why only to Brent? There are many grafters in the U.S. who are very good at propagating conifers. It's always best to send scionwood to at least 5 different people.

Also it muddles things terribly when plants get named and described too early. It often takes 5 - 10 years to evaluate a new plant, especially if it comes from a witch's broom to ensure that it's worthy of introduction to the nursery trade.

Its very simply, Glaciers End.

Brent Markus & Sam Pratt are co-authors of the american conifer book. There are 5 authors, me and 4 americans.

If you send him anything, it would be listed and documented for the future. If you send anything to colleagues, who are unknown for me, or do not inform me, these will be never listed in this book without informations.

Years ago I was informed by european friends about your doug broom, not of you. Friends are always good to achive.

You know there is a difference between usual separeting methods and brooms. If you have a seedbed, it takes really many time to introduce any new plants. Exception is if you found a broom, because a broom is ready and guaranted unique. It must be just grafted and in 2-3 years you can sell them. Meanwhile you may watching a seedbed selection even up to many years. You may believe me, I described 14000 brooms since 2010 with my co-author colleagues.

Zsolt conifertreasury.org

The answer is simply a difference in philosophy.

You speak of Pseudotsuga menziesii var. menziesii 'DuPont Dynamite.' That plant was first harvested only 4 years ago. To my knowledge there are not been any F2 propagations of this cultivar, meaning no one knows if it will remain stable over time. Further it's impossible to know whether it is prone to reversion as it ages, or whether it will spontaneously die. All of these are factors that need to be considered before a plant is introduced and published.

You see it's a question of quality vs quantity. Trust me when I tell you that if a new find is to stand the test of time it doesn't matter how many people propagate it.

That is a long believed standard protocol - that a new selection of any garden plant should be evaluated for years before being named and dispersed. The more years the better. With conifer variants in particular common issues include reversion of colored foliage forms to green, reversion of dwarf forms to typical growth, and invigoration of dwarf forms by grafting onto stocks of normal vigor.

Frequently seen examples of these occurrences include golden Lawson and Sawara cypress cultivars aging to green, typical Alberta spruce bursting freakishly out of the tops of long-established dwarf Alberta spruce, and grafted dwarf Hinoki cypress cultivars forming shrubs or even small trees multiple times the described sizes of the original selections.

Glaciers End,

please, you don't need any F2 or F3 propagation from a grafted broom. Its ready on the tree as found.

Some years ago I visited yearly a friend of mine. He has a garden with over 1000 Pinus mugo brooms since 2000. All brooms are grafted on high understocks, and look the same as in an other collection. Thats why I say, that a broom is ready.

Your Dynamite will look as found, as usual, grafted on dougs.

Its not a simply match to organize anything in a very very big land liks America. You know in 2010 I found 60 conifer breeders in Hungary (10 million people). By this way we can suppose that in the US and Canada may live even 3-4000 people, who ever found a new conifer. Its impossible for me to detect so many people. I also thought earlier, that American Conifer Society - where I'm a member since 1991 - could have started a movement for collecting new conifers with the ~2000 members. I tried it sometimes, but probably the massages were not arrived to the centrals. Nobody helped me, just the co-authors. By this way are we now at 8500 american conifers.

I have also big successes, too. There was born a movement to find brooms on virgin specieses. The matter found by enthuisasts is a prime category. There were born the first brooms of Pinus torreyana (Tom Cox, Dan Spear), Pinus pungens (Scott Antrim, Johnny Withrow), Pinus washoensis (Scott Antrim's parents), Pinus lambertiana (Dan Spear) and the long ago forgotten southern pines are also in the lists (Pinus attenuata by Sevcik & Holubec CZ), Pinus echinata (Johnny Withrow). These are historic finds. The new finds were published since 2010 on the gardenweb. People saw that the neighbours found what in the forest next. They went also to their forests to find a broom. At this point science found a straight way to people. They do not have to fear, that comes someone later, who asks things, which are not undersandable.

