'Moonsprite' only because it has been in the ground since last July and hasn't done anything, not a bud of growth, not a dropped leaf, nothing, but then many of my woody bands from RVR take a long time to do anything. 'The Fairy', in the ground since January and not one flower. seems to be doing ok foliage wise. I noticed one at a nursery that wasn't blooming either even though every other rose was. Wonder if Weeks had a dud year of Fairies? Westerland, not because it isn't a very nice rose but it is orange, whatever possessed me to order it? I did plant it far afield where I don't have to look at it. Eglantyne also because she just isn't the bloomer of other Austins. 'Crecendo' because it produces absolutely HUGE healthy hybrid tea blooms that last forever. One huge one this fall lasted 3 weeks on the bush, It was over 6" in diameter. I basically dislike two tone hybrid teas and this one was just so ostentatious! It was an impulse purchase at a nursery when I just had to have a rose to plant. 'Snow Pavement' Because though it smells lovely the prickly branches go every which way like a spider and the tips die in the sun and in the cold. Flowers aren't much to look at. 'Heirloom'- straggly.

I didn't mention White Pet, even though it totally underwhelms me, because it's in a spot where its size fits perfectly and I hope to like it better next year.

Melody, thanks so much for the heads up on Fragrant Plum. Mine is own-root but since it was in a 2-gallon container I thought it would perform more. However, I'm now motivated to give it a good long trial period because I do like the color and it is fragrant. What a relief.

I haven't gotten rid of Heirloom yet because I want to see what happens when its very shady spot gets more sun in the spring and summer. Again I like the color and my bush so far isn't really straggly.

Annie Laurie McDonnell is staying until the cows come home since it occasionally puts out a few millimeters of growth which give me hope.

Lux, I've had Celine Forestier in the past and she bloomed more than yours but stayed short for years and just never really did much. Reve d'Or is a great rose but mine declined against a hot house wall. My fault, the rose isn't made of plastic.

It's going to be interesting to see what makes the grade and what doesn't. We'll have to revisit this topic next year.

Anne, I might give Snow Pavement another chance. It was really beautiful at my old home. My Lavender Lassie pretty much sat there after a growth surge and beautiful spring bloom. I now gather it may not be much of a repeater. I am hoping next summer will be better. It was very hot for the new roses last summer, and I think LL didn't like that. I'm not loving Darlow's Enigma yet. Maybe in time when it does hips. I keep wishing it was Ingrid's roses.

Mariannese, Ruskin died in Alaska too. Marie Bugnet was lovely and hardy. I'm hoping I can keep some rugosas going here in the heat. Pink Surprise from RVR exploded into thorny strong growth, beautiful shiny, olive green foliage and beautiful single huge flowers. I love it, but I probably put it in the wrong spot. I may leave it there. Long John Silver exploded into 18 ft canes. Sander's White is sitting there but a few months younger. I think garden design is a bit tricky when you don't know if a plant will like you or it's location, or love you and overdo it a bit. I know that's half the mystery and fun, though.

Falstaff: two plants, three years, two blooms. They're in semi-shade, though, so I might keep them if I can move them to a sunnier spot.

Souvenir de Mme. Leonie Vientot: it's a tea-noisette, right? Those grow in SoCal, right? Crepescule is doing great, so is Marie Van Houtte. Not Mme. Leonie. Total dud. Just ordered Genl. Schablikine ... wanted a tea with a little more color.

Tranquillity: lots of canes, only a few small, blah flowers. Disappointed.

Zone 8(b):

I give my plants at least two seasons, but I have only thrown out a few. Only ones that just won't ever grow. All of my roses (except for five in the ground) are in pots, growing in my organic compost. I don't spray anything, ever.

These are the plants that died this year: Peace (I call it Piece of Crap). Climbing Peace (see above), Golden Showers, New Year, I'm having problems with dieback fungus, which attacks the stems making ugly gray scars. Eventually the whole plants dies.

The plants which have got it all were in shade, so I must remember to give these more sun: Mozart, Lyric, Belinda's Dream, and two more. I'm taking cuttings and hope that I can get ahead of this disease as I really like these plants.

