New HVAC options--which would you choose?

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

Hey, I'm wondering which unit might be better for us.

We have a 1220 sq. ft. older house with BRAND NEW new super-efficient Windows (though our insulation is lacking); we are in North Florida and it is super hot and humid.

I've had 4 guys come out and 1 just wanted to give me an estimate over the phone, but even though these aren't the cheapest options, I liked these guys the best (mainly because they said our current ductwork was sheet-metal and it could be repaired or rewrapped if there were any issues, whereas the other two guys wanted to repair all the ductwork and bring them up to code by installing intake vents in 3 bedrooms for the low, low price of $2700 to $3300).

What do you think of these deals and are there any questions I should ask?

Our options:

1). $5955. 2.5 ton.

Carrier model 25HBC530 and FV4INF003. 10kw.

$5050 system, 400 variable speed a/h, 265 thermostat, 145 pad, and 95 pan?? disconnect.

10 year parts warranty

10 year labor warranty

2). 3 ton TRANE XR14 tem (6 var a/h) -- $5396

3 ton TRANE XR15 tem (" ") -- $5813

Comes with "comfort link XL850" thermo. 10 year normal parts warranty.

(When I asked LATER, he did say we might could do a 2.5, but the 3 ton would be better for just a few hundred more.)

Any ideas or questions I need to ask?

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Comments (5)

tigerdunes
8 years ago
What size system are you replacing?...inland or coastal location?...more(larger) is not better as far as controlling humidity...I will assume you are in an all electric situation...ductwork is in crawlspace or attic?...age of ductwork?...

post back

IMO
Joe Flow thanked tigerdunes
Joe Flow
Original Author
8 years ago
1). According to one of the estimators, it was a Goldman 2.5 to outside and a 3 ton inside; however, we did have terrible old windows that had a 1/4 gap between the top and bottom, so the new Windows SHOULD help a lot. We also plan on adding insulation.

2). We are 25-30 miles inland, but these new Windows are rated for beach winds.

3). The attic is huge, lighted, spacious and easy to walk around in. The ductwork was likely done in 2007 (8-9 years old) by a handy owner--2 HVAC estimators said it was good, and sheet-metal so it could t be hurt unless someone stepped on it--one said they'd definitely repair a crimped area, and replace some of the soft stuff at one end. Another said they'd make sure it was fine and rewrap or replace any spots that needed it. The other two said they needed to redo it--that it was too small and would likely leak, and that we needed to be brought up to code by having return gents in the 3 bedrooms (and wanted $2700-3300 for this).
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Sizing can be less of an issue when you have multiple units. Because each unit is controlled independently, provided of course the unit itself is not over sized for the area in which it serves resulting in excessive short cycling. In your case 3 ton plus 2 ton isn't necessarily equal to 5 tons of cooling... unless you drive those thermostats really low. By having two systems with total capacity of 5 tons (which, most of the time this would be oversized for a 1700 - 1800 sq ft structure) has a few advantages. 1. You have the ability to use one system only during low heat days or set the opposing unit higher. The unit set higher only runs if load conditions warrant.... meaning if it's not hot, the thermostat controlling the unit does not call... the unit can not run without a call... 2. Utility bills can be much less... because you rarely use both systems at the same time. You run the bedroom system when you sleep, the other when you're awake. If you have a home office in one the bedrooms you may need to rethink things a bit. 3. Extra capacity for when it's hot out. When it's hot you have the capacity to cool the home. (even while entertaining guests --- additional people add heat) Remember heat waves come, heat waves go... a so call 'properly sized' AC system is essentially properly sized roughly 10% of the time... especially if that system is a single speed AC system. Alot of people I come across like to sleep cool. So for that reason I doubt I would change the configuration of the space. Once you realize what you have, the choices you make are mostly budget type concerns. Essentially a set up like this runs like a 2 stage system. This kind of subject is above the pay grade of many... choose your contractor wisely. I service the Katy, Texas area.
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energy_rater_la
8 years ago
windows provide at best a 14% energy savings.

if the duct system is sized correctly then mastic sealing

all seams & joints would be worthwhile. hot dirty work, so

high cost to do this type of work. I've done a few and it is

difficult work, wothwhile, but a real pita.

the average amount of duct leakage is 30%, by eliminating

the duct loss, less tons of a/c is needed to overcome the loss.

much easier to just install a bigger unit than to actually

seal duct leakage.

rather than add 3 returns in the 3 rooms (bedrooms?)

jump ducts or transfer grills would be a lesser cost way

to provide return air pathway if main r/a is centrally located.

upsizing to 3 ton may only be a few hundred, but do you

need to oversize? oversized a/c units don't remove humidity

as well as a correctly sized system.

definitely invest in variable speed air handler, which

will help to remove humidity. but think about increasing

the efficiency to mid range. 16 SEER over 14 SEER, the

latter of which will be the minimum efficiency made in the

near future. for our climate 16 SEER seems to be the sweet spot

between efficiency & costs.

once you get the ductwork mastic sealed, & the system installed

your next big thing should be to air seal.

the attic floor/ceiling of living space is your air barrier

between attic temps & living space. sealing all penetrations

between these two areas, and then adding insulation

on the attic floor will bring you some real savings, better

indoor air quality, and most importantly....comfort.

best of luck.
sktn77a
8 years ago
Cough!.... Cough!..... 3 tons for 1200 sq ft??? Find a different contractor!

First, get the house sealed and insulated. The get a load calc done. I'm guessing 1.5 tons will suffice but only a load calc will tell.

Oversized equipment does NOT work for dehumidification.
Joe Flow
Original Author
8 years ago
We had a 2.5 ton outside and a 3 ton in the attic, but all 5 estimates were 2.5 tons except for one said 2 or 2.5, and one said a 3 ton. When I called to point this out, he said, "Well, you have 1500 sq ft, so..." And I pointed out his error. I don't know if he wrote it down wrong or if he was serious since we had had a 3 ton before in the attic.

Our last AC had a lot of issues even though it was 2.5 years old when we moved in, and lasted only 8 years total (with the last 4 costing us a lot for freon and other stuff)--it was also insanely loud). We will be adding insulation ASAP, but the windows were $12600, and are super high efficiency--compared to our last Windows, which all had 1/3" gap between the top and bottom and were the original 1930s windows.

I think we're going with the Carrier, since it's supposedly 16 SEER with the variable speed, and I like that they completely warranty the parts, labor and the compressor (why is his not a "part"?) for 10 years!! $5995 total installed, but the company has a long history locally.

Carrier 25HBC530 and FV4CN003.

New HVAC options--which would you choose?

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New HVAC options--which would you choose?

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tigerdunes

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