I'm starting to explore online ads for apartment complexes and I really like what I see. The senior complex I was looking into has a waiting list.

Some complexes are pet friendly, have exercise rooms and party rooms, washer/dryer connections, pools, a far cry from the plain (but adequate) apartments I rented 40 years ago.

And I have a personal advantage, I am losing my hearing so that neighbor noise is likely to be much less of an issue for me.

I live in a SFH ... landlord cuts the grass, ploughs the lane, repairs/replaces appliances, does other repairs as needed without complaint and helps pay the power bill, 'cause if he had his shop on a separate service, it'd be about $40. extra/mo. It's on a farm - nearest neighbour about 1/4 mile away.

He ploughs my garden and cultivates it ... and gets some of the produce. (Haven't asked him to help pay for seeds).

I'd been paying $800./mo. for a 2-bedroom townhouse, unfinished basement, in the city, ten years ago and, as I'd been running back and forth almost daily to make old stepuncle's house look lived-in for upwards of a year, he'd known me, and offered to rent the house to me for about $450./mo. ... so it didn't take too long for me to reply that I thought that to be an excellent idea.

I figure that I can continue to live here as long as I can drive ... for hitchhiking to town for doctor, groceries, etc. in Feb. isn't much fun, in snow ... and I'd go stir-crazy, being confined to four walls for most of the time.

If I had an apartment, I think that I'd have to hang some of my possessions out the window(s) on a rope in order to have any room to navigate the place.

ole joyfuelled

My advice would be to choose a place that is run by professionals, after checking out their reputation. There are some fantastic small time owner operators, but when they have a family crisis or something, all of a sudden they're not so available, repairs get neglected, etc. A real business with employees will hire new or temp workers to cover. Also, if it's an older place, with more space, better storage, green areas, etc., check out the neighborhood and see if it seems to be ripe for development. You don't want to be tossed out if the place is sold.

Another thing to do is talk to a lot of the people who live there and see if there are any bully cliques. Yes, like in high school. I lived in a lovely, medium sized complex when I was in my early twenties. There was a cabal of middle aged people (by looks) who might have been retired (by the amount of time they had to meddle) who complained to the manager that I swam in the pool during the day (Imagine! Swimming in a swimming pool! In the middle of the day!) and used the party room, which I booked a week in advance for time during the day when it was seemingly always empty, to work on choreography, when they wanted to play cards (hint--book the room if you want to use it). They were really mad when I told them it was my room to use for my booked time. I didn't mind if they wanted to come in and play cards on the other side of the room, but they didn't like my music. Too bad! Just because there are four of you doesn't trump my room reservation. They also complained when I came home late at night. I wasn't loud or "altered" or anything, didn't bring people home, but I had work that often got me home after midnight. How dare I drive in and park my car (I tried really hard not to slam the door or anything loud)? The Navy couple downstairs with the baby never had any issues with me, or my footfalls or my music (I did try to be aware of when the baby might be napping). Just those folks who wanted to rule the place and never see or hear anyone who wasn't in their little group. I've heard lots of similar stories, but some places the manager keeps a firm hand on any such attempts to dominate, and keeps them from being an issue.

I never even thought of looking for packs of b's, thanks for the heads up.

lucille, are you thinking of moving to a true apartment situation (rented instead of owned) or attached housing (like a condo that could be rented OR owned) ?

plog, I think the situation you're describing isn't one commonly encountered or something to be wary of.

Retirees are notorious for having plenty of time to gripe! The smaller the issue, the bigger the noise about it. We are worse than little kids with too much spare time.

Well I agree with you pllog. My family owned apts. and currently extended family own several up north and in San Francisco. The type of issues you describe are quite common and a headache for the landlords as well.

I find that my senior friends who live in apts. are generally happiest in the ones that are strictly senior housing. In our area it's mostly family housing now and true senior housing is getting scarce.

