You know I had the same feeling about Bertie for the same reason. Poor Edith. I wish she could find some happiness.

Yes, obvious homosexual implications were made - including that perhaps he wanted Edith to be a beard. But they also had him appear to burn a torch for Edith. So either the idea was he was bi - or he didn't yet realize he was gay, hard to believe as that may be.

It is also noticeable how one day they are kissing and proclaiming their love, the next day he is tipping his hat to her and scampering away - merely because she'd been dragging her feet about Marigold. Instead of concluding it meant he couldn't trust her, he could have understood her situation, given her a pass. That and her going right along with breaking it off is what showed they should at least wait on marriage, not any suggestion that he might be gay.

I think he'll be back.

Bertie is not gay but his cousin..I would believe. I think they HINTED mightily about it. I think you are letting your American idea of masculinity muddy things up a bit. Bertie is no more gay than Molesley or Daisey's new love interest, or Marigold's father for that matter.

I don't believe Bertie is gay either and I think the script will have him crawling back to her after he finishes closing his cousin's estate in Tangiers. I thought that the break-up scene was disappointing, especially his role. He exhibited no anguish at all, very milquetoast. I don't know if that was Fellowes intention or if the guy playing Bertie is just a bad actor.

Embothrium -- With regard to the trust issue that Bertie cited when he broke off with Edith, she actually spoon fed him his stance when she admitted she didn't trust that he'd react well. He then used that against her by stating he couldn't be with someone who didn't trust him and that he couldn't trust. I thought the last part was remarkably obtuse of him. Certainly, given the times, he should have had empathy for Edith's position, and given her a "pass", considering how news of this nature could ruin her socially.

I think you are letting your American idea of masculinity muddy things up a bit.

If you are talking to me, I was talking about how they made things look. I'm not convinced they are actually going to show the character to be gay or bi later.

As for an "American idea of masculinity" they had other characters in the family state that he wasn't a good prospect - and this was clearly because he wasn't a stiff upper lip, stoic Englishman who instead blubbered like a woman.

And expressed feelings for another man.

Yes, if the two had married he could have even served as a social shield for her, by making her no longer a single parent. Instead now there is even the potential of the reason why he threw her over being circulated. How ironic, a newspaperwoman being ruined by gossip.

What are they going to do now, have the series end with Edith still never having any luck with romance? Or are they suddenly going to rescue her in the nick of time? Either will be a little odd, at this point.

I think you are letting your American idea of masculinity muddy things up a bit.

I think the broad hints more reflected society's perception of homosexuality at that time in history--think back over the last few episodes and consider Carson's attitude toward Thomas. I admit it could be a ploy to keep us guessing. ETA, and I wonder if Julian Fellowes had Harold Nicolson (husband of Vita Sackville-West) in mind when he came up with Bertie.

I don't think Bertie is gay at all. He wasn't a "good prospect" for Edith without money or a title. There was a hint about his cousin, though, "painting young men of Tangiers" and not being likely to marry. Bertie could have been more compassionate towards Edith's situation, but how could he explain it to his mother?

As I remember it his blubbering and comments weren't liked after he had become entitled.

Perhaps they'll bring back Edith's first love, Marigold's father. I don't believe anyone ever declared him dead, but rather mia. (I can't remember his name.)

Yes, the return of Marigold's father is what I believe (and hope) will happen.

Michael Gregson, he was declared dead, having been killed by some of Hitler's men, called brown shirts.

She only received the magazine, his apartment, etc because he was declared dead.

I don't think he is coming back.

Edith accepted Bertie as just an estate manager -- before she knew he would inherit a title. If Mary were truly sorry for causing Edith pain, she would at least have tried to intercede with Bertie. But, being Mary, she's all about making Mary happy. (Henry has made his conquest. Mary's in for an 'interesting' life with Mister Dashing Race Car Driver.) It's totally out of character for Granny to sympathize with this marriage. It's totally in character for Granny to be concerned about Mary, and not about Edith.

I can't really see how the new Lord Hexham could manage the scandal of marrying a woman with an out-of-wedlock child -- especially with the hinted Dear Mama in the picture. Yes, he was truly wounded by Edith's failure to be honest with him, but even if she had...they would have had to continue the farce of Marigold being 'a ward'.

