I don't use housewrap at all; instead, I sheathe in XPS , followed by #30 felt under the brick/stone.

IN your case, I'd use Typar instead of Tyvek; it's easier on the eyes, lasts longer when exposed and doesn't tear as easily. Whichever membrane you use, I'd also have the bricklayers use at least #15 felt as well. Old-timers around here still insist on it out of habit.

Unfortunately osb sheathing is installed. I would have used zip system and had no housewrap had I known that I was getting the wrong housewrap. Now I need to get the osb protected before the next rain on Wednesday and tyvek is readily available ao that will be what I use since the woven housewrap is frowned upon. I'll look into the 15# felt. Thank you.

Typar would be best if under wood siding but in a brick cavity Tyvek is fine but use cap nails instead of staples and overlap the sheets properly. Detailing of the openings is another more complicated issue that has been beaten to death on the forum.

Flashing tapes stick to plywood and ZIP panels well but not to OSB, especially if the rough side faces outward, unless you use a primer. In a nonscientific test of pressure sensitive tapes, Martin Holladay found the Swiss made Siga Wigluv tape to be the only one that adhered to OSB. Its 2 1/4" wide and is reported to cost 47¢ a foot. Any pressure sensitive flashing tape must be rolled well with a hard rubber roller or it will be useless.

Given your budget, I think you would be better off installing Tyvek Home Wrap properly which is will be difficult enough to achieve. If you are determined to seal the sheathing I recommend applying a liquid weather barrier applied with a roller in place of house wrap. Or you could just apply the liquid sealer and reinforcing tape to the joints.

What are your thoughts on using the woven house wrap but also buying and installing a 1/2" foil faced polyiso over the top and taping the seams? It wouldn't add that much more over the cost of buying new tyvek, but I get the advantage of extra R3 insulation, it helps with thermal bridging, and gives the radiant barrier that I wanted to begin with. I suppose it also gives somewhat of a barrier over the woven house wrap.

The foil facing would create a vapor barrier forcing the wall to dry to the inside. Make sure that is what you want for your climate.

Also make sure the wall cavity will still be adequate for ventilation and not be blocked by mortar. Making the cavity larger might not be possible depending on the size of the brick ledge at the foundation.

You need to back up and review the entire exterior wall system hopefully with the help of the original designer. You've gone beyond the point of choosing individual options; you need to make the wall system work properly.

Great advice here. I agree about Zip being a preferred option but would choose the Zip+R product instead of the regular Zip sheathing with no insulation.

Tough situation with the woven housewrap. It's nearly useless but probably better than nothing. With good flashing you might be ok but I would worry about it's non-existent perm rating next to a masonry cavity in a rainy, East coast climate.

Typar would be better than regular Tyvek but a drainable housewrap is best and Tyvek stuccowrap would be a good choice here, along with the felt paper recommended by Worthy. The stuccowrap provides a redundant drainage layer and the felt protects it from the contact with the masonry. Maintaining the 1" masonry cavity is a huge challenge as is proper weep hole construction. A mortar net product might be a good investment or better yet use a product like Corsella Dry for the entire masonry wall system, as in this Matt Risinger review video.

As JDS points out, 3m 8067 will not stick to most osb, you will need to prime with 3m 77 or a brush on product like Tescon Primer. This PIA task is a main reason why Huber's Zip products are so appealing. There also seems to be mounting evidence that some OSB is not airtight, even with taped seams.

Foil faced Iso could be a good move and it would be wise to use drainable housewrap between it and the wood sheathing. It think it would be worthless to use the woven housewrap there and would treat the foil layer as the weather resistive barrier, much like Worthy probably uses the face of XPS. No vinyl wall paper and avoid thick coats of interior impermeable paint on exterior walls to encourage inward drying.

I disagree that window and door opening details have been beaten to death on this forum or anywhere else. It's one of the most vulnerable locations to rot and damage in a home and poor practices are too common. How you detail your subsill and head flashing are probably more important than type of housewrap.

no big loss on not getting radiant barrier wrap, that stuff isn't

great. better choice to use the wrap under the half inch

foam/foam sheathing.

best of luck.

