Templating our Fantasy Brown - what do you think?

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

We visited the fabricator today to view the templates. Our counters will basically be an L-shape consisting of a large peninsula 36" deep with sink, and the wall run with range in near-center. We bought the biggest slab they had, but unfortunately we will still have to have a seam at the L-join, and due to the large size of the peninsula the movement will not be in the same direction on the wall run as on the peninsula. The slab is just wide enough to manage the peninsula run as one piece but the end overhang cap will have to be cut from another area.

Here's our floor plan, the fridge wall is pantries no counter over there. The peninsula will overhand toward dining room.

Templates are:

Bottom template - peninsula, with kitchen-side at bottom (sink to right of center). The left half of the peninsula slab will be the most visible part - viewed when entering the home.

Top right template - the first part of the wall run that will be seamed to the peninsula (I chose this side of the slab so the colors are more similar to the right side of the peninsula area)

Top left template - wall run on right side of range.

Can you think of a better way to do this - short of buying an entire second slab? I think I am OK with this, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something. It's hard to picture how it will look with the 90 degree orientation change.

Featured Answer

PRO

Joseph Corlett, LLC

8 years ago

I'm glad it turned out so well. The fabricator did an excellent job.

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Comments (61)

motherwallace
8 years ago
I had the same issue in our small L-shaped bar. I was trying to use a remnant that I loved (with movement similar to yours) but wasn't quite large enough to make the "turn" and there would have to be a seam. Knowing how picky I am (very!) both the contractor and fabricator tried to talk me out of using it. I went ahead with it because frankly I was tired of the whole process - we were at the end of a whole-house remodel that ran 4 months long! You know what? It doesn't bother me at all! Granted it's not in my kitchen but I see it several times a day and I barely notice it. All I see is the movement of the natural stone which is why I chose it to begin with!
Tmnca thanked motherwallace
motherwallace
8 years ago
Here are a few pictures of the bar.
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rebunky
8 years ago
I actually found the picture of the FB I refered to earlier. It was on this thread...[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/is-fantasy-brown-a-granite-quartziteor-marble-getting-mixed-answers-dsvw-vd~930334[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/is-fantasy-brown-a-granite-quartziteor-marble-getting-mixed-answers-dsvw-vd~930334)

Personally I was not okay with it. But like others said, you are the one who has to live with it. Maybe ask some of your friends and family for their opinions. Also since you plan to sell in the future, consider if it would bother potential buyers.
my_four_sons
8 years ago
I don't know about fabricating, but can they do a 45-degree angled cut in the corner? That would look better, no clue if it's bad for strength of seam or whatever.
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
my_four_sons, I thought about that too, but since the peninsula is 36" and the wall run is 24" the angle would not be 45 degrees, and I think would look worse than a 90 degree angle around the corner because it would project into the very visible peninsula area.

Joseph Corlett, LLC, thanks but I'm not being "emotional" about a countertop - it's not a really big deal in my life, I just wanted to see if anyone had good ideas for mitigating the issue, and photos of a similar situation. It is an investment, but the cost of a second slab at this point in our renovation (when of course we have already reached out agreed budget) is not very appealing.

I am contacting the stone supplier to see about a half slab. The thing is there WILL be a seam there either way, since the L part is too large for any one slab, but if we cut with the grain the same way it would certainly look better.

rebunky thanks a lot for the photo and thread link, I was searching for exactly that kind of picture. I'm not really sure that that look in the one corner bothers me at all, especially in the location it will be in my kitchen in one single transition, not 4 different grain directions as shown there. The photos in that thread show quite a lot more motion and contrast in their stone plus a lot more seams, and the seams are not at a corner, which calls even more attention to them - there are changes of grain mid-counter run! I also think that with my peninsula being a different size, that visually it looks different than a regular corner. I'll stare at those photos a bit, but I am asking the stone place about selling back two 1/2 slab remnants, if they do that and it's not a huge cost impact then getting the grain cut right seems much better.
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
So here's an idea I just had - what about continuing the L through the corner, and then due to the length of that portion not fitting, and the notch in the stone on that side, the portion to the left of the range would have a seam in the middle, but it could be oriented in the same grain direction. Then the section on the far side of the range would be in the other direction, but it would be non-adjacent and out of the main view of the kitchen, too.

