, but with the only reference to "defective" and "low quality" relating solely to the window cleaner's use of a scraper and in no way to the actual quality of the glass itself - and there are different levels of quality in glass having nothing to do with a window cleaner's convenience. He does have a point that "fines" (the surface debris he discusses), will scratch glass when it is cleaned with a scraper. But, so will sand, and mortar, and concrete, and stucco, and anything else that has any amount of abrasive that gets trapped by the metal blade. Fines (microscopic surface glass dust and debris) are a fact of life when dealing with tempered glass. All tempered glass has fines - and while some does have more than others - he actually has a point there - fines are not a problem so long as the glass isn't scraped with a metal blade scraper. None of which helps your situation since you have scratched glass....and how it got there is now secondary to getting it resolved. Which brings up the next point or two. First, if the LowE (softcoat) is on an exposed surface - no problem because the window company made a major mistake and needs to change the IG for a new one; assuming you have a softcoat coating; which is about 85% of LowE used in the residential market. A hardcoat can be left exposed, and it can be on surface 4, but a scraper blade will scratch the hardcoat coating as well. Second, if the LowE is on the "wrong" surface - but inside the IG - then again you may have a definite mode of contention with the window company since the performance of the IGU will suffer as it was constructed and while you may (or may not) have to battle a bit for it, you can claim that they need to fix their mistake (which may mean simply that they will turn the same IG around in the sash - but you never can tell). And finally, while scratching the surface of the glass can potentially cause a weak spot, the scratches caused by using a scraper tend to be very fine (no pun intended) and are not likely to be a problem - other than aesthetic. If you end up keeping the glass but getting the scatches removed, there are a couple of systems on the market for removing scratches from glass (in fact, Mr Fields is a distributor for one brand - can you spell potential conflict-of-interest)? Anyway, some of the systems works really well at removing scratches without distorting glass. While some other systems result in unacceptable distortion to the glass surface. Avoid systems that use cerium oxide, trizac, or other abrasives since systems using those materials may be much more likely to distort glass, especially when used by someone who isn't really good at it, and you may not be happy with the results. And if you wouldn't mind keeping us posted (again, no pun intended) on your progress...good luck!
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MrsD
8 years ago
My window that is so close to the floor, my contractor said is tempered. But the etched in writing is not in white, which is probably why I don't see it or maybe it is up high. But I know that some of the windows in my house are tempered as to follow code. I'm fine I'll live with it on these cabinets. Another blog I was reading, someone stated that sometimes it is a sticker. That is where I got that from. Again, that is just going from what someone else online said....I am not saying that I know that for sure. Another person in a blog said that you can request tempered glass not have the etching in it. Again I don't know and it is too late anyhow. I was just reaching for answer to the process to maybe remove this. Thanks!
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
That is why I gave you the actual code, word for word up there ;). So you can quit listening to other people's made up versions. Sure, you could order tempered glass without a label, or designation marking, but then it wouldn't meet code any more than a standard piece of glass.

HOWEVER,

Furniture is generally not within the purview of the IRC

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec008.htm?bu2=undefined

But, once the label is on there, it is supposed to be impossible to remove :-/
Rick
8 years ago
We just did the same and discovered it as well. Its ridiculous and bothers me also. Probably the result of some government safety committee requiring it on each pane.
Lori
8 years ago
So upset!!! Just had beautiful doors with 12 panes of glass put in & each has this label!!! Looks so bad...it's all I see when looking at the beautiful doors
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Focus on the fact that when your child slips and falls and breaks that glass door, there won't be a severed artery with you hoping to make it to the hospital in time. If the glass weren't permanently marked, you can bet some cheap sob somewhere would put in plain glass and then you would get that severed artery. You've got princess and the pea first world ''problems''.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
What is done is according to building codes. Too late for some, but NC allows you to get a certificate from the glass supplier that states that the glass is tempered. You have to know this in advance and know whether your local codes would allow. Would have to ask for it up front.
Diane Campbell
7 years ago
Here are mine!! Same situation. Big etched in stamp on each panel. Pisses me off!
susanalanandwrigley
7 years ago
Diane when I look at your picture of the doors (not the detail of the etching), I don't see the etching at all. I guarantee your guests and anyone not looking will not notice the etching, and you will soon no longer notice it every day either. Doors are lovely.
markus43
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Mrs D ... I hope you were able to work this out. It IS possible to order tempered glass without a "bug", or with the bug placed at the extreme adge. This option puts the installation "out of compliance" for the ability for a visual review, whether by a prospective home buyer or maybe a Fire Marshall etc who have the authority to make you replace the glass back to glass with the logo, or at least remove the glass stop to show the bug.