Using a thin impermeable layer of foil-faced insulation over the OSB sheathing requires a study of the winter temperature of the inside face of the sheathing to avoid freezing of condensation since there would be no vapor barrier on the warm side of the wall cavity insulation. I'm not familiar with your climate nor do I know the insulation you intend to use so I can't tell you what the result will be. Interior humidity control would also be a factor.

The recommended air space in a brick cavity wall for commercial buildings is 2" but for some reason that dimension is only 1" for homes even though rainwater doesn't know the difference. If you add a 1/2" layer of insulation to the cavity, the brick must be moved outward at least 1/2" so you should verify that the bricklayer understands that.

Also verify that if the bricklayer uses corrugated metal ties (no longer used in commercial construction) when they are attached to the building over the insulation board, they should point down and be bent up as needed (he will want to point them up and bend them down creating a water bridge). Also make sure excess mortar is not allowed to bridge the cavity or drop into it and install a mesh material at the bottom of the cavity to avoid mortar blocking the weeps. Also carefully flash the wall at the wall base and headers. Its not easy to build a 1" cavity that keeps rainwater on the back side of the brick instead of traveling to the backup wall and entering through the tie screw holes. Avoiding bridging is as important as the choice of a weather-air barrier. Energy conservation should not be put ahead of keeping water out of a house.

I used to design multifamily and commercial buildings with brick cavity walls and learned enough to want to avoid brick on houses but not one of those buildings used house wrap to protect the sheathing. If I had to design a residential brick wall and if a ZIP system was not feasible, I would use a liquid-applied weather-air barrier. Of course, I would do that even if the cladding were siding.

When I say something has been beaten to death on the forum I am referring to the past decade. If the search function still works try the subject plus Mightyanvil, MACV or Renovator 8.

http://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-the-perfect-wall

Thanks JDS. I was able to verify that brick will be able to accommodate an extra half inch (and maintain min 1") on all walls but 2, which are both under my covered back porch. The Mason's already laid a few course of 4" thick CMU as a brick ledge around the house (below grade) so either I have them relay those walls (6' long walks) or just don't do undulation on those two.

Good advice on the brick ties. I was planning on having a pre installation meeting going over how brick ties should be installed so I'll make this a bullet point. I was also planning on using mortar net or a similar product. I am trying to do everything as close as commercial const as I can (since that's my profession), without breaking the bank.

I have been reading up on residential flashing applications. I will implement some of what we use in commercial const.

Thanks for the thorough responses.

Some time ago, the Canadian government commissioned research on the life expectancy of various components used in residential construction. If I recall the study results correctly, the life expectancy of brick veneer cladding was determined to be in the 100 years +/- category. Unfortunately the life expectancy of engineered house wraps installed behind the brick veneer are much less. I think Tyvek was determined to be a 25-year life expectancy product (commercial Tyvek was somewhat better.) I have remodeled 50 year old homes with 15# felt as a secondary drainage plane material and found the material to be intact and functioning as originally intended. For my money 15# commercial grade felt is a good material to consider. A number of researchers, including Paul Fisette at University of MA and other have concluded the same thing. The following link may be helpful:

http://www.greenhomebuilding.com/pdf/RainScreen.pdf

I don't use house wraps or building felt and always back prime cedar siding but there is an important distinction that should be made between the old (pre 1973 oil crisis) 15# (15 lb/100 sq) asphalt saturated building felt and the current #15 (no. 15) building felt. When the designation changed, the actual weight of the felt dropped to between 7.5 and 12.5 lbs/square

So, if maintaining the original 15 lb/square weight is important, it may be necessary to use #30 felt which now weighs between 16 and 27 lbs/square. To be sure you should weigh the roll and divide by the number of squares of coverage. The roll below weighed 60 lbs 40 years ago but now it might weigh between 30 and 50 lbs.

This material worked fine when windows arrived from the factory with casing trim installed that overlapped the felt but the current use of nail-fin windows and self-adhering flexible flashing makes it difficult because the flashing won't stick well to the felt.

If you specify commercial grade 15# felt you will get the equivalent material to the the 15# felt of old. No need to upgrade to 30# felt.

The suggestion to specify #30 asphalt-saturated felt was intended to be an easy way to guarantee the underlayment would match or exceed the old 15 lb/square weight without doing some work to be able specify an equivalent.