Here's how the template would work (not exactly to scale):

Here's how the pieces would be lined up, with grain direction sketched (I am lucky the grain in most of the slab is parallel not at a steep 45 angle as sketched here anyway)

and a very very crude mockup - very much not to scale, but showing the actual areas of the stone

So, do you think it would be an improvement to have a seam in the middle of that left-of-range run, to allow the grain to maintain direction? I am sure I would not be bothered by the grain going opposite on the far side of the range, since it's not adjacent.
atmoscat
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
tmnca, I don't post often, but I've been following your progress. I was thinking of suggesting something like the idea in your most recent post. I think that it would work, but I'm interested to hear what others think. BTW, your kitchen is coming along wonderfully!
Tmnca thanked atmoscat
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Thanks atmoscat - we are so pleased with how it makes our whole place look bigger, we are so glad we removed that wall! Moving the sink from under the window really gave us more space in the kitchen as well as more drawers for storage, and I think it lets in more light than the old layout. Once the counters and the white subway backsplash are in, the dark cabinets will be nicely offset. We're very happy with our choices, and we will be happy with the new counters whatever the seam ends up as.

I wanted to take some better photos today, but the contractors are working on installing lights in the LR and have moved the DW and range into the kitchen plus covered the cabinets with brown paper to protect against dings, so no good photo ops now. The extra trim pieces for the bottoms of the uppers were out of stock so those will go on later, when we receive the [arts.
rebunky
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
It is so hard for me to visualize stuff like this. My gut says that I like the lastest idea even less. Sorry :-(

Reason being is that the seam passed the peninsula corner, although veining would be going the same direction, still wouldn't be an exact match right? The veins won't line up anyways. See this example. Not the best, but you get the idea.

Now add to that the other side of the range going in a different direction. That's why I think it may be even worse. I guess this is what I'm picturing on each side of the range, although maybe not so severe.

So if you just cannot fathom paying for a second slab, and it's not an option to either sell the remnant or have fabricator buy back or whatever they work out, then I would prefer (ouch this is killing me) the direction change at the peninsula like you originally showed. I'm say this with my OCD on the highest alert! So.....:-)
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
8 years ago
"I thought about that too, but since the peninsula is 36" and the wall run is 24" the angle would not be 45 degrees"

The differing depth of the tops does not change the fact that it's still a 90* turn and half of 90* is 45*.
User
8 years ago
FWIW - I always notice (and not in a good way), when the flows of stones in a space don't all go in the same direction. I wouldn't do it. I find it very distracting. If it were me, I would get a different stone if you can't get it all going one way at the price you need for it to happen at.

It is pretty though. Have you considered one area of marble or cutting board to help your quest?
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
OK please stop telling me to get a different stone, I only wanted creative input on any way to avoid the change of grain direction at this corner. I think I came up with the solution myself, and am waiting to hear back from the fabricator. I am perfectly aware that stone with this much motion will never "match up" perfectly and that is FINE. I just want to work with the slab the best I can. I don't need my kitchen to look like it was fused by nature in a perfect shape :)

rebunky, those examples are not what mine will look like - the veining on my slab is not at such an angle to the cuts and will be much more subtle, more like a chevron at the range than a parallel vs perpendicular flow on either side of the range like that example - my stone is also not as "stripey" as that one.

And as for the seam no it will never match exactly of course - and I am fine with that - same would be true if I bought an entire second slab and another slab is even less likely to match. I just wanted to avoid a really jarring corner transition. I think if you look at your 2 examples, the first is more jarring and in the more recent example by the sink, there is still a change of grain direction - in fact that is more similar to the change of grain that will occur on either side of the range (not adjacent) in plan 2.With my plan, the grain would never match exactly but would be in the same direction at the seam.

Joseph Corlett, LLC, I am an engineer I know how to do math and angles. Here is an illustration of why the counter depth affects the angle between the slabs. The thin blue line is a 45 degree angle while the black line is the seam that would be a miter between 2 different depth counters, obviously greater than 45 degrees. I suppose you could do a 45 degree seam there but it would look very silly ending partway along the wall right in the middle of the peninsula, that would look worst of all.

nightowl, no I am not changing the stone - the slab is already purchased and at the fabricators and as I said I am NOT terribly troubled by this grain issue and I am happy with the stone. I am not sure what a marble cutting board would address for me?
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I apologize for upsetting you. As for marble or cutting board- maybe the area right of the cook top?
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I'm not upset, just want to keep the thread to the intended purpose which is to open up suggestions on how best to template this particular slab for this particular kitchen.

nightowl I am not sure why you are suggesting a marble cutting board - why would I want a stone cutting board instead of the wood one I have? I wouldn't want to cut on stone, and I certainly don't want marble on top of this counter for appearances. Prep area will mainly be on the peninsula and left of the range - right of the range will be countertop appliances tea kettle etc.

I spoke to the fabricator this morning - well the business manager, she will check with the actual fabricator and have him take a look and give me his feedback.
nicole___
8 years ago
That layout would bother me. My Juperana movement granite does NOT have a seam in the corner...it was cut as one piece(to the right, can't be seen in pic). The corner to the far left of the pic, for the backsplash blends together going the same direction. I used 2/3cm slabs for the counters(there's another counter not in this pic), had left overs and spent a little more. If it matters to you now....it might matter to you later...
rebunky
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Oh yes for sure. Like I said, your seams will not be anything near like the crazy ones I posted. Thank goodness right?! And I wouldn't DREAM of talking you out of that gorgeous slab! It's my favorite stone too. I guess I like "bad boys" too. Haha!