Most of the tea hybrids have done poorly. They seem to need more fertilizer (organic) and bigger pots to accommodate their large roots.

Only 30 of my more than 200 rose plants were HTRs, and all were acquired in the last year, so I'm still learning.

I've been collecting cuttings from my neighbors and area. I'm so very excited to think about the flowers that I will see for the first time this coming spring.

Sheila, Ruskin didn't die. I shovel pruned it after 5 or 6 unproductive years with few flowers. Beautiful roses but not enough of them for a prime location and the red colour wasn't my cup of tea either. Not many roses have died on me and some were probably impossible choices from the beginning. The noisettes Meteor and Gloire de Dijon didn't survive a move and Gräfin Esterhazy, a chinensis, died almost at once. Constance Spry died from canker after 15 years. Two barons died for unknown reasons, Baron Gonella and Baron Girod d'Ain, Others I've lost were Baltimore Belle, Buff Beauty, Chrysler Imperial, Asta von Parpart and Ash Wednesday. A neighbour accidentally killed Souvenir de Beranger. I am responsible for all other losses.

Sheila, omg, thank you so much! I've been wracking my brains for months trying to remember the name of the white climber I had on the back fence. It was Long John Silver. We had to have the septic completely redone in the spring and had to go thru the back fence to do it. I had LJS and Veilchenblue growing there. One of them survived being driven over. Think it's Veilchenblue, since LJS never did thrive, just survived. Mystery solved, so thanks :)

I bet the cold impacted Ruskin, Mariannese, and Long John Silver, Carriehelene in their respective locations. Having gardened in zone 4, then 3 and now 8, it is amazing how much faster plants can grow with less cold. I was very familiar with growing backwards or not blooming if the climate was too cold in winter or too low heat zone in summer. I realize, as per Ingrid, that too hot is also a tremendous challenge. I don't think you were responsible for the losses, as much as the climate didn't allow them to thrive.

Alchymist. Ugh. Every now and then I'd get a single bloom that was pretty. But mostly it was a black spotted, cercospora'd, mildewed, rusted, sawflied horror who hung onto it's spent blooms till they went mouldy, literally rotting on the plant. Never again.

Eglantyne, beautiful blooms, ugly plant, miserably black spotted no spray. Also sp'd.

DA's in general tbh, I don't think they like my growing conditions.

Honestly, I would grow Alchymist again in a heartbeat!

Here, it was that rare spring-bloomer that performed beautifully, breaking out in the spring with huge sprays of various shades of gold, that hung in festoons.

BUT --- I would not plant any more Ramblers, nor Gallicas, Damasks, or Centifolias. They're wonderful roses, but they do not bloom in my climate, and hang on for dear life to old foliage. Nor would I plant Bourbons, because they are uniformely disease-magnets here. Oh, and add Rugosas to the list. They die, to spare you the hassle of digging up a living plant, so miserable are they in my alkaline conditions.

Oops, forgot did SP 2 roses, both of them New Dawn. Poor planning on my part. The roses themselves grew well. Too well for where I had them. Got so my son refused to mow that area, cuz those vicious thorns were constantly ripping him up. So, out they came this fall. Need to find another long climber that repeats well and will survive our winters and is thornless.

Sheila, just so you don't expect too much, I don't think I've ever heard of a Lavender Lassie that bloomed profusely throughout the year. It always seemed to be "with scattered blooms later after a big spring flush. I've seen it at the Huntington and it was glorious but when I heard about the scant rebloom I opted not to buy it.

Everything and one loves Pasadena! Who wouldn't want to grow there?

Many which demand longer, colder winters to remain healthy and flower appropriately. Many which can't handle the regular fogs and humidity the mountains prevent the winds from blowing out. Just to name a few types.

Thank you for that help, Ingrid. At least I'll know it isn't just me. Maybe I could grow a type 3 clematis through it. It puzzled me because it was so floriferous in the spring.

To: carriehelene(5 Upstate NY)

I wonder if you might like Thousand Beauties (Tausendschoen) or White Tausendschoen? They are thornless climbers.