Houzz has an Apartment Living forum here that may be helpful or scare the daylights out of one . http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/apt

I live in a condo, mortgage free, for almost 15 years and love it!

Hardly, plog. No need to feel that way.

You experienced something I haven't. Should I agree with you that it's a common problem that should be asked about if I don't think it is? To the contrary, i think asking questions as you suggest would seem a bit odd and might not leave a good impression with the rental agent concerning the prospective tenant.

Maybe you're thinking of this? (Not my style but funny all the same)

Argument Clinic

Watchmelol thank you for the link, there is a lot of interesting reading there. It looks like there are some common situations in apartment living, so all I need to do is read the link and think ahead of time of how to respond if a situation arises.

I'm thinking back trying to remember my past apartment experiences from long ago. I don't remember any particular horror stories.

The senior housing has a waiting list. There is another nice complex I have been considering, they currently have no apartments for rent either. I am thinking both must be well run places, as there are others with space available. One apartment complex I contacted but subsequently decided I did not want wrote back that they even have rental specials. I think it is worthwhile waiting for the ones I really want. Plus, that will give me time to reconsider my decisions. (The thought of roaming gangs of B's gave me pause, I hate cliques and do not want to spend whatever time I have left on earth wasting time with people like that).

No, Snidely, you don't have to agree with me. But I supported my statement by saying that many of my friends had similar experiences. Rather than calling me out and contradicting my assertion with no information other than "I think", as if you were the grand high poobah who knows all and whose pronouncements are law, you could have said, that you hadn't experienced it, to the group rather than to me, and therefore wouldn't worry about it. That's a normative opposing opinion. My own opinion is that you find it fun to contradict me whenever you can. That opinion was formed by observing your behavior.

As to your question: No, you don't ask the rental agent about the bully cliques. You talk to the residents you can meet while touring the place and chat them up. Ask what it's like living there and if the people are nice, and if there are any groups that run the place. I know you don't like talking to people, SW, but most people like talking about themselves and like answering questions, and can be pretty darned honest about it. You can learn a lot by asking questions.

Lucille,

I think you're wise to get in the places you like best. A rental special is like a rebate on a car, it's a way of lowering the price and providing an incentive without nominally lowering the price. When there is seasonal turnover, like a place where people rent for just the Winter or Summer, or where there is a university and a lot of students, a rent special, like half price for three months, can get units filled earlier, and actually bring in more income long term. Otherwise, it means that the rents are just too high for the area and they're trying to trick thin headed people into paying more long term than they think they will, or they're trying to pretend to themselves or their directors that their rent height is really okay when it just can't be sustained. Or that the place is a dump that no one wants.

Generally, well run, pleasant places, with good storage, good location, good light, etc., have fewer vacancies and lower turnover, but nil turnover is rare. The senior living is an exception. Most people move to that kind of place expecting it to be their last moves until the nursing home, and it's usually chosen to fit their retirement budgets so the cost is okay. If they do move just to change house, it's often because the kids have moved, or they want adventure and move to an ex-pat haven or university senior housing, or some other new thing. One reason why a general population place may have nil vacancies for some time, however, is if it's underpriced (including rent controlled). When longevity of residence gets you a lot more than you're paying for, there's a big incentive to stay, or even to transfer to a friend or family member if you move.

Reading some of the posts tells ya that you can have an undesirable neighbor anywhere. Whether you rent an apt or buy a home. You can poll the neighbors to find out what you can about a place. But that may not help. Because the person living next door today may be long gone tomorrow. Let's face it...it's a crap shoot at best. You find the best built, best equipped, best decorated, best maintained, safest neighborhood. Then make it your home.

"I know you don't like talking to people, SW,"

This comment isn't for anyone in particular, but someone who feels this way doesn't know me at all. Who I don't like talking to is bored (and usually boring) chatty people who think intrusive and nosey attempts at conversation with any stranger in random places (waiting in line at a store, for example) are universally welcome. They may be with some, but not with me. Other voices agreed with my comments in part.

