The quick response is that plants seem a bit jumbled up. It would read stronger if they were arranged in groups of like plants. The exact geometry would require seeing the complete, overall bed from a couple of different angles. (that means pictures that can be reassembled together to form a panoramic view.)

Was hoping that the two top pictures could be put together to give the panoramic of the bed. They were taken right next to each other. Are they not right? Need better pictures?

I see now. The pictures are dark and it was a quick look. However, wouldn't the primary, most important point of view be from the porch? If so, we should see pictures taken from there. So far, I'm not thinking it needs another tree. Seems like another one would compete with the existing. There are distant trees in the background and that is enough, I think. In general, need to group same size shrubs (or eliminate some). Keep them away from the tree. Taller material to the back, shorter to the front.

I don't usually disagree with Yardvaark, but the advice "Taller material to the back, shorter to the front" really does not apply to a bed that is viewed from all sides. The taller material (in general) should be toward the middle of the bed, shorter on the sides of it. In this case, since it seems to be a long bed, there could be a "spine" of taller material down the center of the bed along the length of the bed with the shorter on either side.

This bed could also probably be improved by judicious use of evergreen shrubs of some sort, either conifers or broad leaf. Or both of course.

If the bed is viewed in the round, I agree with laceyvail about the "spine" being located more or less centrally within the bed, though, also, I don't think I would include much height to begin with. If it is viewed in the round but primarily from the porch, then I think that the "spine" should be pushed toward the back of the bed, though not all the way to the back. A picture that clarifies how the bed sits within the overall lawn would help determine where the height should be in the bed. Is it intended that the bed provides screening of what looks like the neighbor's buildings that show up in the background?

I see how the suggestion of Yardvaarks to group like plants would be good and likely I should eliminate some plants. Where and how to place these groupings and sizes of plants is my problem. And what plants should be seen from the front side of this bed, along the rock edge of the pond where the tree comes up? Right now you see grasses and they don't look well places now in winter. What plants should peek over the edge and be seen if any, when viewing this side while standing from the "wicked" end looking on? You really don't see much of the full bed from that side. The bed is not intended to screen the neighbors shed. I have been trying to get Leyland Cypress to grow on the far edge of the property to do that, but the deer keep destroying them!! The bed is just there to have something on that side to look nice when you go around that side and when coming from the guest house. Thanks Yardvaark!

Lacyvail, I appreciate your comments too. I feel I do need some evergreens, but I don't know what sizes to use and where to place them to make it look right. I know it is difficult to see, but when looking at the full length, I have planted some shorter evergreens that fan out there in the middle section in front - they will be about 1 1/2 ft. or so full grown. In between are some carpet roses, which aren't visible right now. Would you suggest a different type of evergreen? Place these I have in a different way? Also, on the left side is a larger fanning evergreen that is a mix of bright and dark green fronds. Spine idea? Groupings? I don't know how to envision it. Should I give better pictures of something?

I'm still wishing for better pictures. Some with better lighting from a viewpoint that you consider to be the most important view. Wish you would include more space to the left and right of the bed so as to give a feel for context and surroundings. I think it would be easier to help you if we could see the bed well.

I noticed the trees have dropped their leaves. Are there any plants missing - gone for the winter?

I think this is a situation where a layout in plan view would be really helpful. It's hard to visualize the relationships of things just from the pictures and description (not to mention, some of the plants can't be seen now since it's winter.) Can you draw a sketch showing the key features: bed shape, pond, tree, relation to house and lot line, and indicate using arrows which views are most important to you? You probably don't need to draw in all the plants, just the general outline to get placement and height suggestions.

Edited to add: I just saw the new pictures in your other thread, which are helpful! But it would be easier if you just have one thread going instead of 2. Maybe add those pics to this thread and let the other one die?

ok Yardvaark, not a very bright day today, but hopefully these pictures will help you get a sense of the context. Two viewpoints are important -- this one running from the left along to the right of this bed, and also the viewpoint standing from the porch looking at the pond full on which includes the front side of the left end of this bed.

A couple more pictures from different angles:

And so it's all together . . .

Nicholsworth, there are quite a few deciduous plants missing in the picture, but I think it's better that way - more of a blank slate and less messy! So that you all can show me better sizes and scale of plants that I need in the bed instead of what's there! I'll take from what I have then, to fit in where appropriate when I have a better sense of how to place plants in better spots.

Sorry Atmoscat, wish I knew how to paint on the photos for you. To me, most of the plants that are currently in the bed are not likely helpful anyway. The only significant tree is the one you see in the middle of the bed, A Bridal Wreath Spirea (going to get too large) is on the left end of the bed and a Wine and Roses shrub is on the right end. Three low-growing evergreens are spread out in the center section with two carpet roses in between. That is about the extent of the structure. Also the 3 x 4ft evergreen at the edge of the pond which is on the front side of the left end of the bed I am asking about. The other thread was meant to be a separate issue at the beginning. Was trying to make it easier by separating the two gardens. Ignore it if you need to. Thank you for your imput!

I'm not a pro just a plant lover and obsessed with gardening...figured the "gaps" might not always be gaps & decided to ask. I have a wooded lot whereas you have more light. I would sure try to grow some paniculata hydrangeas if I were u. Seen fantastic photos of them. I have some but they're new - fall 2015. Yours will outperform mine with more light but I couldn't resist...

Yes, I think they are beautiful too and would like some somewhere, but it seems I can't find a good spot for them. Probably too large to put in this bed, it seems from the comments I have heard already. I too am a plant lover but don't do well envisioninig and landscaping, I get into trouble because I try to cram too many in and it ends up looking overgrown and messy! I am trying to be good now, and get things straightened out. Thank you for responding!