I second Jeri's comments about the Alchymist. People in warm climates where BS is not a big deal should not be discouraged from growing it by its bad reputation. It has been strong and quite healthy for me. It does get some disease on the older leaves just after its flush but many roses do. The new growth put out after its spring flush remains very healthy until winter for me, plus I have never seen him mildew in my mildewy climate. Strictly a once bloomer but what a flush! It starts just at the time where the weather becomes warm enough over here for continous garden living and lasts long. It is true that it needs deadheading at the end of its flush though.

'Alchymist': doomed to be leafless by the time the flush is in its prime. Horrible disease problem, and after nearly 20 years in my garden, its health never improved (many do, once fully established). But unlike many modern roses (see next paragraph), it persists from year to year in spite of its chronic leaflessness and blooms nicely on those long bare canes!

And there's not a single Austin hybrid left in my garden now; they all die of The Dwindles unless coddled and doused in chemicals every week. I've stopped looking to see what new Siren Austin temps us with every year - not a one of them would I give the space to.

I had to think about what was left behind when we moved.... On my list are:

Gertrude Jekyll: the pretty, very fragrant flowers were not enough to make up for the fact that in my garden, it was a stingy bloomer on a very unattractive plant

Excellenz Von Schubert: I just could not force myself to like this rose in my garden.

Charles XII: Healthy, vigorous plant, but I want roses too...

Abraham Darby: It was simply horrid here

Lynn

I once saw a plant of 'Alchemyst', which I had considered getting, that was A Warning: the plant was in full flower, very healthy, and a day or two of hot dry weather had reduced every bloom to dirty tissue paper. It was one of the most spectacularly awful rose sights I've ever seen.

This seems to be in part a thread about what roses don't grow in one's garden. My failure categories are Rugosas, Moyesii forms, and R. hugonis has enough problems with heavy soil and, especially, cane girdler, than I don't even consider getting others of the early yellows, beautiful though I think R. hugonis is. Not too sure about Spinosissimas and the Foetidas: my results are mixed. It's possible poor soil preparation has been part of the problem.

I did it a month or so ago, grabbed the shovel and put an ad on Craigslist for free roses. I listed 4 and pressed all 4 off on the first person to stop....but then more people kept coming so we dug up more

at the end of the day sexy Rexy, 2Elle standards, moonstone standard, Costco Golden Celebration, grafted Janet and Lady of Megginch all gone, plus a couple from my pot ghetto to the guy that came from the nursing home

Mary Rose went in the trash since she seemed to be taken over by rootstock

I should add photos of my "tale of two Belinda's". Both cuttings from the same plant and started at the same time. Both planted the same day 12 feet apart on my patio. One gets lots of sun and heat. It is 3 feet tall with 20+ blooms. The other cooler and shade,. Probably more water too but just one tall cane with a bloom. Location location location

I grow Alchymist because Carolina's (Carol_FM) was so magnificent, and also because she loved it so much. I won't take it out even though it struggles here, However, if it dies, I won't try again.

I really miss Carolina.

Mike and Mariannese, thank you both for your suggestions. They are lovely. Unfortunately, they are zoned 6 or warmer. This is also the first time I realized that the "say thank you" option is only available if you are the topic starter lol.

Lykkefund is hardier than zone 6. It's considered hardy to at least zone 5 or even colder in Sweden where it is a very popular rose. HMF gives zone 6 by default which means they don't know. Some helenae hybrids are even hardier but they are also thornier than Lykkefund.

For me, Jude the Obscure. His blooms were very obscure after the first flush. Ambridge Rose--great little plant but I didn't like the scent. Evelyn--loved the flowers but wished there were more and she was HUGE. My Lady of Shalott may have to go as well. I should have known I wasn't going to like bright orange flowers. Plus she has very droopy canes. I may have to put my Princess Alexandra of Kent in her spot. My POK, I LOVE but she is also a big girl. She needs much more room than the 2 foot wide bed she is in. She attacks everyone coming to the front door. So much for the description as to how big she gets. Canes are at least 10 feet long if not longer.

POK? Translation please :) I know what you mean about some of the DA's roses scent. I couldn't buy Wildeve for the same reason. Others I adore, like Scepter'd Isle and Gertrude Jekyll's fragrance

In my Very Dinky garden, I'm going to SP Midnight Blue, which is an awful muddy deep mauve on a far too small bush that blooms early on and then fizzles out. I don't like the color; not thrilled with the little bit of scent I can smell, and I will either park it by the road (we unload MANY things that way, quickly) or dumpster it - I want that space for something I like better.