I'm not a self-appointed poobah and have no aspirations as such. Accuse me of using direct language, I try but am not always successful with tempering comments. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

You may have had good reason for those feelings but I'm sure you were happy to move elsewhere. I don't think feelings of suffering persecution from other residents are common for most apartment dwellers

One very useful tool for anyone who is checking out an area is a service called Spotcrime that will show you what crimes and where they took place in a specific area.

Although the area I want to move to (the same town I moved from four years ago) is generally very safe, Spotcrime shows denser crime activity in apartment areas, I guess because there is denser population compared to single family housing.

However, I checked out the Spotcrime for apartments near my son's house in Houston and there is no way I would live there, the incidence of more violent crime seems much higher.

"You can learn a lot by asking questions."

This is absolutely one of the very best ways to find out about a neighborhood.

Lucille, that sounds very useful! I've seen those maps on home purchase sites, but not general purpose. I think you're right about the population density. More targets and more potential dobadders. Also, there is less personal and emotional investment into neighborhood quality when one doesn't have an ownership stake, and homeowners are more stable/rooted.

Nope, SW, it wasn't about my feelings. It was complaints to the manager, who conveyed them to me rather than shutting them down. The difference in the properties my company manages is that we expect the managers to manage this kind of thing, rather than letting cliques of tenants try to dictate how the place is run. I won't accuse you of using direct language, because you don't. You use self serving language with a great bent toward condescension and often insult people when they disagree with you. That's deflective, not direct.

Reread the sequence - I said in just a few words that I disagreed with you, it could have ended with that. Yet you replied with a personal comment not about the topic but about me. An insult, and several more followed, yet you accuse me of that which you do?

That's fine.

True. I've spoken about a cumulative sum of behavior. Didn't mean an insult. Just trying to get you to see how others regard such utterances.

The unintended part I hear but doubt.

See. You contradict even what I say about myself and my own intentions!

I did not mean to insult you. If you wish not to believe me, that's your loss. I was trying to point out why I said what I did that you always seem to need to contradict me no matter what I say.

My apologies to Lucille and the other posters.

sounds like it's all covered, but I will add one short thought Lucille, you are very right about limited hearing being beneficial in an apartment setting. My mom cannot hear, and is very happy in her condo. Her biggest worry is that she will have the tv too loud for her neighbors. When it gets to be late at night, she just pops out her hearing aids and dozes off happily noise free.

I just went back to read some more. Um, you're wrong snidely. I had the EXACT same thing happen to me at an apartment I rented. I am never the noisy one. I don't listen to my tv or radio loudly. Ever. I don't have parties, and back then, I went to my friends' places if I wanted to socialize. I lived alone and I tried hard to be quiet. Did my very best to be respectful. I've had many many neighbors who play their music loudly all night long. Often. I've never once been like that. Did I get a notice I was being too loud? Yep. Never any place else, never had any problems before or since. It was the particular tenants. Plllog, you're not alone. I wouldn't doubt this could be an often occurrence since you described my situation to a T!

Rob

A few years back my son bought me a bluetooth device that has earphones that receive the TV sound so only I can hear it. It works well but I don't use it all the time since although I have neighbors, the living room is situated on the corner of the house away from the neighbors (I live on a corner). Your Mom might look into getting one, because for me, the TV has to be turned up pretty loud.

I am reconsider my apartment thoughts, at the very least I'm going to take my time, and do more research including talking to tenants. I've narrowed down the choice of complexes to only two, with one being the senior complex. Both have waitlists anyway.

I just do not want to get involved in something as ridiculous yet potentially damaging to my enjoyment of life as a bunch of bullying biddies. I have no doubt that I could handle them, but the time and aggravation doing so isn't what I want to spend time doing.

You are very right about taking your time! I hope you end up as happy as AAA is her place.