Zsolt conifertreasury.org

Embothrium,

I guess your standard protocol is a different one as I'm speaking. I'd like to know what we have, and the future of the findings is not my job. I'm not an authority, who gives you any permissions to introduce a conifer. In this sence I have no borders and not waiting for impossible permissions. If the authors want to introduce their findings, they can use the US Patents or any other ways.

As I'm not an authority, I don't take me any problems, which I do not need. I collect useful datas for the biodiversity without protocols.

On the other hand the brooms are not the only exceptions from the "usual" protocol. I foundan other way for conifer selections, I named it urban conifering. http://www.conifertreasury.org/start.jsp?mt=318

This shows the selecting of aged conifers. There are a lot of things, which are not remarkable in a seedbed in 3-4 years. Many differences are able to see first after 10-20 years. By this way I separated about 10 kinds of Picea pungens seedlings, which were seen only on great and aged conifers. After a while all spruces took a columnar form, but not of beeing fastigiate, but becoming pendulous with branchlets turning down. You can search Picea pungens MPH series on my portal, almost all are like this.

Zsolt conifertreasury.org

Your first statement is incorrect. Only after 10-15 years, will we know for sure what the final product will look like or whether it's viable long term.

The question that needs to be asked is what is healthier for the study of conifer cultivars, 1000 Pinus mugo or Picea abies cultivars that all look the same or 15 to 20 unique selections?

I would argue that of the 26,555 listed cultivars listed on ConiferTreasury.org, 75-80% of them are either extinct, redundant or trivial. It would be far less overwhelming if enthusiasts had only 5000 or less to think about.

Another thing to think about is that I'm holding onto two unique Abies amabilis brooms. Time will tell if these become important enough to be released.

I'm not incorrect, in the last 50 years nobody told it me. You may have other opinion, but for that open an other page, please. Your posts are hurting me personally.

About Abies amabilis 'Hoyt HB' it's not amabilis but a broom of Abies lasiocarpa ! by this way it's : Abies lasiocarpa 'Hoyt HB'

Abies balsamea 'Densa' are also a lasiocarpa.

Abies nebrodensis 'Sicilian Gold' don't exist, it's Abies veitchii 'Sicilian Gold'

Abies squamata 'Flakey' don't exist, it's just the true species !

Picea 'Howell's Dwarf are a jezoensis cv not a bicolor.

Picea (jezoensis)'Chitosemaru' 'DJ Broom', are Picea glehnii cv.

The problem of selecting a single source of grafting is that there will always be the question of cronyism. Whether that is justified or not, the possibility taints the process. Any appearance of self serving interests should be avoided.

A possible solution would be to source the scions to members of the American Conifer Society who are in good standing. I can think of a dozen such members off the top of my head. Surely there are many more that would love to be included.

Severnside, I guess you think on very characterictic brooms or plants, which are absolutely unique and light identificable. These are very few. If you find a plant like Picea sitchensis 'Foxtail', you can be sure you never forget it.

Picea sitchensis ’Foxtail’ conifertreasury.org photo

Picea sitchensis ’Foxtail’ conifertreasury.org photo

Picea sitchensis ’Foxtail’ conifertreasury.org photo in the Clément Anthoine Pinetum

The chance for it is absolutely minimal. Nobody can be sure, that his finds will be VERY different. Any nursery are able to choose 2 or more brooms, which he prefers. Its not my business, I (we) offered 3000 Pinus mugo, they hope to sell so many as choosen. My (our) acticity is different from the nurseries.

Zsolt

@Baxswoh, the big danger of sending all new cultivars to one grower is the risk of "cornering the market." If one grower has all existing examples of something new and exciting, what's to prevent them from selling fresh grafts of unproven cultivars for $100 each?

answer: Nothing. I've seen it happen.

@Clement, there are many (1000s) of nomenclature issues in Zsolt's database. I don't think it's possible to resolve the all. Nonetheless, it's very important to identify and correct them as they occur. It's poison to allow them to remain.

By the way, I believe that Picea bicolor = alcoquiana now.