Let us hope that the Brown Shirts did not kill Marigold's father, and he will turn up at the last moment. (Where did they get these homely children? Somebody's grandkids? "Marigold" looks malnourished.)

I don't know if I can take much more 'society'. "Mr. Selfridge" is about to resume!

Yes, him resurfacing could be one almost plausible way for Edith to come out on top at the last minute. Except why no hearing from him all this time? Anything they do for Edith now that represents a dramatic improvement is going to have to be a sudden turnaround or rescue, making it inherently contrived. Again, with it being this late in the game the two prospects would seem to be either it ends with her never having gotten a break romantically or a near miracle happening - each displeasing in their own way.

I found Tom to be obnoxiously meddlesome in the last episode. I used to like his character but hate the new role of matchmaker he decided to assume for Mary, especially when I couldn't wrap my head around her marriage to the race car driver. What's up with Tom? It seems like the writers have given up on any character development for him. He's also really gained weight; wonder if that's part of the script as he loses any edge to him and becomes just "one of the family."

Cassandra- yes, Tom has become the Irish Yenta! I feel that he's bullied Mary into accepting Henry, when her gut is that it would be torture to live with the anxiety of him crashing and dying like Matthew.

Was there such a paucity of suitors back then in England?

I think there was a shortage of eligible young men. Season six takes places in 1925 which is only a few years after the war and the casualties were quite high for English soldiers.

Ah, makes sense marie_cate.

I agree, those kids are almost a blur. Marigold doesn't look well, ratty hair, pale. Absolutely no development of the kids, and no one except the nanny seems to spend any time with them. They could eliminate quite a few minutes of Thomas with a pained look on his face and do a little with the children.

i absolutely love the conversations between Isobel and "Granny." I'd like a Dvd of just their chats!

Has anyone considered that Edith may decide that she really doesn't need a man to be happy? She may decide that she enjoys being a career woman, and she can move Marigold to London.

I'd guessed that "Cassandra" might be a male, but who'd have guessed Spratt? LOL

Absolutely no development of the kids, and no one except the nanny seems to spend any time with them

Making it true to how the wealthy dealt with their children. The scene(s) where the nanny brings them into a room for a visit with the parents etc. and the children are greeted as though they have been away on a trip I am sure is a quite intentional demonstration of what was typical.

Although during the run of the show there have been periods of adversity we are talking about a general span of time where the British landed gentry lived in extreme luxury, with servants dressing them and feeding them and so on - dirty diapers, temper tantrums and all that other bother of infants and small children being around all of the time was most definitely not going to be on the menu. They even designed their gigantic houses so the maids assigned to maintaining the rooms came and went through passageways in the walls, unseen - hence the somewhat alarmed "what are you doing here?" queries on the show when one of them pops into view upstairs.

All the toiling in the kitchen, the scurrying around downstairs, the military style protocols and expectations that Carson enforces and expects - the entire purpose of it is to keep the family living a fantasy existence, as though they were Gods.

The basis for this lifestyle with its mountainous houses and vast estates is enormous fortunes, with any social developments that begin to cut into the largesse soon affecting how things are handled on the ranch - hence the decision to start cutting servant positions and other austerity measures that have come up on episodes of Downton. If you have seen the companion production about the actual couple that owns and lives at Highclere it says they have an entire household staff of one elderly butler. And they recently had to spend millions renovating the roof.

After Edith's prospective fiance hit the road, I got the impression that she's realizing that Marigold and a career could be enough for fulfill her.

It was just a glimpse, but it was there.

I wanted to make sure that I had scheduled my TV to record the season finale which will air on March 6.

I don't know what description of the finale you might have but my Comcast has a quite a few teasers. I certainly don't want to give any information here that someone might construe as a spoiler but it was quite interesting. As I said - they're teasers but the description also gives a few facts.

If you're interested you can check with your own TV provider.

If you don't want spoilers, do not search YouTube for Downton Abbey--it doesn't leave much to speculation (which doesn't stop me, lol.)

I see PBS doesn't want the last episode of Downton Abbey to go up against another fantasy world -- The Oscars.

I don't think PBS is that concerned with ratings. The "last episode of Downton Abbey" was shown on Christmas as a special episode in England. The previous episode was aired in England in early November. I believe there would have been a break between the 8th and 9th episodes here whether or not the Oscars or any other special event were being broadcast.