My mom has a hearing device that runs by bluetooth into her hearing aids, somewhat similar. When she wears it ;)

I am newly reconsidering a move to an apartment. Thank you Watchmelol for the link to the apartment forum.

The vast majority of complaints posted on that forum have to do with noise. I don't know how much one can hear from an apartment next door, I do snore sometimes, lol. As far as myself, I am hearing impaired so sounds bother me less.

It all depends on how well the building is built. I live in an apartment building, with just 3 apartments in it, one on each floor. I do hear the tv from the apt below me. She's elderly and hard of hearing.

On the other hand, the large multi-floored buildings across the street have concrete between the floors and walls, and are very soundproof. A friend lives there, and he says it's too quiet! LOL

Some senior-living communities in my area have guest apartments that you can stay in for a night to two, to better determine if you want to live there. Just a thought.

A lot of places have Facebook groups you can join for an individual apartment complex, Condo community and Sub divisions. Take the time to read their boards most of these places don't have a resident requirement. In the first few minutes of reading their Facebook group you will find out who the complainers are, who hates the place, who loves the place and of course the cliques of people who bring it upon themselves to be the voice of the community complaining about this or rallying the community against the management companies. I have seen it all.

Before I bought my house after I looked at a potential property I was interested in I would join the Facebook community and research what people had to say about the place from people that actually lived there. I was amazed lol at the amount of people who would scream about how awful their community was and how they were selling their home to escape said awful community. I once pointed out that there was people like me looking to purchase in their community and I could have been interested in their home but because of all the negative comments they basically shot themselves in the foot because I was now no longer interested in the community. Most of the complaints I see are not bad and mostly people moving into an area with an HOA and getting mad when they get fined for not following the rules. But sometimes there is valuable information in those posts about crimes or trouble with people in the community that is very useful in making a decision. You are able to ask them questions while on the page as well.

I have lived in 2 communities and I have found that both had their group of too much time on their hands people. Including the one I live in now. They are the people who feel they should be the rule enforcers or the people who feel if a rule is not to their liking that they should be the voice of the community to have it changed whether most of us in the community are fine with the rule or not. Because they don't like something it should be law. Most of us just laugh shake our heads and when our meetings come up we vote and they get shot down.

Apartment rents can keep going up. In Silicon Valley in 4 years the rent for a 1 BR went from $1500 to over $3000. If you buy a condo or townhouse your monthly cost would stay the same. Something to think aboùt.

Why don't you two do a live chat and get over it. Keep this board friendly.

I was upset when I lost my house and had to move back into an apartment. I have learned to love it, especially when my friends tell the cost of getting things fixed. I just call the manager, and he fixes it.

Cacocobird, friends of ours did the same thing. They sold their house and moved into a 3 bedroom apartment, with underground parking. One rent check per month, and the cable and phone and that's it. Utilities are included as well. They absolutely love it. We were over last weekend for dinner and I asked her if she missed her house. The only thing she misses is her old kitchen; she wishes this one were bigger.

If you buy a condo or townhouse your monthly cost would stay the same.

That is absolutely not always the case. Not only do rising taxes and insurance change what you pay as far as the monthly 'maintenance' payment at a condo, but they have from time to time 'special assessments' that can amount to thousands extra in a year.

I expect rents will rise for the same reason, that taxes and insurance will rise for the apartment complex owners.

I can see the Silicon Valley dramatic rise because of the location, but in a more ordinary area, competition will limit profit taking, if the same apt. is available two complexes over for half the price, that is where people will go.

Aprile, thank you for your detailed post, and thank you everyone who is posting ideas.

Why don't you two do a live chat and get over it. Keep this board friendly.

Judy, I value all the posts here even those I may not agree with. People are taking their time to help me and I appreciate them for doing so.

"If you buy a condo or townhouse your monthly cost would stay the same."

Not necessarily so. In 78 years, I've lived in every possible structure...apartments, private homes, condos and townhouses. The least offensive cost wise is an apartment.