I am unimpressed with Maid of Honor, but she was a cheap experiment from Costco, and isn't planted in a choice location, and is persevering. Got 1 bloom this year! Woo hooo. Nothing but an asparagus fern right there, though, so she can stay longer.

Not super impressed with Cornelia either, but I'll give her another few years before she gets tossed. Very small blooms, although she's getting better about repeating as she ages on site.

Anne, Princess Alexandra of Kent: PAOK would be more complete. I've got one own root one coming from DA in the spring. Everyone seems to love it here on the forum.

the first is JFK. Got smaller each year, was lucky to get one or two blooms a year. My husband wouldn't let me shovel prune (he doesn't believe in it until something has been completely black for several years, and even then believes it will come back to life). after about 10 years I thought JFK was dead dead until I was weeding dwarf snapdragons and found him underneath them with one drop dead gorgeous bloom! Seriously, shorter than dwarf snapdragons! that was it for him. Two others: Mr Lincoln and Golden Showers, both 8 feet tall one cane wonders with one or two blooms on the tips. they went to another plane of existence. I have not been impressed with Belinda's Dream so far but this is it's first year. Sentimental just did not do it for me and it is gone too. I'm sure there were others, but can't think of them just now.

For me, 1600 ft above the Willamette Valley, Alchemyst grows like a giant thorny, very healthy blackberry and throws off a huge wave of large yellow flowers which are very fragrant. Once it stops it retreats into a blackberry thicket existence. BTW, it strikes very easily form cuttings. My Benjamin Britten (x2) are about 7 feet tall and bloom continuously in the Eastern light, a bit of late morning Southern light and no Western light at all.

The only rose that does not "do" for me at all is Golden Showers (grafted, body bag). Against all odds, own-root Gloire de Dijon does very well.

BUT I have killed several that made me weep to have done so, largely by under-watering in our bone dry summers (tho we get 60 inches of rain a year, it stops in July). My greatest regret is having killed Prince Camille de Rohan, as I cannot seem to find a replacement.

I'll never get another DA, and I need my head read if I ever get another HT. For starters I don't like them - one exception, I quite like Aotearoa - but none of them do well for me, hardly growing and with lots of BS. Unfortunately my daughter likes them, so it's hard to remove them, prematurely at least. With a bit of luck, they'll die.

Julie, Roses of Yesterday shows on there site, here, they have Rohan available for shipping. You might give them a call or an email if you'd really like to obtain it again. Good luck!

Roses I wouldn't buy again: most of them! It's always more fun to try new ones.

Thank you Roseseek, I will contact them!!

Titian1: I don't like hybrid teas very much either---but "Dainty Bess"--lovely!

You're welcome! I hope it works out for you to obtain it from them. I know what it's like to want and not be able to find!

Julie, I looked up Dainty Bess, and it does look lovely, though not at all like a hybrid tea! - or not the ones I'm familiar with.

@Lynn (desertgarden) How long have you had Charles xii in your garden?I am worried;I have two,both will be going into I believe their third year, and neither one has bloomed much at all,just a few poor-quality, balled (in spite of dry weather)and ugly blooms.Both plants grew VERY quickly and are quite large,so I've been hoping that it's just a case of a rose that needs to develope as a green plant first, and then will start blooming,but seeing your comment I wonder...

bart_2015, Charles XII was a rose that I left behind when we moved earlier this year. I received a healthy one gallon plant and grew it for 2 full years. In that time, it grew to over 6' in height, and had multiple thick canes. In that time, it never had a single bloom, just very healthy vigorous growth. It was in a prime location and was cared for. I have read that some roses take more time to get going, maybe this is the case....

When tasked with digging up and potting the 60 plants that would be taken with us, a large plant that had yet to provide a single bloom... well, my patience with it did not extend that far.

Lynn

There's a bunch of roses I'll never have in my garden again but 90% of those are roses that go from bud to fully open in one day and drop all the petals over night. Then there are a few I just don't like.