Dear Clément, Hoyt Arboretum says Abies amabilis, Bob Stewart of Arrowhead told maybe lasiocarpa, you say straight lasiocarpa. I try to balance around the middle till comes someone who has knowledge enough to decide and close this story.

Abies balsamea 'Densa': this is the first that anyone suggest a change to lasiocarpa. I don't know. The same is with Abies nebrodensis 'Sicilian Gold'. Abies squamata I agree, its the Flaky fir in english, possibly a nurseryman tried to sell his tree as a more special one as it is. You may also right in the Picea jezoensis-glehnii debate too, where the mixture is totally. Practically all cultivars are listed at both specieses thanks to many nurserymen, who never seen this spruces earlier. Probably botanists would be able for supervising. And who pays them for it?

Zsolt

Baxswoh, I guess you would like to see an authority. The problem is, that we had such like state authorities, which were closed. Now there is nothing, no upper boss, who gives you a stamp. As the state was earlier an authority, they came to me to control my conifers for nothing. Now I must pay a lot for a process - and finished. I don't pay for the genetic security, I must care my conifers alone.

You say ACS makes it. No Baxswoh, the ACS is a social group of mostly seniors who like conifers. They are not a scientific institution, not a propagating nursery, just a friendly company. (I'm member there since 1991.) You cannot send any scions to ACS, because this works not. If you have found what, you have to look for a nursery who is able to graft it or able to propagate it. There are only very few officiers in the ACS who are able to care about the botanical basements, as they are mostly not botanists. You cannot wait the wonders from outside. Its your job to solve them. How?

In the Czech Republic many are collecting brooms. There are 5-6 bigger nurseries, which are able to accept scions. From here its a simple logistical game. The nursery, which has at home 20-40 000 understocks yearly, they can accept. They have glasshouses, they have production in greater masses. Sometimes the nurseryman organises his friends to discover new brooms together. In this country you can send your scions to any of the "bosses", who are able to graft your findings. And this works with the risk of the 5-6 bosses. The finder gets back some grafts for personal use, the others will be sold. There are hundreds of gardens, which are full of self founded brooms. Of course, this is not a realistic way for an american, but this exists. Based on not the business. Most of Middle Europe works by this way.

Zsolt, your comments regarding the American Conifer Society are extremely misguided. Have you ever actually attended one of our national events? If you did, you would realize that our network is extremely dense and contains a full array of educators, nurseryman, and managers of large public gardens/arboreta.

Further, our social network is sound and growing. All that needs to be done if a hobbyist finds a new broom or other mutation is to broadcast it over the various Facebook forums. Within moments there will be many opportunities to send scionwood for propagation.

With regards to a world-wide authority. The internationally recognized authority for conifer nomenclature is the Royal Horticultural Society. In essence, they are the boss. Due to lack of funding and technology, they have reached out to the ACS to make the ConiferBase their portal. This will likely take several years to reach fruition, but it gets better with each passing day.

Two years ago I started a conversation with the RHS man in the USA, who is sitting in an american arboretum. I gave him informations about the conifertreasury.org, its work and future plans. The RHS representant wrote me back, that sending scions between Europe and the USA is forbidden. (Brrrrr) It was clear for me, that the representant has no idea what I'm working for. He was unable to understand a word of my texts.

Last year an other lady of RHS published an article in ACS Quarterly about the last years new conifers. They were 28 of 3-4 years. That time I published yearly 3-5000 new conifers yearly. Dave, this RHS company is a big joke. They are sitting in their ivory towers, and still today they believe, that they are reigning in their world empire. The problem is, that they have nothing in the hand. The world has been changed, meanwhile you are still sitting there with in the ivory ideas.

I went to the breeders, the only authentic authors of conifers. After a 6 years big rush my conifer friends serve 700-1000 new conifers yearly in the conifertreasury.org. I don't care about RHS, despite of their good name, but if you open that nut, there is nothing in...

A king without clothes...

Zsolt

Perhaps, but therein lies the problem. Of 700 to 1000 new cultivar names, how many are actually worthy of cultivation? How many are lookalikes for something already out there that is working just fine? Are we collecting conifers or plant tags? That is the biggest question at hand here.