For asphalt-saturated felt, the terms "Commercial Grade" and "Specification Grade" have no industry definitions; they are used by individual manufacturers to indicate their highest grade so you would need to include the name of the manufacturer in a specification and not allow substitutions. That's fine if you know the weight that manufacturer sells as commercial or specification grade.

Currently the only industry standards for asphalt saturated felt underlayment are ASTM D-4869 and D-226.

Here is what is available:

It's sad that apparently 15# doesn't have an industry definition, either.

In the old days the felt was made of recycled cotton rags and a 4 square roll had to weigh 60 lbs. to be called 15 lb felt. Now the only way to know for sure how much asphalt is in it is to weigh it yourself.

A similar thing happened to asphalt shingles when fiberglass mats were substituted for organic mats and rather than use lighter weights per square, the manufacturers decided to rate quality by the length of the warranty.

Guys,

I'm in the industry and sell the best WRB out here. Do some research on these problems with Zipwall and even Tyvek. I've seen Tyvek turn into a powder near the Coast. Don't believe me do the research... If you contact many of these manufacturer companies they'll give you the run around. Ask a Tyvek sale rep about surfactants... Their jaw will either drop or they'll do nothing b/c DuPont keeps this issue tight lipped.

1.) most important... Is the product surfactant resistant. What does this mean? Surfactants break down the surface tension of a water and cause it to flow at a higher and easier rate. Why is this important b/c once a surfactant is introduced it'll alway cause a problem every time it rains or moisture meets the product. Surfactants are in Stucco, Cedar, Fiber Cement products and even vinyal siding. If you pressure wash your home soap is a surfactant. Think about what's behind the WRB... OSB a wood based material... What happens to wood when water is introduced it molds and rots over time.

2.). Perm rating: most building scientists agree that perm should fall between 10 and 20. So why? Because below 10 the product is too closed and doesn't allow the wall too breath above 20 the wall is too open and the water flows too easy. Zip has a perm of 12-16... How is this possible? If you take OSB, which has a perm below 1 and glue a paper based WRB to it how do you come up with an average of 14? You can't it's the least common denominator of the two. Huber gets around this by taking the paper by itself and measuring it's perm without the OSB attached. Tyvek has a perm of 58 and won't change it either unless you move to their commercial wrap. Why? DuPont invented Tyvek for the US postal service in the 1960's and hasn't change its recipe. The product was designed for air mail. Take a look at an envelope the next time you're in the USPS. This is DuPont's bread a butter not the WRB industry. Again don't believe me do your research. They introduced it as a house wrap in the 80s.

3.) Zipwall is wood with a paper based layer over it... Need I say more! Wait until cladding comes of the homes in 15 to 20 years or the next big hurricane... We'll see how it really preforms.

4.) on most job sites I've physically walked, a very high percentage of the nails are over driven. How does this effect the performance of the product and does it void the warranty? I realize installers are using numatic guns in most case which can be difficult to dial into the correct setting, Once they penetrate through the WRB into the OSB water will infiltrate through those nail heads.

5.) cost difference for zip runs about $300 per house more than your average premium house wrap even compared to Tyvek.

6.) transportation of products. I've never seen OSB transported without corners being marred or chipped. Most install crews hang it as is and don't care. The seams must be taped by install requirements or warranty is void. If you have bubbles in the tape water loves to get trapped in those areas. Again problems with mold and rot.

Guys and gals, these are just some of the problems with these two major products and you ask how they do so much business... DuPont is a marketing machine and knows how to flex their muscles. Huber has a great idea in theory, but in reality it has it's faults and it's the newest cleanest/sexiest looking product. Which people like the finished look and think it's the best technology b/c it's new. I'm open for any challenge questions please ask. I can keep going too!

I wouldnt use felt if it was the last thing on earth... It's change in the past 25 yrs. felt use to have 40% market share in the day... Now it's down to 8 and states like CA won't even allow it. You'll probably see it go away all together in the near future. Plus the composition has changed from the old days. It's not surfactant resistant... It has horrible water hold out. Perm is terrible. Tear strength is terrible too.

And UV protection is usually around 30 days before degradation begins.