Someone asked why Carson and Mrs Hughes were sleeping in the Abbey in twin beds...I think they were at the races and were in a hotel?

I must say that I'm glad that Tom let Mary have it...she needed to hear that from someone (other than Edith < s > ) and I thought his character was the one to do it. Her own father even commented to her at one point "That's a low blow, Mary, even coming from you".

So what did everyone think of the final episode?

I have to say I enjoyed it--unlike some earlier episodes I found it entertaining. Lots of things worked out for lots of people, and I guess most of us like happy endings. Edith got her man despite the weirdly domineering mother in law (I'd run from the situation myself; who would want to live with her and in such a forbidding fortress/castle? I sure hope Edith keeps her London editing job as an escape.) Thomas learned how good things actually were at Downton and seems to have lost all his nasty ways. Lord G. finally paid Lady G. a compliment in her hospital work. Mary is married to a used car salesman (!) and states she's proud of it (but is she really, especially given Edith's climb?) Lady Crawley's guy isn't dying of pernicious anemia after all. Daisy likes Andy after getting talked into it and seeing him in his undershirt pounding nails in a roof. Mrs. Pattmore and whats-his-face exchange a knowing glance. In Spratt vs. Denker, Spratt wins (I LOVE this plot by the way!).It is happiness all around, mostly!

So--what did you think?

I like happy endings too. Even Tom has a new lady in his life, we can assume. I assume the used car lot will become a dealership.

I will sure miss it. Enjoyed the last show. But, I didn't see seasons 1 2 and 3, so I've still got something to look forward to.

I'll miss it, too--it was one of two TV shows that I watch, but I don't always remember to watch when they air. It ended like a true soap opera, with happy endings all around, but the show is so popular, maybe we'll see a return/reunion as we did with Cranford.

We watched the 'double header' ending yesterday afternoon. We were stuck inside in the A/C avoiding the awful vog here anyway.

How appropriate to see the program (and the era) come to a close with Carson forced to retire. At least Thomas has a position; it's 'something', since he'll never have any other place (as a gay man). I can't imagine what 'household' he'll have left to manage, with everybody downstairs scattering. First priority: Replace Mrs. Patmore! (Impossible.)

I'm certain I've seen Bertie's castle in old movies -- the courtyard packed with knights departing to do battle, fair princess in the doorway left to (literally) 'hold the fort'. We know the whole Marigold thing is going to blow up, but, hey, this is The End so we don't need to fret. It's also still too early for Edith to be accepted as both editor of a light magazine and Marchioness -- oh, nevermind.

Sweet to see Mary married to a *tradesman* while Edith ascends to the heights of society.

Happy couples all around, including Mrs. Crawley and her 'patient'. Lord and Lady Grantham walk contentedly forward. Perhaps they will die before WWII.

Well! Countless hours gone, watching this long, long *soap*! Wasn't it FUN?

It was, wasn't it, chisue? a soap opera with really nice clothes, LOL!

For the most part, I loved it!

Good to see it was tied up with happy ends for most of the characters. Carson is getting a great retirement deal. i wonder if Mrs. Hughes will keep working. i will miss the program.

Overall I enjoyed the episode. I thought it was somewhat sappy, but was happy to see them all end happy. With the way that Lord Merton was sick and dying, and then moved out to be with Mrs. Crawley and then wasn't dying, it seems to me the writers were heading in the direction of having the characters discover that his son and daughter-in-law were slowly poisoning him.

Bob -- Me, too! "How sharper than a serpent's tooth..."

I decided that Carson would be facing life now with a little patience and reality thrown in for a change.

Ha! I didn't think of the possibility of poisoning!!

Of the multiple somewhat contrived endings the least plausible was Darrow being put in charge of the household right after attempting suicide. That and the fact that he was long the outsider - for years disliked, and now recently pitied - how is that going to translate into strong leadership? With his height, voice and ideas Carson fit the role. But Darrow?

They should have made this last one a full two hours. I didn't like that the season didn't start until the first week of Jan and then ended the first week of March. Or that there was no episode the week before the last one. When it ended with the New Year's gathering I was almost caught by surprise.

And the house looked big, dark, cold and empty in the snow, rather than warm and festive.