I wish your fabricator had one of those high tech computer programs that can show you exactly how the seams would look. With me, it is the not knowing part that makes me nervous. It may end up barely noticeable. I am just one of those better safe then sorry, make sure, type of gal. My mom says I have been that way my whole life and calls me nervous nellie. :-)

I love how your dark cabinets look with the FB on that mockup you did earlier. The peninsula is going to be a huge WOW factor as soon as you walk in. So maybe you are right to turn the corner and then seam. Sounds like the piece to the right of the stove is going to be covered by several appliances living out on the countertop, so it won't be even noticed. Plus the flow like you said will swirl down and then swirl back up after the range. I think that will be fine.

Let us know what the fabricator says.
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
They sent me a photo of the taped template but it doesn't look right to me... sent them more questions!
rebunky
8 years ago
Can you post the pic they sent?
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I figured it out - the fabricator says the notch in the side of the slab (about an inch, would be up against the wall) can be repaired, and that the far right area of the slab will be a better match for the seam, in a spot where the color and pattern is similar. So they will do an L similar to what I sketched and do a shop seam to create the L section as one piece for install, so that the seam will be as tight as possible. I OK'd their plan - here is a PS mockup with their plan. The arrow shows the notch that has to be repaired. It's a bit distorted because the photo was on an angle and I has to stretch things. The darker gradient that appears on the right side of the slab is lighting/shadow. Range would be at the top left of this image, then on the far side the grain will run the other way, but the area to the left of the range is kind of swirly anyway so I don't think it will look "stripey". Very happy with this plan!
desertsteph
8 years ago
tmnca - will it be like your last pic? I'd be fine with that. with your stove between the 2 it won't be very noticeable and your 'flow angle' is not that dramatic of a change. the stone is very, very pretty!
rebunky
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
FWIW....that lastest mock up does NOT make my little red "OCD" flag go up at all. In fact it is gorgeous! Great job figuring out how to make it all work out. I cannot wait to see the reveal.
atmoscat
8 years ago
That looks great! It's going to be so beautiful.
Patti
8 years ago
Looks good! I will be interested in seeing the finished counters. Fantasy Brown slabs can vary so much, but yours looks very similar to mine (which I love). :)
PRO
Joseph Corlett, LLC
8 years ago
" I am an engineer I know how to do math and angles. Here is an illustration of why the counter depth affects the angle between the slabs. The thin blue line is a 45 degree angle while the black line is the seam that would be a miter between 2 different depth counters, obviously greater than 45 degrees. I suppose you could do a 45 degree seam there but it would look very silly ending partway along the wall right in the middle of the peninsula, that would look worst of all."

tmnca:

Why would you make a seam that is longer than it has to be? I've been in the countertop business for 30 years or so and have yet to see a corner seem done as you are proposing. You are an engineer, not a designer.
User
8 years ago
No one does seams like that for both support reasons, and slab yield. The longer the seam is, the weaker it is, and more support is needed. Weird angles mess with slab yield and actually give more chances for a color mismatch rather than contributing to flow.

A standard 90° Euro seam is the best choice for structural integrity and slab yield. If the stone's pattern is such that the directionality would be off, then it requires the purchase of a second slab. Doing a weird handle would not only be weaker, it would require even more material.

People who want to maximize their budget by buying a single slab should understand Not to buy a strongly directional stone. Or give up the budget and buy the additional slab. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
isabel98
8 years ago
well looks like the OP did. great job it's going to be great.
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Yes they are creating an L shape which will be seamed mid-way between the corner and the range to a smaller chunk cut with grain in the same direction. The last photoshop I did is a cutout from a photo f the stone in the actual templated area, obviously he has a good eye for matching the grain. The fabricator also said he will create the area for the right side of the range out of 2 pieces and do a shop seam (so it will be very tight) so the grain on that side will flow in the same direction, too. The counters will be installed next Thursday - can't wait! (Not only because they will look great but because I really want some plumbing hooked up LOL).