The comments about Tyvek stucco wrap cracks me up too... What is it? What does it do??? Tyvek again didn't change their receipe... They basically added a "Crinkle" to the standard wrap and marked it up 30% to sell it to the misinformed... When the product is sandwiched between the OSB and cladding it flattens out... It's not surfactant resistant, which emolsafiyers in Stucco eat through it over time and water flow through it every time moisture is introduced... They require two layers, which DuPont introduced to code B/c their product doesn't stand alone. They make you put the other barrier in front of their product to prop it up too. There are products out there that can resolve these issue and do it with a single layer however code doesn't allow it now.

I read several research papers on house wrap. One University researcher concluded he would use building paper on his own home. It's old school but has stood the test of time. Having said that your wall should incorporate the ability of air to move freely between the wall and brick. Check out buildingscience.com for specifics.

Paul Fisette in the Building and Construction Technology dept. at UMass Amherst has studied (objectively from what I can tell) and written a number of articles about house wraps. In an article written in 2001, he indicated his personal preference for 15# felt over housewrap.

http://bct.eco.umass.edu/publications/by-title/leaky-housewraps/

My personal experience is that felt performs well: my 33-year old home is clad with cedar clapboard siding over 15# felt. I perform periodic rot repairs on the siding and have the opportunity to inspect the felt more often than I'd like. I've found it's held up really well. I'm currently remodeling a 1950's brick rancher for a client which has 15# felt installed over gypsum sheathing. The felt at age 65 years+/- is in surprisingly good shape.

Again, felt from today and many years ago are completely different... There are many new products or redesign products out there... Especially since he made that claim in 2001... I've seen the science and can demonstrate it in real world... DuPont doesn't even sell the same product in Canada as its does in the US b/c it won't pass code there. As a WRB or an airbarrier. And just an FYI, code requirements are kinda like our school systems. Instead of making the standards more difficult, they write them so everybody passes when it comes to WRBs. Just do yourself a favor and Google surfactants this is the Achilles hill of most WRBs including Zipwall, Tyvek, felt and many others. Only a few products out there are surfactant resistant. Mine is one...

Again with felt:

Perm is terrible on felt

tear strength is terrible

its not surfactant resistant

UV protection is poor

water holdout is poor

It meets all the lowest standards of code....

please let me know where I'm wrong... I wouldn't want it on my home. New isn't always better, however in this case it is better. Also, my product was invented specifically as a WRB and is the only WRB in the industry to have a limited lifetime warranty... Nobody else compares.

Just an FYI, I spoke with my building scientist who knows Paul Fisette personally. Paul has changed his views since that article was written on WRBs.

bailey4980

Since Fisette's paper is cited so often, it would be informative to see his "about face" in writing. Any references would be appreciated. As well, what is the incomparable WRB product that you are referring to?

******

Re brick ties. As a builder, I always supply these; otherwise the masonry contractor has one criteria: whatever is the cheapest.

One municipality here requires stainless steel ties. I suggested them on a custom build where they weren't required. $300 more for your house? "No way", said the client. After all, how many people will really live in a home for 50 years?

In the home where we're living now, built in 1964, the masons used nails as ties between the veneer brick and the concrete block walls. The rusting fasteners have popped off the surface of the blocks where they show in the garage; the exterior brick though still looks well-attached. (It's all going to landfill next year anyway.)

LOL! we already got the "my product is superior to all"

now its time for the sales pitch Worthy.

I stand by my perfect wall posting. and have spoken to

Joe several times about it. (LOL!)

best of luck home builders...remember to get the facts

from non-product selling sites. unbiased info tops

mfg tales any day. then use the unbiased info to

make your choices.

best of luck.

Haven't pitched my product nor have I told anybody what I represent... You've presented an article from over six years ago and the other gentleman's is over 16 years old. You can't debunk any of the statements that I've made B/c there all legitimate. You believe what you want... It sounds like in your opinion the verdict is still out on the effectiveness of a WRB. Obviously no changing your mind until another guy in the building Science community writes another paper. The gentleman above asked for advice and I gave my two cents. Try emailing DuPont or Huber and ask those questions. I have and they gave me the run around. I stand to make no money pitching my products to you or any of these other people. So, why do I waste my time? B/c I'm sick of all the misinformation that keeps getting posted. Do you even know the differences between all the WRBs or do you just catagorize all them in the same bucket? Maybe you can refer to another article for me. Please enlighten me. I have solid data taken straight from each of the manufacturers specs. If they post it, their obligated to stand behind their claim. The problem again with most these manufacturers is they only give you the short of their product.

