I've been using it with good results for a few weeks. Pots and pans get cleaned but aren't perfectly spotless and shiny. It gets everything else-silverware, plates, glasses and coffee mugs perfectly clean and shiny. I don't use any baking/casserole dishes so can't comment on its effectiveness for those. I don't pre rinse anything either.

Doesn't it say trace amounts of phosphates something like 0.5..there is a phosphated laden one on Amazon also.

Thanks littlegreeny. This is how I feel about the Cascade Complete with Dawn powder I have been using. Things look and feel wonderful, but almost every load there is a pot or casserole dish that has some baked on crud. I gotta ask...How can you NOT use any baking or casserole dishes? Do you not cook? lol

Yes Mama it has trace amts. of Phosphates, but most products nowadays say 100% Phosphate Free.

Cooking is not my forte. I like to bake and I do mostly stovetop cooking-no casseroles in this house.

@ rococo...Finish Quantum tabs work amazingly well, BUT....both myself and Mitch had very bad, permanent etching on our glasses and glassware.

Do you use these tabs regularly?

"..Finish Quantum tabs work amazingly well, BUT....both myself and Mitch
had very bad, permanent etching on our glasses and glassware."

larsi- After we had a whole-house water softener (at previous home) installed, I used one-half the amount of suggested DW powder and still had etching on my glassware to the point it ruined them within a few years. Because our glassware was ruined, that was one of a few reasons we did not install one at this house. (21 years later at current house, no softener system, and my glassware has held up beautifully.)

I am not surprised the F-Q tabs etched your glassware because, IIRC, you now have a whole-house water softener.

Powder for the DW is probably your best bet, if you cannot cut a tab in half, and just use as little powder as possible to minimize the etching.

"Finish Quantum tabs clean the baked on stuff perfectly. I don't wash anything much by hand."

rococo -- same here with our Bosch DW and F-Q as well as Cascade Complete pods. All previous DWs couldn't get casserole dishes clean. The Bosch and these new detergents are the bomb.

Thanks Cavimum. Yes, we have a whole house water softener!

Cascade Platinum pods, Somat 10 tabs, Ecover tabs, Method Smarty tabs...absolutely no etching!!! Finish tabs...etching galore!!

Larsi, it's too bad you can't bypass the softener for your dishwasher. As you certainly know, your Miele will soften the water to the perfect level and then reintroduce some hardness at certain points of the wash/rinse to protect glassware.

I use the Finish powder in an older Maytag DW. IMO, Finish Quantum tabs are THE best but the powder is much more economical to use and works a lot better with my hard water than any of the other powders do. Cascade in my water is particularly awful--leaves the dishes scummy looking. The Maytag is a pretty crappy DW anyway so Finish Quantum wouldn't take care of crusty casserole dishes so I soak and handwash those, handwash all my cooking pots as well as large bulky 'DW Space Hogs'.

I prefer a powder so I can dose according to the demands of a particular load rather than having to use tablets, those pre-packaged, over-priced products dreamt up by the marketing department.

I've had my Miele Optima for 6 years and no etching. I use the Miele tabs (which I cut down to around 3/4) and the Finish Quantum. I use salt in my Miele. My glasses are the Duralex bistro ones from Williams Sonoma mainly. I do think the Quantum is too much detergent though and only use for really full/dirty loads. I cut down the Miele for smaller loads. I've thought having a powder on hand for smaller/less dirty loads might make sense.

@livebetter...you might want to buy or order a box of Finish powder. It looks to be available in both lemon and orange scent, but most stores only carry lemon (if at all). Amazon carries both. It works good, smells clean & neutral and so far....everything looks good. Honestly though Cascade Platinum pods, Somat 10 pods and Finish Quantum Max pods work AMAZING & BETTER, but they can be too much, and too strong for smaller or lightly soiled loads.

Using a powder allows you to add as much as you need or want.

I wonder what "fresh scent" is?

https://www.amazon.ca/Finish-Powder-Fresh-Scent-1-8/dp/B003VSC82G/ref=pd_sim_sbs_121_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=518Xur0snKL&dpSrc=sims&preST=AC_UL160_SR160%2C160&refRID=9J104G08WBFJAW41AD4S

Hmmmm, I do not even think this "Fresh Scent" in on the Finish website. It must be old/discontinued.