You may acquire a mortgage [fixed monthly payment of sorts] with a condo/townhouse...but there's almost always an association monthly management fee required in addition to your personal ownership arrangements. Unfortunately, it's rarely static. In the 30 years that I've lived in my current townhouse...my monthly management fee has gone from $79/mo when brand new to its current $312/mo. Someone has to pay for new roofs, roadway resurfacing, pool maintenance, landscaping, general maintenance, etc. And it's the owner/occupant who foots the bill via a percentage of ownership formula.

Best advice if you're looking to buy a townhouse/condo...request an association financial statement along with other pertinent documentation BEFORE you buy. Then have your attorney...or other trusted advisor review it. Look for "assessments"...for extra ordinary property maintenance expenses above and beyond the regular monthly management fee. In most cases, a seller must satisfy any current assessments before selling...but...assessments often indicate the success...or lack thereof...of money management/planning by the association.

My home is in a lovely bucolic setting but I pay for this privilege of looking out my window at all this attractive flora and fauna. Currently...I'm patiently tolerating the noise and [literally] vibrating interference of having parking lots resurfaced. Would I change my mode of living if I had the opportunity? Probably not. But I was well aware of all the expenses of living this way before I bought...and I'd had my fill of private property.

Lucille -- Are you still considering a move? I'm just checking because your original post goes back 18 months.

I had considered it and just never moved forward with the idea. But a recent bout of poison ivy along with a huge yard work cleanup project that left me more than exhausted brought up the thought again.

Whether it will actually happen I don't know, I have to research, look at apartments, talk to a realtor. One thing I still have to research is the relative safety of apartments compared to my home which is safe and arranged so that anyone with breaking in on their mind would go elsewhere.

My younger son is coming over this weekend, I have stuff cluttering the attic bedroom, he is going to bring it downstairs and I'm getting rid of it. So whatever ultimately happens, decluttering and cleaning out the cabinets will be a plus.

We live in a high-rent gated apartment complex my main complaints being the breezeways/fronts are not kept free enough of clutter, cigarette, butts, candy papers, etc., and the fact that $40 a month is extra for every pet. Otherwise quiet and beautifully landscaped.

For me, the only drawback is the noise level of your neighbors. I grew up in apartments. As a child, it was sometimes difficult to keep as quiet as a neighbor would like.

As a young adult in my first apartment, I was lucky to have quiet neighbors. it was a prewar building so maybe that helped with noise control.

If you are going into an over 55 community, then you will probably have mostly like-minded neighbors.

I would want a unit that offers the most privacy and the quietest, if possible. You will have to do lots of research before buying.

We almost bought a condo in a gated community as a second home. We walked the neighborhood and spoke to a few of the owners. One explained how he looked forward to the snowbirds leaving as he heard all the sound in the above unit.

Instead of buying a townhouse or condo, you could look into renting one instead. The problem with a lot of apartments is everything is typically pretty used up and getting the apartment owners to replace something can be challenging. Plus in apartment communities, the landscape is always changing with people moving in and out. The last time we moved in California, we rented a condo instead and to me, the quality of the neighborhood and even the unit we lived in was much better.

The downside of renting is that you can be at the mercy of the owner. They don't have to renew your lease.

I think renting can be a good way to test an area and even a building. Like Lukki suggests, if you rent a condo, you might like it enough to buy one in the building.

I was seriously looking at a townhouse or condo as I became more and more crippled. I like the house I have - it's a manageable size. Nice sized lot and many things about it that are positives. Started looking into apartments. Unless I went to a pretty high priced unit, there's still the issue of the clientele that many lower priced apartments tend to draw. No offense to anyone but it's a fact of housing. Then there's the turnover issues. Been a long time since I dealt with apartment managers and mine weren't bad but they didn't jump the minute called and from the people I've talked to living in apartments around here now it hasn't changed. There's a different lifestyle in an apartment. Walk down the hallway and you'll smell the combination of what everyone is cooking. The smells of the people who have to burn stench candles to cover the other smells they have. Some just can't handle fresh air.