The trouble with surfactants has long been recognized by building scientists, including Paul Fisette in the articles noted above. A housewrap doesn't have to be surfactant proof to be effective. BTW, if Fisette has had a change of heart, I would think he could have his articles edited or deleted from the U Mass Amherst site where they still appear.

Still interested in hearing about the unique product you represent.

Really??? Doesn't have to be surfactant proof??? do you realize what surfactants do to a product? go to YouTube and watch some videos put out by the industry. The companies that actually took it into consideration when designing a WRB. Then multiply that effect over the years... It never goes away either. Do you realize the modern home sweats an average of 6-8 gallons of water per day from its interior too? A product that isn't surfactant resistant is like someone who has high cholesterol the heart has to pump harder to work the blood through the system and slowly over time the walls become clogged and damaged. The same thing happens with surfactants they contaminate the wrap causing it to fail and eventually degredate over time. I wish I could show you all the testimonies from the OBX after the last hurricane came through and the cladding came off the homes. Builders first thought the homes were built without any house wrap. They noticed a white powder around the bottom of the foundation. Once they got to the top and finished pulling the cladding off they found traces of Tyvek. It literally disingrated into powder.... Due mostly inpart not being surfactant resistant. Most builder in the OBX won't touch Tyvek b/c of the issues. As for Mr. Fisette, these guys never delete their articles or publication. I'm waiting on my building scientist to respond to my questions regarding his change of mind.

It might be helpful to review Fisette's findings since the results are so often oversimplified.

"... in Fisette's 1998 tests using a 3.5" column of clean water, Tyvek showed no water leakage while felt lost 30% of its water on average. Using soapy water, Tyvek lost 10% of its water column while felt lost 30%. Using cedar extractives, Tyvek lost 3% of its water column while felt once again lost 30%... In those tests, Fisette did find that felt often held water for 30 minutes before leaking, and he prefers its hygroscopic qualities to the non-absorbent plastic wraps." http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/green-building-techniques/16146/building-felt-vs-house-wrap-white-cedar-sidewall#ixzz489syjJpc

Fisette later tested a new formulation of Typar and found that it performed better than Tyvek in the surfactant tests.

DuPont and Huber warn that cedar siding should be back-primed if used over their products. I have not found reliable evidence that factory dipping cedar shingles in a solvent-based stain is an equivalent method of protection from surfactants but I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Until someone shows me a better system, I put cedar clapboards and shingles over Huber's Zip System although I would prefer to use a liquid applied system if it was better understood by builders and was less expensive.

Isn't just cedar products it's every type of cladding out there that has surfactants in it. Water will penetrate directly into the walls once moisture interacts with the contaminates. Liquid applied coatings have their limitations too. Good luck with Zipwall... The writing is on the wall if you can't discern from the points that I made than I don't know what else to tell you. Try asking your Huber rep to rebute anything I said. I bet they have no clue or give you the runaround. Ever heard of the term "mold is gold"? Google it... Well, it's the term ambulance chasing attorneys gave to the mold issues in home building.

Bailey, you raise good points but provide no links in support. Maybe your personal building scientist can help you out there. The only posts Bailey has made to this forum have been in this thread which was seemingly revived to talk trash on other's products.

Yes, surfactants are a problem but that's true for any moisture sensitive materials. Most research uncovering badly damaged housewraps due to surfactants are the result of cedar that has not been backprimed or installed with an airspace. As Paul Fisette and other's like Joe Lstiburek constantly remind us, minding the gap and using rainscreens are among the most important details for cladding and sheathing durability, which are especially wise for real wood and masonry.

For stucco or masonry, the idea of covering a drainable WRB with felt, is similar to using two layers of felt. It helps create a redundant drainage layer and is closer to the best practice of installing stucco with an airgap. Building scientists aren't sounding alarms about surfactant problems with Stucco, it's mostly about installation details that include an airgap.