Some door manufacturers may do this, but will require you to sign a waiver stating that you accept all liability.

Technically, you would not be out of compliance for the strength of the glass if it is tempered, but proving it is tempered would be difficult....unless you break it and the breakage is consistent with tempered glass (little pieces).

You might be able to find a local glazier (glass shop) that will order and install new glass. Just know that you will need to sign waivers and you will be subject to any future inspection requirements.
Rob Straub
7 years ago
You must sign the waver having no logos or just one for however many parts of glass there is in its size .The person stamping logos while loading the glass , a majority of the time has no idea what the glass will be used for.
bettyv121
7 years ago
Wish I would have read this blog before getting my frobt door. It has 16 panes of true divided tempured glass and each pane is etched inside and out with the tempured glass info so I have a total of 32 stamps. The stamps have 6 lines of info so they are very visible. Has anyone come up with any ideas of how to cover them or make them more subtle?
Marybeth Klink
6 years ago
Well, I received the info I was looking for on this blog. Guess I'll live with the 20 stamps (on each pane) of my french doors. And my contractor won't even have to listen to me whine because I see it's the government "helping" us again!
Ed Tantamount
5 years ago
I don't mind the regulation of the tempered glass, but who is the incompetent designer that decided that this is how the information needs to be communicated? Given the use of a little brainpower, several better solutions could have been utilized. This one, is the worst.
Hayley Dziak
5 years ago
Seriously. It "bugs" me on the daily! Our beautiful historical home looks cheap because of these emblems on every pane of glass. I had no idea as my windows and doors came with the glass covered for paint as well. It is such a disappointment after spending a significantly higher amount of money to match the existing windows in our 100+ year old home. If anyone has any advice on how to remove these, please share. I'll keep one to abide by the law, which is absurd. 100s of them are ridiculous and so upsetting!
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
5 years ago
They are required to be etched into the glass and not removable. Liberal politics at it's finest!
Marlene Johnson
5 years ago
We recently had a gorgeous stain grade wood entry door installed that we custom ordered. It is a ten lite door with the tempered glass stamped on every pane. It is not at all discreet but six very pronounced white lines of lettering and numbers etched in the glass. It looks hideous! The door is ruined. It is so noticeable that our son came over to see our new door and after viewing it asked us why we haven't removed the stickers! I have since done some research and have found out that when doing a remodel rather than new construction, one is able to request there be no bugs! Not sure if all companies do this but this one that I spoke with does it all the time if requested. Oh how we wish we would have been given the option at the time. On new construction however they cannot as it will not pass inspection.
Hayley Dziak
5 years ago
Isn't it the most devastating thing Marlene?! It really does ruin my day. Sounds petty, but after all the blood, sweat and tears put in with our remodel, it really is awful. Dumbest rule ever! I have 14 8 pane windows and 6 8 paned french doors. 4 french panels have double bugs!! It's ridiculous!
PRO
Haute Shoppe Studio
5 years ago
Just installed my new beautiful door today with 6 panes of glass. After cleaning the glass I feverishly tried to remove the 12 stamps on each corner. I was sure it was a mistake. I then panicked and went through the whole process on how the return was going to happen. Now I find out - it is not a mistake! How is this possible? Why was I not warned? I am shocked that anyone finds this acceptable. When the light is on in the evening - the stamps glow! Unacceptable - how about a single tiny logo.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
5 years ago
This regulation has been in place for MANY YEARS. It is not new - it is a given and it cannot be removable. Your government not only thinks it is acceptable - they think it is absolutely, positively necessary because our society is so litigious and people take no responsibility for their own actions (and the ultimate consequences). People sue over bumping into or walking through a glass door.
HU-828835825
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
For me its not that there are 5 lines of text per pane...its that it wasn't in the product discription. It truly is a visual flaw! I definitely would not have purchased them!
User
5 years ago
If you would not have purchased them, you would not have had the door or the window.
HU-828835825
5 years ago
I would have found doors with untempered glass.
User
5 years ago
last modified: 5 years ago
That could not have been installed. Tempered is required. Which is why it’s labeled for easy visual inspection to see if it complies with code.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
5 years ago
You can't purchase divided light doors without tempered glass. It is required. What you can do is purchase a single pane glass door and used false dividers on it and then there would only be one logo on the glass - which is also required to be tempered. But then you live with an imitation of divided lights instead of the real thing.
PRO
Haute Shoppe Studio
5 years ago