Only other thought I have. I like paths thru large beds. If it's acessible from all sides u might not need it but when I moved here previous homeowner had plants with groundcover that had grown into LARGE beds. No access to weed or clip or pick up debris. I put a path thru it. Like it much better.

Thanks! I like them too. At least stepping stones. Will likely incorporate something of that nature.

Some ideas I'm trying to get across are:

Smooth out the bed line, keeping the circularity. Make sure there is good distance from tree to edge of bed.

At the upper side, consider adding some paving stones to create a landing (at grade) as a physical and visual invitation to the water. Where stones meet lawn, they should be inlaid flush, like paving.

Delete all shrubs that will become tall.

Train/prune the tree in order to develop some separation from lower plants and bottom of canopy. (This will occur over time, but urge it forward.)

On opposite side of water from tree, I placed a shrub at water's edge that would be about 3' height with a greater spread. A "weeping" quality would be nice. I would think of all the other plantings as groundcovers. I've recommended heights, but it would be perfectly fine/desirable to include plants where the bloom sticks up well above the foliage ... daylilies for example. These areas could be subdivided more than what I've shown, if you need that for greater interest. But do too much of that and it will start to look busy or junky. With this new picture, there doesn't seem to be any background to screen, so in my mind, there is no reason to have plantings that grow tall and obstruct view beyond.

Just a note on picture taking ... I noticed that when taking pictures, you moved a little between each shot. In this case, I wiped out a lot of the background. If I hadn't, you'd be seeing duplicates of some background elements more times than you'd see them in real life. For future pictures, it is MUCH better to take ALL pictures of one scene from the same exact spot. You'd just pivot the camera while staying in place. That way the pictures are much easier to reassemble and look as close to normal as if one was standing on site.

Well, it sure looks really pretty in the drawing you've made! I'm going to have to adjust quite a bit to make it happen like that, but it will be better in the end if I can manage it. It's way different than what I thought I was asking for, so I have some thinking to do! I am glad for the sizes and plant height guides. That will be a big help! Thank you so much for all your work and suggestions, Yardvaark! I always look forward to what you will come up with!

Thanks too for telling me how to take better pictures. I didn't realize that the way I was doing it made that much difference.

Very good drawing from Yardvaark, as usual. I still think you would benefit from learning to map out a bed. Whenever you see a beautiful bed it most likely was planned first. The plans are drawn from an overhead view. Like this:

Yes emmarene, I KNOW. You are so right about that, but I don't know where to start with that because I have a hard time envisioning when I don't know what to aim for. I wish they did, but books don't seem to help me. Maybe I'll run up on a good class some time. I appreciate the nudging!

Question for you Yardvaark. Considering these two beautiful designs that you done for me, would you suggest that I keep the two pavered sections separate from each other or bring them together somehow? - the pond garden area being pretty much directly across from the porch design. Just leave the grass in between?

Now that I see the pond in the daylight I am seeing how it will come together nicely! It all gives a peaceful feeling that I wanted! Thanks again!

Whether you connect the two areas with paving or leave them separated by the grass strip is optional. If the paving extends from porch to pond it could be quite nice, but it is also more work and expense. If it remains grass it will definitely be nicer if the grass is improved and made weed-free in that area.

Wonderful! Thank you again, so very much. you've been great! And I'm also learning from you!

I would strive to keep plantings very low (if you can see the pond from the porch) between the porch and pond so that you scan see water. I always enjoyed seeing the light playing off of the pond surface from my favorite seating area. Taller plants will screen your view.

Yes, good point. The plan is for the lowest ground cover in the dark green of the diagram to be 12" and under. And the ground cover in the lighter green in the picture to be around 18" for around the tree. The top picture would be what I see from the porch so I shouldn't have anything obstructing the view.

JJgiles have you thought of what plants you will use for the twelve inch groundcover? This is the time of year to plan. It does not need to be the same groundcover all around the bed.

Yes, been trying to make the most of this time - been making lists of of 12" and 18" groundcovers that I have to see what I can work together. So far for 12" I have: hardy geranium, Firewitch, sedum Angelina, sedum John Creech, plumbago, cheddar pinks, snow-in-summer, creeping jenny, creeping phlox, ajuga, and yellow allysum on my list for that size. Any f those make good companions?

I grow ajuga, hardy plumbago and similar sedums and they are all nice, ground huggers in my shady garden.

I like them too, and would like to use them somewhere in the bed. I'm looking for good combinations. My garden is a sun garden, but what plants do you use these with in your garden?

You might want to reconsider snow-in-summer (if you mean Cerastium Tomentosum) which is gorgeous when first sprouting through bloom, but then IME turns somewhat ratty looking for the rest of the season. Creeping jenny can be an aggressive spreader, both via seed and rooting stems, and IMO does better in a pot where it can be readily controlled rather than in a garden bed. Creeping phlox looks great after bloom in some areas, but doesn't look good in others, so I'd check to see if anyone in your area grows it to see how it does during the summer. The rest look fine to me. I'd also consider some of the creeping thymes.

Thanks Babs, I agree with your assessment of these three - that is pretty much the way they do here too. Not bad in certain spots but probably don't want it in big swaths. What Creeping Thyme do you like?

High Country Gardens carry some very nice creeping thymes. I prefer the very flat ones, though I can't remember their names. They are NOT, however, at all weed suppressing, and weeding them can be a real pain. Ask me how I know!

The creeping thymes in pictures look so bright and pretty, but the flowers dont really show well on the one I have - though it makes great spaghetti sauce! Would like to know of any that are showy.