Matt Risinger has a good video demonstration on why drainable housewrap like crinkled Tyvek stuccowrap is superior to regular housewraps. This application is increasingly important as building codes are rightfully encouraging insulative sheathing outside of the plywood or OSB layer. So the most important thing is not surfactant resistance but proper flashing and including airgaps as provided by drainable housewraps and better yet vented rainscreens.

I recommend people upgrade from regular Zip sheathing to Zip +R sheathing which addresses insulative sheathing. The coating on the outside of the ZIP OSB is acrylic based, not paper. This OSB is far superior to most, and one of it's best attributes is the ability to have the seams taped without primer.

The exterior surface of Zip System panels is medium-density phenolic resin impregnated kraft paper that has been heat cured under pressure like a laminate. Acrylic resins are sometimes crosslinked with phenolic resins but I don't know if that is the case with this material.

The pressure-sensitive joint tape is polyolefin film with an acrylic adhesive.

Sloppy information gathering leads to sloppy conclusions. Bailey, you should try applying your hypercritical approach to yourself first.

JDS, Am I missing something here? What exactly is Kraft paper? An organic based material that is a food source for mold... Mold needs 4 things to grow Spores, Temperature (40 to 120 degrees F), Moisture and last, but not least a food source or in this case an organic based OSB and "paper" as I said before .., the only thing we can really manage is moisture. You take away any of these things and mold will not grow! Not sure what I missed or hypercritical approach I took. Not to mention all the other reasons I pointed out not to use Zipwall. But, go ahead keep using it. If you're lucky you might be retired by the time it fails. Never said anything about their tapes or flashings either as far as I can see their decent,but kinda expensive. Please refer back to my original argument. And just an FYI, Huber reserves the right to void any warranty if the seams aren't taped by their standard... Read their warranty... Looking forward to your rebuttal...

Thanks for the ZIP correction JDS. The resulting smoothness of the exterior ZIP coating is what helps tape stick to an unprimed surface for good air and water resistance at the panel seams. The multi-functionality and reduction in labor costs for eliminating additional WRBs are why so many people are choosing it and why apparently some salespeople result to questionable marketing.

I'm no chemist but do have experience using resins to change rot-prone substrates. Rot Doctor's CPES is a product we've had a lot of success with, stabilizing rotten wood for long term epoxy repairs. The Zip facing is paper based in the same sense that felt is paper based. The fiber's ability to absorb chemicals are what enables it to acquire different properties. In both cases, the resulting product has more weight and volume of impregnating material so it's not exactly accurate to describe as paper based.

Not really sure what he cleared up either. He actually proved my point. The layer is paper based. I've walked more Zipwall installs than I can count and one common factor is that the nails are usually 99% of the time over driven. What happens when there over driven? The "Kraft Paper" Layer is broken, which allows water to flow through those penetrations. I've been told by several installers they've seen the OSB swell, especially in the areas where the joints and seams come together. I can think of many examples where I've seen OSB swell along the edges and corners and this is no different. If You love zip so much... Why don't you ask your local Huber rep these questions..,. I bet he/she can't answer them or will refer you to product specs, which are usually vague. And again, not sure what questionable marketing I'm doing... I've stated facts and nobody can rebut any of them.... Another cavat, my company actually considered an OSB product and a liquid applied product. We paired with a huge OSB manufacturer. My building scientist looked at the main perimeters. Water holdout, perm, UV protection, strength, surfactant resistants..,. But, it kept failing the test he put them through... mainly in our case perm, water holdout, distribution/product transportation without damage and flashing the seams. These are the same issues Huber chose to ignore... Only add in surfactant resistance with their product too! As for liquid applied... Most products require a certain thickness in mm to be evenly appilied across the surface. How can you garuntee the same thickness is evenly applied across the entire project? You can't! Second, most require a clean surface... Tell me where that ever happens on a jobsite. Third, can you say overspray and liability... Fourth, what happens if you spray the product on in the morning and by late afternoon it's raining or conditions have changed? Your screwed is what... Most liquid applied coatings take 24-48 hours to cure, which is a problem in of itself. Again, Huber has a good idea in theory... The problem is it doesn't translate to the real world. And just an FYI, Huber isn't a WRB specialist... There known for their wood... Again, please let me know what I'm missing besides being a salesman....