The Lemon Scent smells like old fashioned automatic dishwasher detergent...similar to old skool Cascade powder but MUCH lighter.

It's on the Canadian site and I see Walmart has it. I'll give one of them a try for smaller loads I think.

http://www.finishdishwashing.ca/en/products/detergents/powder/powder-fresh-scent/

Well it's all about the water you have. My first Miele dishwasher was a more than 20 years old one and it was great, i could use a generic brand, dead cheap because I ran thay machine more than twice aday just of the layout in the machine. When I got a new miele 2 years later, the detergent I had been useing in my old machine did not work at all. Found Finisch and wow everything good, medium hard water. That was on city water, now on well water, same detergent hard water and every glaceware cloudy and silverware dull as the enterior of my machine, tried alot of detergent but finaly came to Cascade ( called YES here) now everything gets clean, my glases sparcle and everything is clean, I do run a cleaning cycle bout a month with either finisch or cascade machine cleaner and use on of those nice smell things you hang inaide the machine.

Björn/linus....I used a HUGE bag of YES detergent from Stockholm in 2013 and 2014. Worked great. I'm pretty sure it was Cascade Platinum pods...P&G owns Swedish YES!

"Larsi, it's too bad you can't bypass the softener for your dishwasher."

You can bypass the softener by setting the water hardness to 0. At that point, all the water will be channeled directly into the tub and none will flow through the softener. Actually, any softener in a dishwasher can be deactivated by simply not refilling the salt reservoir. At some point, the resin can no longer exchange ions and softening stops.

"As you certainly know, your Miele will soften the water to the perfect level and then reintroduce some hardness at certain points of the wash/rinse to protect glassware."

To a degree. PerfectGlassCare will adjust the water hardness according to the cycle step and target temperature by mixing softened and unsoftened. If one feeds over-softened water to the dishwasher, that is under 4 grains per gallon, the machine won't be able to do anything to bring the water hardness up to the optimal level. Only buffer agents in the detergent can then help to lessen etching, along with short and cool wash cycles.

Hey, Whirlpool :) I apologize; should have been more clear. I meant it's too bad Larsi couldn't bypass his *entire home softener* to the dishwasher. In other words, bring hard water into the Miele, let the Miele soften it to the right levels, and have access to "hard" water for PerfectGlassCare. I suspect Larsi already does have the hardness set to 0 since has a whole-house softener, but then he's always getting 0 GPG water.

We have a whole house softener as well. I used to get etching with the Cascade powder. I've had no etching with the Finish Quantum tabs, Method tabs or the Ecover tabs (though I noticed the Ecover didn't leave the door fully shiny.

Added complication: we're on our own well and have a septic. So I ration the Quantum tabs and use them only for dirtiest loads. My usual is half a Method. I bought a box of Ecover and those are good so I sometimes use those for a full load that isn't heavy on the pots and pans.

But, overall, for the heaviest loads I've noticed bleach in the Quantum tabs keeps my espresso cups looking very white.

Etching comes from a combo of soft water, detergent and heat, of course. At one point a few years back I had to call Miele and have them adjust the rinses. It's been fine since.

But there is such good product out there, whatever suits.

I don't like powder detergents at all -- not for laundry or for DW. Too much gets into the air and I'm super sensitive. Sticking to my tabs.

About etching: what exactly is etching...Etching is caused by dishwashing detergent pulling the ions out of glass.

Its not the soft water that causes this, but rather Alkali detergent. Dishes get cleaner and rinse better in soft water. There's no logical reason to shut off the water softener..instead use a detergent less alkali and use a reduced amount, easy to do with powders and gels, not so easy with most tabs.

Make sure there is soil actually on dishware, as in scrape, but don't rinse.

Finish has always appeared more alkali of the detergents, and often does not cause instant etching, but may suddenly appear over a given amount of time.

Larsi has excellent results, and often steller results with a # of different detergent brands, with this in mind, I personally see no reason in changing his water softness level. Just change detergents and/or amounts used.