In your conversations with Rich Larson, is it possible that is was simply communication barriers? I must admit that it personally took me 3 to 4 years to start being able to make sense of ConiferTreasury.org. To this day there are still parts of it that are very confusing. I feel that he didn't have the time to decipher it.

The breeders. I find them to be the greatest problem. They consistently make mistakes with nomenclature. Their job is to produce and sell plants to make money. I have found that proper nomenclature is simply not important to them, even the top breeders in the world. In my experience there are fewer than 10 people on the planet Earth who are truly good at conifer nomenclature and identification.

It would be the best that you finally understand what I'm speaking about.

Any breeders can use his finds as possible. Some will be known, some not.

You made a big mistake with the RHS representant, I didn't named him. Its not my problem, that instead of following me, you just come with the vaste confusing texts.

If the breeders are problem for you, I suggest to avoid them. Go back to the ivory and sleep.

Funny. It is my opinion that all these cultivars are only for making money from naive conifer enthusiasts. Cultivating brooms is like caring about cancer cells. This "treasury" is like a trash bin full of nomenclatural mistakes. I was thinking that advertising on this forum was forbidden... And sending live material from one continent to the other is how pests and diseases are spread. Quite unfortunately some people do not care at all.

I have no issue with people spreading new finds out right away. It ensures the cultivar will not be lost if it turns out to be worthy of collectors. If not, it will live on in a few enthusiast gardens and then fade away. It has happened to many cultivars over time. The free market determines if a cultivar is a true gem or not..otherwise it goes extinct.

Too many stories of really neat cultivars being lost or nearly lost because only one person kept it under observation. 'Knaptonensis' is one that comes to mind as almost being lost. It seemed many unseen cultivars of Sciadopitys came from the Dennis Dodge estate sale. Lots of those could have been lost to the trade too, had the family not shared with collectors.

However... As much as I like CK, I'm not going to send them my finds, so that can just resell profit. I'd much rather trade with other collectors and basement grafters to ensure multiple copies are in the trade and not lost in the event they turn out truely unique.

If CK wants to setup a scion trade program, that's a different story..

Oh yea, and make sure you give them names before sharing...Iseli made that mistake with all the Skylands seedlings

^^^ You share my sentiments exactly. Thank you for this post.

Tipical american arguments. Everyone of you think that business is always behind, dirty conifers. You can build glasshouses with heating, collect 10-20 thousands of understocks, collect in many years mother trees for scions, and you think to be rich in a moment. Try it first, after that you may have an opinion of the "business".

Europe works a bit different, not as you think. Mr. Malik of Cesko and me founded the worlds first broom institutional collection in the hungarian National Botanic Garden. We pay for getting place, transport, plants. Brooms will be in safety here even after their authors pass away. If you have any plants for the eternity, send or bring them to the BotGard, and they will survive.

Zsolt conifertreasury.org

Funny you mention Mira. He is famous for almost never getting nomenclature right. We constantly correct him on Facebook forums. He always says, "I'm no botanist, only grower."

Sad that you have no idea about USA. I can take you on a 100km drive around Oregon and show you many failed nurseries with many extinct conifers. Long-term success will be through hobbyists and social networking.

I think it all boils down to what sc77 says, "The free market determines if a cultivar is a true gem or not..otherwise it goes extinct." It's the old 'survival of the fittest' theme. Fittest in this context is, being admired by the customer to the point of laying out cash to acquire it.

Zsolt, I think your collection desire is over riding and masking what drives the conifer market. It's all about economics.

There will always be specimens desired by collectors and if enough collectors like a plant, then maybe it will catch on with the public and be an economic success. The majority of the rest will fall by the wayside as not being interesting enough to have. How many in your vast collection will be successful? Very few can rise to the top in any collection. There isn't much room up there. In the meantime, that collection has to be maintained. Where does the money come from? Your effort is admirable, but from my point of view, most of it looks like a dead end.