Joseph Corlett, LLC I think you missed my point - I said I didn't want either diagonal seam at that corner. If a shortest seam is the goal, then neither angled seam would make sense as a right angle corner would be the shortest seam. I do have aesthetic judgement as well as mathematical abilities, and that peninsula is going to be the most visible thing in our house - I want no seam on it. You must have missed the rest of the plan!
Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
Turned out amazing - DH sent me this pic I am still at work... Will take some better pics tonight :)
silken1
8 years ago
Oh my, just stunning!
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User
8 years ago
Glad it worked out great.
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cpartist
8 years ago
It looks absolutely stunning.
User
8 years ago
Did he send a shot of the other side? It looks great with your cabinetry. What sink color is that? It blends perfectly.
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AnnKH
8 years ago
That's gorgeous!
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natesg
8 years ago
Stunning. So glad it all worked out. I think you're going to LOVE it!!!
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Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
I'll be home in a couple hours and take some pics :)

The sink is IKEA Bredskar stainless steel, it probably reflects the stone colors.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S79888699/
User
8 years ago
Pretty SS with the gray shades. I am partial to SS for sinks - have it in our kitchen and happy with it. The reflection is pretty then :)
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Wendy
8 years ago
Turned out beautifully, congrats!
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Karen Eagle
8 years ago
Beautiful! Enjoy it.
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Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
Here are some more pics - obviously still not done the kitchen - some trim was backordered, the under-sink pullout needs to be installed after the plumbing (may need some hacking) etc. We are very please with how they fabricated the counters!

Here's the seam, I had to look for it...very nice work.

and the right side of the range, he was able to seam together 2 pieces ti make the grain match direction out of the single slab - can you see the seam?

corbels need a couple more coats of stain please ignore :)

We're still waiting for the other part to transform our white DW to SS, it won't stay like that :)
numbersjunkie
8 years ago
Wow! You/they nailed it!
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Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I am so happy at the skill of the fabricator, they were recommended by the stone supplier. I can't even find the spot where that notch was repaired, at all. I am glad I asked about the grain direction, they went the extra mile to make sure it looked not just "good" but amazing. Very, very pleased!

Now tomorrow the contractor's crew will hook up the sink, install the disposal and DW, and the Traemand installer is coming to finish the pullout, the trim and drawer front that were backordered. At least we will have plumbing to do dishes other than in the bathroom sink. We've eaten out so much this month we're sick of all the favorite places! Then Monday-Tuesday they will do backsplash tile and then install the hood and range - and then we can cook, but we'll probably be too exhausted, LOL!
amyfgib
8 years ago
That counter is delicious!
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rebunky
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Hats off to your fabricator! That is an awesome job. Hats off to you equally!!! You stuck with it until you figured out how to make that one slab work. And with a broken corner? I think you just set a precedent.

I think I found the seam on the left, but let me tell ya, it was not easy! I cannot find it on the right side of the stove. Please put me out of my misery and show a close up shot pointing to the seams. I sort of think I might see where the break may have been, but I'm seriously impressed because I'm not sure at all. Kudos!
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atmoscat
8 years ago
It is absolutely gorgeous. Good for you for figuring it out!
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Jancy
8 years ago
Wow! Your fabricator did a great job! Really worth the time and effort you put in to get it just right. Your kitchen is looking really beautiful.
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nicole___
8 years ago
Fantastic!!!!! LOVE it!
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Tmnca
Original Author
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Sorry I didn't get the close up seam photos yesterday the contractor was here messing the kitchen up again installing the disposal, faucet, dishwasher. They ran into a couple snags that slowed them down so now we have a functioning sink but now DW yet... getting tired of contractor time as they were supposed to show up at noon and came at 3:30, so only worked for a few hours. Anyway... back to the countertops here are the close ups of the seams!

This is the seam on the counter to the right of the range - you can see why it's hard to spot from more than inches away or at an angle, because they matched the colors and grain so well. It's only about 6" from the wall and we will likely have an appliance there such as MW or toaster etc anyway.

And here is the seam to the left of range. The bottom photo there is a reflection of the drawer handle on the overhang, not a mark or flaw.

Finally I did find (in the daylight) the repaired notch, it's up against the wall under the wall cabinet overhang so I didn't see it with room lights. We don't have under-cabinet lights since we only have a few uppers, we can add later if we want it.

This will be easily disguised by countertop items in this area such as utensil jar or canisters. We're keeping counters clear for now since the backsplash goes in next week.

Even if we'd bought a second slab we would have needed a seam to the left of the range since that was the largest slab available, and the quality of the seams and their placement is completely satisfactory to us - so a second slab would have spared us only the seam to the right of range near the wall.

This fabrication was by Stoneman of San Francisco, in case anyone is looking for an excellent fabricator in the bay area!
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Really wonderful. The notch thing is nothing. Will never be noticed. "Contractor time" HA HA
Tmnca thanked User
Lorie Kerstetter
6 years ago
wow and this is what is scaring me about going with fantasy brown. This looks great but the headaches to get it there. I have a large peninsula run too - Hoping they can seem it at sink with no direction change. Or is it better to go with otto white granite and be done with it. hmmm My dilemma. Do you get tired of looking at the waves/ pattern or is it calming and worth it?