Frankly my water hardness often is 1gr/gal and even than if I use enough finish to **just**do the job I end up with etching. This is the only detergent I've ever used that has been problematic as far as etching goes for me.

Just my 2cents worth.

Didn't mean to step on your toes Roc..I must have been typing when you were sending

"About etching: what exactly is etching...Etching is caused by dishwashing detergent pulling the ions out of glass. Its not the soft water that causes this [..]"

From Miele's internal literature:

Corrosion - General information:
1. Soft water leaches glass more severely than hard water. This is
because as the water has a low concentration of hardening
metal ions, these can be more easily removed from the surface
of the glass.
2. The higher the water temperature, the greater the corrosive
effect.
3. The longer chemical, temperature, water and mechanical
factors are allowed to act on glass unsuitable for dishwashing,
the quicker corrosion will occur.

Electronically Controlled Water Hardness (EGS)
The EGS valve is located in the water inlet mixer.
To prevent or avoid possible glass corrosion, the wash water hardness level
should not fall below 3 grains per gallon in program steps with heating and 5
grains per gallon in program steps without heating.

Have any of you using Cascade platinum noticed a residue inside the DW, just under the detergent door on the bottom floor really close to the door? I thought it was my old DW but it's happening in my new one. There's not a lot but it's definitely there.

@ beaglenc....I have not noticed this at all with Cascade Platinum pods, but I for sure get this with Cascade Complete powder (although mine ends up really close to the door, at the top. Odd. Dishes are almost always sparkling, but for powders....I think I like Finish powder better (or now Mama's old fashioned phosphated Cascade powder, Vintage!) :)

Bea, tell us how you like your new dishwasher?

Mama the jury is still out on this one. I'll post more on it later. It's the Whirlpool Total coverage.

I'll be waiting Bea, never know when my dinosaur will kick the bucket. I'm not actively researching yet, but plan to when I get all these Appliances paid off. Thank You.

I was going to get this Finish powder but ended up grabbing Oxi Clean dishwasher powder (not packs) on a whim. Being discontinued at Canadian Tire. I've done two loads and really really like it (I'm shocked). Usually use Miele tabs or Finish Quantam. The Oxi Clean leaves even the cutlery spotless.

I've been using both the Finish Advanced and Oxiclean powder detergents and think they work equally well.

Starting to feel like Larsi LOL. Was marked down another $2 so I came home with them all. Still liking it a lot. Everything virtually spotless for me.

GO Livebetter!!!! LOL. So proud of you! Your cat collection will be arriving in the mail soon too!! ha ha ha

OK...Livebetter!! I just ordered a bottle of this dishwasher powder from Amazon. The reviews were glowing!!

MamaP...I also ordered a bag of your Somat powder w/phosphates. I have about 1/4 box left of your vintage Cascade powder. I SO wish they still made it. I began to have mini panic attacks each time I use and and feel the box getting lighter. It literally cleans everything. Glasses and flatware have not looked this good in years...and I like my Somat 10 a lot, but Mama's Cascade powder is AMAZING!!!

I'm also breaking into cold sweat as I near the bottom of my vintage Cascade box from Mama. It's among the best I've ever used.

I'm really glad you two enjoyed it and had such good results. This is the kinf if stuff that can be found in gas station/convience stores. Lol

MamaP...there is NONE of this vintage Cascade left. I have literally driven MILES searching. None! If you have more, you better hide it honey. Alex and I might just show up in PA, at your front door with big shopping bags. Yoo-hoo!! LOL

Another place to look...small dirty looking mom and pops stores. .often these are in the not so good section of town. And keep an eye out on Big Lots..sometimes they run across old stock of stuf f in the back that they put out.

What about your current day Cascade powder mixed at 1 part STPP to 2 parts Cascade...that should be giving great results. Although I'm sure the heavy handed amount of Sodium Carbonate in it may interfere.

Some of us old timers here will remember how great laundry detergent with phosphates used to be, everything was clean and never any worries of residue.

But, a few people screamed to the high heavens about the phosphates, turned out consumers only accounted for 3% of the problem if that...so they were removed and a trade off was used...several other chemicals replaced phosphates that from what I've read have worse effects on the human race. but your not here for a history lesson

LOL