Mike

Just a remark with the RHS. I'm in an email connection since years with an american gentleman, who helped my work with conifers, as me his work too. He published hundreds of american conifers in the 80's. We discussed also the RHS problem, which was mentioned above. This gentleman compared the productions of RHS with the conifertreasury activities, finally he wrote me: If they have no idea what is around them in the world, thats a big problem. So long about RHS.

And finally now we can start our conversations about the conifers of Northern America.

I have a very clear view of the american cultivars, as I'm the first who spent a book and an yearly refreshed internet portal for the theme. Botany gave of course the usual attention for America, but till now there were no books, which tried to collect all american conifer cultivars. In a special sense I'm a follower of Humphrey Welsh and Gordon Haddow, as their book is also living in a more widely plain. I tried to build a connection with Mr. Haddow for a common work, but he couldn't start a new era. I remember them as my ancestors. In the 50's Mr. Welsh went to the nurseries with his white papers and started to collect datas about conifers. After a while he had a lot of small white papers, and published his first little booklet. Some years later he got newly a lot of white papers, and published. Finally he and Mr. Haddow published in 1993 the Checklist.

I started collecting conifer cultivars for a book in 1982. It was ready in 1994, but this time I heard about the Welsh-Haddow book. I bought it quickly and studied as an important source. There was no question, I had to take over their knowledge, where they were better than me. I was also good in detecting hungarian conifers or from around Middle-, Eastern Europe, which were not well seen from England. Finally the Conifer Treasury (1.0) was published in 1995 with about 11-12000 conifer cultivars. The botanical frame was supervised by Mr. Geza Kosa, botanist of the National Botanic Garden, the cultivars were collected by me. In this sense this book and the Conifer Encyclopedia in 2014 are comparable: a botanist behind with a collector or photo artist, as they made it.

Very good points made by SC77, Miketann & Glaciers_end. For our European friends that would like to lecture us about the free market I would simply add this.

When you grant propagation rights to only one nursery you are not participating in a free market. You are creating a monopoly and fostering restriction of trade.

We printed 500 copies of the book for our expenses. Some hundreds were sold to hungarian nurserymen, forestry organizations, some in the States by Mr. Timothy Kash in Oregon, then many in the Netherlands. The book was 540 pages. The appendix was the best: it was the ever first Life Monument of a conifer breeder. Mr. Elemer Barabits selected in his life 208 conifer cultivars, and I was going to publish his many conifers. That time it was absolutely unique. I decided that I don't want to write necrologs, but Life Monuments as the authors are alive, and they are able to enjoy the success after a life carriere. Later I realized and established the Breeder's Hall of conifers, I got 300 new friends at once:

http://www.conifertreasury.org/start.jsp;jsessionid=E8744D3CE73724349A1D70E670472D90?mt=152

Some years later, as the book was spreading in the States, I got a mail. Bob Fincham asked me, what about the hungarian conifers? I told him, come and see with your eyes. This happened in 1999, Bob arrived to Budapest, I organized a program for 4 days. We visited Mr. Barabits in Sopron, Hungary. We were stepping on many Picea pungens notyetnamed brooms - Jesus, they have a worth of 10000 USD of piece, told Bob, - went to other Barabits gardens, where we saw older cultivars. Just visited the Paradise. Bob made a Hungarian Trip file from this visit on his page, but it was lost, as he retired. I very hope, it was a great adventure also for him. We planted a Cedrus brevifolia in a nursery school, which is now higher as the building.

These were the last good old times before the changes.

Nothing is ever lost on the Internet. : )

1999 Hungary Trip (Fincham)

Bob Fincham is the first american conifer historist. Bob created many files on his lost page about the american conifering. He organized the american conifer heritage to different ages, as about 1920, than before the second World War, before 1959 and finally after that. I don't know, if his lost files will be available again. Bob Fincham wrote conifer history, meanwhile many of you are speaking about an empty business way.

Some years later I published the Conifer Treasury 2.0 in 2005. This was a CD because of the great matters, many photos and internet links.

In 2008 I realized, that I can not find new sources: I was in every possible libraries, studied all possible nursery lists, I have all possible conifer lists ever published - and I can get no more new datas.