They did create situations that would lend themselves to a new series but half the cast is too old to pick up again years in the future. I'm not sure if I followed it from the beginning but I must have. Catching each new episode seemed recently to have become more of a priority - just in time for the series end to be announced.

Bertie's estate/castle....wow! Breathtaking! And all these years we thought the Downton Abbey estate was impressive.

Everyone was left with a happy ending. I wished there had been a pleasant boost to life for Dowager Countess Violet Crawley, but I guess she did get a lot of pleasure when she learned of her butler's writing. Maggie Smith was fantastic!

The cast and crew must have had one big party after the last episode.

I loved it but won't miss it. There is so much TV to watch!

The Dowager was Lady Grantham, right? With Violet Crawley being the mother of Mary's first husband.

Isabel Crawley is the social activist, Matthew's mother. I liked her character quite a bit. In terms of Barrow becoming butler, I guess most people, including myself, like a story like his so I found it satisfying. He learned a lesson; was isolated; helped by others who grew sympathetic; and learned to appreciate what he had. Of course few of the plot lines are fully "plausible" and his turn-around seemed lightening quick, but that's what happens in the world of make believe!

I liked the episode with Daisy and the new-fangled hairdryer. Oh, she said, after being discovered with a frightful "do", I didn't know you had to brush your hair while using it!

Overall I especially enjoyed the progression from the Edwardian to flapper 20's period. Such major changes in technology, culture, dress--fascinating era.

Here's an L.A. Times link fans might enjoy. It lists everyone who died on the program, when, how, and the "tragedy factor."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-everyone-who-died-on-downton-abbey-snap-htmlstory.html

Yeah, that's right: Isobel Crawley and Violet Crawley, Dowager Countess of Grantham.

The last episode's "resolution" of Thomas's story line completely ruined the entire series for me. He was such a jerk, that no amount of heart-string tugging could ever make me like his character.

The rest of it was so rushed - because Julian Fellowes knew he had such a limited amount of time to wrap up all the story lines.

But. That Thomas thing - to reward him with being promoted to Butler was horrible.

They made it clear during of the course of the series that Darrow was angry and frustrated because he lived in a time and place where his biologically ingrained interests were generally considered about as appealing and welcome as those of Dracula or Jack the Ripper.

Don't forget as well - as Lord Grantham reiterated when they were saying their goodbyes out in front of the house - that Thomas saved one of them from a fire.

No, what seems a stretch is entrusting someone who was just recently so overwhelmed as to attempt suicide with running the house. Before Carson was forced into retirement I assumed Moseley's departure was gong to be Thomas' salvation.

Definitely by the end in particular the show was being written to protray the Granthams as our own special family that had more empathy than might have been the norm - for what was essentially a slave system in many ways. Note for example the scene where his (temporary, as it turns out) new employer harrumphs about Thomas wanting New Year's off. And Thomas promises it's just going to be this one time only. What other purpose would this scene have had than to show how things were actually better at Downton than usual?

We might need more perspective to understand how great a change this period saw.

Early on, we glimpsed an(other) era when One Percent owned or controlled everything. Unlike today, the 'rest of us' had very few opportunities to rise 'above ourselves'. Keeping these wealthy people happy and helpless ensured decent jobs for those 'in service'. So..the more coddling, the better!

The series only hinted at the enormity of a whole society of these immature people, as trapped in their roles as the underclass. A 'gentleman' could not be seen to be actually doing *anything* lest he endanger lose his status AS a gentleman. Monte Carlo was created specifically to cater to this boredom, providing 'destination gambling', on a worldwide social stage far grander than card games and betting on races at one's club".

Keeping one's place hung on well into the 20th century. A British friend's mother cautioned her not to marry 'above herself' when the local (and very minor) 'lord of the manor' proposed. (You know what? IMO she did come to regret accepting-- and for that reason; his crowd was raised to a certain callousness.)

Early on, we glimpsed an(other) era when One Percent owned or controlled everything. Unlike today

Are you not aware that this is the situation in the United States at this time also?

"Keeping these wealthy people happy and helpless"

When her smoke break was interrupted because she was needed to help Lady Cora get ready for bed, Baxter (Lady Cora's lady's maid) said

"God help she should have to brush her own hair."

Cholecat--you sure do hold a grudge. :)