If you can luck out and find a nice apartment somewhere, it can be nice. There's assisted living areas, senior buildings, etc. A friend lives in a pretty nice senior apartment and rent is very cheap because of subsidies. A big problem I noticed is common in apartment life and that's parking availability. Seldom is there adequate parking even for the residents to say nothing of visitors. Although there are some reserved spots for some of the residents, for some reason a few of them will only park in the guest area and even claim certain spots as their own. I parked in the space designated for guests and one bird cackled like crazy until I agreed to move since I was in "her" spot. Personally, I would have stayed where I was (there were 5 other unoccupied parking spots there - 3 were closer to the door!) but my friend said this woman likes making trouble for everyone and complaining nonstop so I moved to lessen the impact on my friend. Oh, and I wasn't "allowed" to park in any of the other open spots - I was supposed to park in the fire lane. "They allow parking there". (sigh)

Townhouse and condo. Regulations in most areas around here have tightened up on townhouses and condos to eliminate many of the problems. The big problem you have is association fees. They're generally what I consider pretty hefty. And dealing with the associations is another issue. Many people like to hang laundry outside again. Seems to be coming back in style. However, few if any, associations will allow it. They control things quite tightly. You have less freedom in "association living".

After weighing the costs of moving, the costs of a different place, hassles, etc, I decided to stay where I am. I hired people to mow and shovel. I've hired people to do some of the maintenance around here. MUCH cheaper than association fees and I maintain the privacy and benefits of living in my house.

I still am weighing the possibility of moving to a smaller house in a smaller community. Cost of that would be dramatically lower than a townhouse or condo and actually in most cases would be cheaper than apartment living.

Cynic, you may be right. I was checking out the crime statistics and many Galveston (where I was looking) apartments have more crime, not just the petty theft that happens in my area but lists of assaults. I found a few really nice apartments in a great area but the rent was very high.

I have to admit that while there are aggravations in home ownership, my area is relatively safe, and I have nice neighbors. Also after installing my picket fence with a locking gate, I have almost absolute privacy.

After selling my home and running into some inspection issues with the home I wanted to buy, and with still trying to deal with the effects of the recent flood that ruined half my stuff I decided to move into an apartment where if something happens I can just call the management to fix it. I found a beautiful apartment, will get to look at it this Saturday. I was lucky to get it, the complex is almost completely full after the flood where many are renting because their homes had severe flood damage.

Thanks for the update. Let us know how things work out.

That is lucky. I hope it is what you need and it is an enjoyable place for you.

That certainly sounds promising. Hope it is everything you wish for and more. Keep us updated after you see it on Saturday.

Excuse me if I'm repeating something here. My friend lived in various apartments over the years. Mostly it was ok, but she did not appreciate noise from the adjacent apartment through the wall or heavy footsteps on the apartment above. If on the top floor, it was hot and created more expense of air conditioning. Otherwise it was ok for people who don't mind that style of communal living.

I lived in apartments while working my way through college, and then came marriage. We lived in apartments for 3 years and then had a starter house built for us. Apartment living was 57 yrs ago; We have been living in houses owned by us every since. At this point, we do not have intentions of anything else, however, a life changing event could make a change. Poor health or the loss of a partner would change our stance.

I went to look at the apartment, it is nice but tiny, under 700sf. The apartments I remember from 40 years ago were pretty much no frills. This one has a washer and dryer, a built in computer table, beautiful windows, there are two nice pools at the complex, grill areas, a 24 hour fitness area, a socializing area, dog stations, paths to a nearby parklike area, and is gated. It is immaculate and the staff so far have been wonderfully helpful.

I'm sure every living situation has its plusses and minuses, but I will be very happy not to have to fix stuff for a while.