I decided to make a new experiment in Hungary. I went to the conifer breeders. I documented their cultivars, which were not yet known for peoples. Everyone gave me new addresses of other breeders. Finally I found 60 conifer breeders in Hungary. We thought that we have nothing, and now we have 1021 conifer cultivars. I went to the mine for getting new informations, it was simply digged out from the deep.

In 2010 I went to the Czech Republic. I was informed about 600 known conifer cultivars that time. Now they have 6500. Just of visiting the private gardens, who were not known, only for their friends.

Later on we came in Poland from almost nothing to over 1000 conifers, new countries were joining us, as Latvia, Estonia, Slovakia, which had never thought, they may have any own conifers. This is a really european conifer revolution. But back to the States.

There are nearly 8500 conifer cultivars of the States. Exactly 8416, published by me 3847. This means, that nearly the 50 % of the american conifer cultivars are published by me. I think its a hard argument, and a rather hard fact.

Why so many and why so few?

I was thinking about this problem. Big land, many conifers, and despite of the facts there are very few. If the nursery grandfather passes, everything will be lost for the future. The business kills the conifers instead of building them. As I see, nearly 50 % of the american conifer cultivars are lost because of the hard business.

Guys, have you ever a new conifer gifted to the US National Arboretum, or just speaking? Jerry Morris gave about 30-50 of his conifers to the Denver BG. How many took you to anywhere?

sc77, thanks

Well, go ahead

I thanked the help of the following extraordinary men with the Conifer Master Diplom. They all understood our common wills for the american conifering.

Jerry Morris USA

Dax Herbst USA

Nate Cassell USA

Talon Buchholz USA

Gary Gee USA

Greg Williams USA

Sidney Waxman USA postumus

Chub Harper USA postumus

Dennis Hermsen USA

Joe Stupka USA

Randy Dykstra USA

Dave Horst USA

Tom Cox USA

Jean Iseli USA

Rich Eyrie USA

Brent Markus USA

Sam Pratt USA

Chub Harper's Diplome finally was hanged in the office of the Bickelhaupt Arboretum, IA by the advice of Dax Herbst. Sure, Chub donated the collection for many years with new plants. The postumus diplome of Sidney Waxman was sent also by Dax Herbst to the widow. I also could have been so lucky to mail with Lady Waxman, as she got the diplome. I think she was very surprised. That time the UConn was going to forget Mr. Waxman, as usual, but we stopped this.

I think this is very important. Much more important, than any others.

Most of them are an aged generation, who's activity is nearly finished, but they are able to enjoy the fame they made for themselves. This is not a business, but a honour for the creating peoples, who show new ways. I want to recognize all them, as they are able to enjoy their Life Monuments. By this way conifers are for me not a business, as some in America thinks. Its a different one, a big history of creating people.

This is important, nothing else.

Zsolt conifertreasury.org

Lets see the american conifer history from a near sight.

I knew that without Jerry Morris I cant write anything. Dax Herbst suggested me to speak with Nate Cassell from Denver. Nate was a good friend of Jerry, he learned grafting and seeking from him. As he learned many of Jerry, he photographed for me the pages, he wrote. The Jerry Morris book was prepared of the photos of Nate. I never met Jerry Morris, maybe just 1 or 2 times he answered my mails. The only1 problem was, that Jerry finished his notes and descriptions in 1996 in his listings. Thats a big problem, as since 1996 is everithing is swimming in the ocean. Since that time there are no creditable datas about the Jerry Morris brooms and conifers. By this way I closed this era. Nobody may publish any new Jerry Morris plants.

Nate Cassell of Denver became a good broom-hunter at Jerry Morris. He found several beautiful Pinus ponderosa brooms. His other activity is the photography in greater sizes, his cover photos are published on the Conifer Treasury of the USA and Canada 4.0 2015. His camera is able to catch gigantic sights, which we never thought.