When I worked as a construction manager for a national production builder, we skipped additional WRBs completely, relying on the face of the structural sheathing which was ThermoPly. From a moisture perspective, most of these "paper based" wall sheathings will probably be fine, mainly thanks to the hollow vinyl siding which acts as a rainscreen.

Hate to tell you, but once again there are surfactants in vinyl siding... And if you power wash your home soap is a surfactant that allows water to penetrate. Most vinyl siding has weep holes which allows water to infiltrate.... That's why soap is used in Landry and dishwashing to break down the surface tension of a water molecule. Not sure which national builder you speak of, but if you were using vinyl siding in your application... Probably wasn't the most cost effective product nor did they see the value of a premium WRB.... Kinda low cost low information situation... Run into it everyday with purchasing mgrs.... Most look at the bottom line and not the big picture too.

BYW, it appears you live in Ashville NC... What production builders really build there? It's not like Charlotte or Raleigh.

Again, ThermoPly... Honestly, I've heard of it, but don't compete against it. So, I don't know much about it.... I would say all the usual suspects are there with an OSB based product.... Mainly in this case permability... OSB has a perm rating of about .7... The consensus for most building scientist is that perm should fall between 10 and 20..,. Let me know how that works on an OSB based product. I'm sure it's not surfactant resistant either... Which if you don't understand the importance of surfactants by now I can't explain anymore. Third, taping the seams... And fourth, damage to the product before during and after installation.

Here is a Good resource for commercial grade air barrier information that includes links to manufacturer websites, installation details and specifications.

Zip System and Tyvek HomeWrap are not considered commercial grade. There's a whole world of construction materials and techniques rarely used by home builders.

Still waiting to hear the name of the barrier that puts all others to shame.

I prefer avoiding the whole OSB problem by sheathing in XPS followed by housewrap and/or building felt. Lately, I've been noticing more and more subdivision builders taking similar routes. Gypsum core fibreglass matted sheathings seem to be popular on smaller commercial buildings.

You guys can do your own research and figure out the product, but here's another article published by DuPont disputing many of the same things my company says about Zipwall: http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/assets/products-and-services/construction-materials/assets/Tyvek-vs-ZIP-System-Tech-Talk-K17924-1.pdf

I stopped taking DuPont's advertising seriously long ago.

I'm not a builder; I've been an architect for longer than Tyvek has been in use. You think you're an expert because you've searched the internet but you're still a novice. Give it a rest.

Sorry, but I'm not going to name the product... After the back and forth we've had, I don't want any complaints sent to my company for any reason... Seems we have some cry babies that can't open their minds to change. Again, sometimes it's hard to swallow when you've been told one way and there's another better way of doing it. I've provided several examples why I wouldn't use Tyvek or Zipwall... That's really how this conversation started. Nobody really ever debunked any of my statements. I have tons more information too, but will let it go... I'll just say this. If I was selecting a WRB I would look at the following:

1.) surfactant Resistant

2.) Strength of Product

3.) Warranty (single source? Do they actually make all their products too or out source?)

4.) Perm Rate (10-20)

5.) Water Hold Out

6.) air barrier capabilities

7.) UV protection

8.) quality of tapes and flashings

there is one product out there that is superior to all the others in most or all of these categories and leads in overall performance. You just gotta find it yourself... I'm out.

Here are all the types of sheathing the encyclopedic Martin Holladay comes up with: OSB, plywood, fibreboard, structural fibreboard, rigid foam, fibreglass-faced gypsum and diagonal boards. And JDS has supplied a list of commercial air-grade barriers while mentioning a few of his residential favourites. So I'm stumped. (But that's not uncommon as the years advance.)

I hope out means gone. Reminds me of the days when Manhattan42 was the resident troll.

As for the super material, all I can think of is Delta-Dry which is a vapor impermeable rain screen instead of a vapor permeable weather barrier so it shouldn't be affected by surfactants but I don't think it's been approved as a wrb. I guess it could be used over Zip sheathing in a really wet location.

Here's a more accurate description of the permeance of wood panel sheathing when there is moisture in a wall cavity.

not surprised bailey. not surprised at all.

and fwiw, I like manhattan42's posts