I even have a stamp on a small glass side table - unsightly for sure! There has to be another way!
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
5 years ago
Lobby your senators and representatives.
danatirsch
5 years ago
Just had a door installed...same thing
PRO
Pamela Love
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago
I just had the same experience, we did manage to take water and a sharp razor blade and soften the abnoxiousness of the oversized glowing white porcelain stamp, I am in full agreement that the legal jagon could be minimized to create a less obtrusive stamp. While I respect the concept, come on, we can do better.
Kenneth G Kaiser Jr
4 years ago
I order no logo tempered glass all the time, but it must be specified in your RFI. The labels that come on the glass identifies it as tempered glass, that's all the inspector needs to see.
straitshooter1000 .
4 years ago
My 8 foot french doors has a logo on each panel as well and looks totally cheap. When one purchases the doors all that needs to be done is a stamp on the wood on the side. It's RIDICULOUS and has nothing to do with anything other than control and law suits. I find it insulting. My next move is to make my own set of frenchdoors with TEMPERED GLASS that I know is there and not "vomited" all over the beauty of the doors.
Ellie Fredericks
4 years ago
I am absolutely heartbroken to find the etching on our beautiful new French doors - every single pane and extremely obvious - and no way to make them disappear. How can anyone think this is acceptable?
Dori McMurtrey
3 years ago
I just installed a new front door with 6 smoked glass windows. They have the tempered designation on each pane but the wording is crooked and reads backwards because of how the glass was installed. Is it legal to install the glass with the wording backwards?
kcegla
3 years ago
I worked with a company called Rogue Valley Doors and they special ordered a true divided lite French door without the tempered glass bugs in the glass. It’s tempered glass but they make it without the bugs showing. Took 6 weeks to get it but well worth the wait.
Sarah Thomas
3 years ago
Why do you find it amusing?
Sarah Thomas
3 years ago
I have the same problem I have just had French doors fitted at great expense with many panes of glass and they all have the logo, it looks hideous
HU-771934892
2 years ago
We just got our doors and writing on all windows. I’m upset.
HU-981054647
2 years ago
Thank republicans for making those logos required so contractors don't import cheap Chinese glass. Bunch of snowflakes in this thread, it's hilarious 😂
Christine Fowler
2 years ago
last modified: 2 years ago
I hate all these stickers. I am glad it is tempered for safety, but you only need to tell me once. They are literally etched into each of the 30 panes of glass.
PRO
Haute Shoppe Studio
2 years ago
We all feel your pain!
efleisher7
2 years ago
Ugh... in the same boat. I thought I was getting better doors by getting true divided lights. Glad I didn't bother trying nail polish remover since I would likely have damaged my paint in the process.
Kassandre Bernard
last year
Glad I found this thread to see that I am not alone. Just had doors installed and have this stamp on every pane. Had we been properly informed I would have gone with different glass or one full sheet with faux dividers and 4 stamps instead of 40.
efleisher7
last year
To be honest I don’t really notice it as much anymore
HU-616350464
last year
My contractor didn't know, and he said he spoke with the building material store, and they didn't know either, and they called the manufacturer, and they did know, but kept it a secret, I guess. smh ... I just had two sets of wood interior 15 true divided lite french door units installed and painted; glass panes all covered up nicely; after the painting and cleaning up I walk in to look at my beautiful new doors and to my horror I see that all 60 panes have a hideous tempered glass logo in the corner looking back at me. The door units are on the same interior wall and about 12ft apart separating the same two room levels. One set of glass pane logos are on the hinged side while the other set of door pane logos are on the knob side; they couldn't even make the logo placements consistant on these units. I'm sick over this and they're laughing all the way to the bank.
Jennifer Harper
last year
Ugh. I can’t unsee it. Wish I’d seen this thread or someone would have told me 🤦‍♀️
Alice Menne
5 months ago
Just had interior french doors installed. After all painting was finished, I wanted to clean each pane. To my disappointment, I discovered the etched logo on each pane. Looks ridiculous! I am sick to my stomach. Also had a new front door with side lights, a total of 12 window panes. Logo is only on the bottom windows. A french door in my breakfast room, with 15 window panes has two logos on the bottom. I don’t understand. 😩
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
5 months ago
If people hate this or want to complain about it, you need to contact the government entity in your state that controls building codes. There is nothing anyone else can do.
Amy Hogan
last month
I agree a million percent - just installed new French doors and they look like s*** with these glass etchings. Had I known this I would have done anything else than this. It looks so terrible and I’m upset my door vendor did not tell us this would be the case. Why not say true divided lights will not look historical they will look like safety billboards. Hate hate hate. What jackass came up with this stupidity?

Tempered Glass logo

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