Dax Herbst knew all important coniferists in the upper middle an east of that. He planted a superb arboretum on his fields, organized the american conifer life. He is the only person in America, who owns my Picea pungens 'MPH Mamut Torony'. Most of the american Conifer Master Diploms were given to the coniferists, who helped our activity.

Talon Buchholz is a very valuated member in the american conifering. He is not only a good breeder with many new selections, but he created a Conifer Library, which is an important part for the future about the american basements. I saw there listed conifers from the 80's, of Pennsylvania nurseries, which are long closed. I thought that the conifers of Kristick or others are lost. Thanks for it.

Greg Williams is another tale. He sent me a letter in the 1995's, but I had no more informations about him. Years later it was clear for me, that he is a creating man. As he never used the internet, finally I sent him a printed list of his conifers, which I collected anyway through the years. He answered finally to Dax Herbst, and the texts are in the big conifertreasury.org lists. Greg was a very big surprise for me, as he liked to find, but not to name them. By this way his conifers had spreaded away, but without names everybody named the as they liked. KBN - Kate Brook Nursery + any plus name, as the byer thought it. Greg Williams gave no name to his conifers, so this job was left behind the buyers. The problem is, that he found very nice conifers, and still today others name his conifers. I very like this man, he maybe about 90, if I guess well. Long live to Greg Williams. I suggested to Brent Markus some years ago to visit Greg. He may learn very much of such like a great man in conifering.

Gary Gee is the other nurseryman of America (after Bob Fincham) whom I met. It was in Cesko, he came there from Holland with dutch colleagues to Mr. Malik. Gary is a low level mailing person, by this way we have no more connection. He takes part in the Minnesota Broomhuntings as grafter and finder. The Minnesota broomhuntings were started in Duluth MN by 2 gardeners, who discovered 534 brooms with GPS in and around Minnesota. This story started about 2010 as Joe Braeu and Josh Horky used their GPS for discoverings. Since that time year to year many nurserymen are garhering in Duluth in February for the broom harvest.

Dennis Hermsen USA

Dennis is a well known nurseryman, who is also taking part in the Minnesota Broomhuntings.

Joe Stupka USA

Joe Stupka is a member of the 80's generation, as Chub Harper and a bit later. He found sometimes together with Chub, but mostly separated of him. His cultivars are over 100.

Randy Dykstra USA

Dave Horst USA

Randy and Dave were working in Bickelhaupt with Chub Harper, sometimes cooperated with Jerry Morris. Their hands are on the Bickelhaupt collection. Dax Herbst documented their conifers in the last 10 years. The Conifer Master Diploms were posted by Dax Herbst some years ago.

Tom Cox USA

I met with Tom Cox in 2008, as he visited the Holata nursery in Cesko with ACS President Lady Kelly and members. I introduced them a vision about my conifer plans. This was a big ACS database, the Breeders Hall and other possible ways. I think I was bad or they didn't understood what I'd like. Maybe they thought, that I want money of them... After a while it was clear to me, that I must make myself, what I suggested to ACS presidents. That was the burn of the Conifertreasury.org. I made what ACS not wanted. Opened an org portal, based on my payments, hired servers for my portal.

Jean Iseli USA

The name Iseli is a good fame in America. I linked many facts about the Iseli selections. I sent him the Conifer Master Diplome personally. I tried also to build a connection to Don Howse, the former conifer propagator there, but I was not successful. I asked a guy to connect to him, but he closed the way before me to a man, who had a great knowledge of conifers. This guy was an ACS officier. Thats why Don Howse may be not well represented in the american conifer book. I'm very sorry of this, but its not my problem.

Rich Eyre USA

I always liked the conifer videos of Rich, but he realized his own conifer world. Sometimes alone, sometimes with other friends, like Jerry Morris. The Picea pungens RM series is their common find, 60 brooms in one place. His own selections are available in the book.

Brent Markus USA Sam Pratt USA

And finally lets have a synthesis of the previous news. Anyone can find the conifers on Conifer Kingdom. Brent started with a new concept of conifers. He collected a wide sortiment of the american conifers. There is the best of them. Every important ancestors are represented there. The Conifer Kingdom is so deeply american, that you cant imagine. If anyone say, that he doesn't sent any scions to Brent, simply eat them guys. Brent and Sam are the future for America in the next 50 years.

Any problems, Dave?

Thats good. Whats the name of Rich Eyre?

Well said and documented mesterhazypinetum. I like your persistances and ternacity; american conifers should not just be a business, it should honor the men and women behind it's movement and their hard work. Cheers, p.s.: completely agree regarding your comments of RHS. need to get back in the fields and dirt.

Such a strange tome of contradiction. First Zsolt spends three pages extolling the legacies of some of the U.S.'s great historic conifer growers, then somehow declares (from Hungary) that its future should be left in the hands of one nursery. Cornering of the market such of this would be the likely death of a really fun hobby.

I know many small-scale growers who would be extremely offended by such suggestions.

I was proud to play host to members of the RHS and Dutch Conifer Society this summer. They are good and down to earth people. In fact the fellow who co-wrote the RHS Encyclopedia is a gentle and congenial man who happens to own a small nursery in the U.K. I guarantee his fingers get plenty dirty on a daily basis.

I don't think that Zsolt (mesterhazypinetum) is suggesting that scions should just be send to one known grower; that is why he has listed others above, following his suggestion of Conifer Kingdom (Brent and Sam) as far as American conifer growers/breeder/hybridizers. I'm an advent Iseli loyalist; but I due to the growth of my conifer addict collection, I have had to seek others to meet the needs of my passion to create a tranquil outdoor living space/office for my husband I to relax and enjoy. Quality is first and foremost; growers actually labeling things correctly to educate the enthusiast gardener, conifers are allot more dynamic in their environment than most gardener can come to comprehend. Buchholz has been one of only three that I go to for quality Japanese maples --- because of proven track records of quality stock, I believe that he is trying to get people educated to send it to a reputable grower that will record and monitor them thoroughly before releasing them to nursery for sale. Brent and Sam (Conifer Kingdom) is the new and younger generation of growers to come into this market place; time will test them enough with what they put out, new scions and brooms sent to them will test their ability to bring to the market place (quality and reliability of products). Keen and moderate gardener will catch on to the quality of stock put out for sale; reputation of nurseryman (buyers), won't want to risk their reputation with the expert or advance gardener --- it would effect their bottom line too.

Glaciers_end, I don't doubt your gentle and congenial man with the RHS that owns a small nursery in the UK doesn't get his hands dirty in the dirt. We live in a generation of information highway; is he writing and educating the small gardener around the world of his knowledge and experience, it doesn't take much with the world wide web, forums, tweets, facebook, etc., etc., etc. Just co-writing the RHS Encyclopedia for sale isn't putting much out; just another business to sell books, dredging thru all this information as Zsolt has done to constantly post out takes a lot of time and constant communication with allot of people that are constantly in the field and in the dirt. Getting things current; keeping others inform, building information in an organize and current to drive the passion and growth of conifer addicts to stay in the forefront. Hosting a bunch of people/members of the RHS and Dutch Conifer Society doesn't sound down to earth to me --- a bit elitist and selective. I wish you had hosted a bunch of growers/hybridizers and get some great info. of what's new and what isn't so would be really informative to make me run and join the ACS and be a financial contributor to see the preservation of conifers.

Cheers,

Zsolt , Rich's Foxwillow Pines,,,Woodstock il.

ron

this week end , I ordered Conifer Encyclopedia from the public library

Zsolt , is that what you wanted ?

plantkiller_il_5 and others that are advent Rich's Foxwillow Pines Nursery; I was sent and e-mail yesterday from them, that Mrs. Margaret Sandner Eyre past away yesterday. Richard's mother; funeral arrangements at St Mary's Catholic Church, Saturday, Jan. 16, 2016 in Woodstock, IL. Sorry for off topic. Great woman; she also handled all the "Hostas" propagation for the nursery.

plantkiller, there was a question earlier, which was already deleted. I know the person by my friends, Rich is a Conifer Master with a very rich life monument.