Sidonie---I've had this rose for 5 yrs. It grows well but it gets black spot and I spray. Plus to me the blooms are flat out ugly. Muddy pink. I'll put something else in it's place.

Crocus Rose---Good growing bush. Nice foliage and plenty of blooms. I just don't like the color of the blooms. Will put Sunny Knock Out in it's place.

All of these were horrible, either riddled with disease (mildew, rust, or blackspot, and in one instance all on the same rose!) and looked hideous or grew backwards and died: Napoleon, Archduke Charles, Francis Dubreuil/Barcelona (misidentified as Niles Cochet), Vintage Mlle de Sombreuil/Huntington La Biche, Ducher, Tipsy Imperial Concubine, Camellia Rose. Napoleon is the only one I still have. He looks so terrible that I haven't managed to give him away. Usually basted with mildew year round unless I feed him copious amounts of fertilizer and practically give him intravenous water. Not dead yet but heading in that direction.

I'm surprised Mlle. de Sombreuil did so badly for you since it's very healthy for me and no one else has mentioned that it has a lot of disease. However, the tea Miss Atwood, which was always healthy before, is covered with spotted leaves, so nothing surprises me any more. I love that phrase "basted with mildew", which reminds me of Alexander Hill Gray which had the most beautiful flowers, and then turned almost white and never recovered again. Sometimes I think we're crazy to put up with these expensive roses which we then substitute with another expensive rose, praying it will do better, and meanwhile another previously good rose turns into a disaster, or the squirrels eat it, or the gophers kill the roots.....I don't want to think of the money I've spent over the years in the never-ending quest for beauty, which is always just slightly, and sometimes almost completely, out of reach.

No Ingrid it is not out of reach. You are providing it for the rest of us. You are Don Quixote.

My climate in South Mississippi is dreadful all summer. Unbearably humid, and together with the heat, the waves of mosquitos make this place uninhabitable for 4 months every year. The best I can say for it is that we no longer are plagued with yellow fever. On the other hand, the Spring and Fall are beautiful.

As we know, what does well for us depends on our climate. I have tried many of the Austins. As a rule they do poorly here -- often disease ridden and/or short lived. Some I think are just bad roses anywhere, and should never have been introduced if plant habit and foliage are important . I will not buy any more David Austin roses though there are three among the many I am happy with.

The three exceptions to Austins in this climate that I am aware of are The Pilgrim, an early DA introduction, Graham Thomas, and Gertrude Jekyll . The latter is a rather spectacular achievement. It is virtually identical to the famous Comte de Chambord, a spectacular rose that unfortunately does poorly in my climate -- it's one I would not buy again. Unlike c . d C., Jekyll is healthy and vigorous here without spraying! I note that Jekyll responds to hard pruning. if you have had trouble with it, I would suggest cutting it back hard in late winter -- January here-- before giving up on it. I requires plenty of water in dry hot weather. It, like it's famous parent, bears vicious thorns and incredibly strong, classic rose fragrance . Why it should do so well in my climate , where many of the other Austins and c.d.C. do poorly, is a mystery to me.

Another rose I would not buy again, besides the majority of the Austins, is the modern rose, The Fairy. It refuses to die though I have intentionally neglected it. I think it belongs up North. Even before I grew to hate it, it was a poor grower and sparse bloomer.

In general Teas and China's are the roses to grow in this hellish climate. But there are many other roses, and a few modern roses too, especially Kordes, that do fine here.

I guess with roses (and real estate!) it is location, location, location. Actually Huntington La Biche/Vintage Mlle de Sombreuil came from Antique Rose Emporium as a big healthy plant (like all from ARE) along with Ducher. They were planted near each other. Both grew backwards and died within a couple years (I can't recall at the moment if they had much in the way of disease). Treated the same as all my other roses. Yet other plants from ARE planted close to them and are thriving to this day. In the same spot as I had Huntington La Biche/Vintage Mlle de Sombreuil, I now have Souvenir de la Malmaison which is doing beautifully. Gorgeous flowers and no disease whatsoever. It came from Rogue Valley. I seem to remember at least one southern California poster here whose SDLM was a mildew magnet. I felt surprise when reading that because mine has always been so clean. Go figure!

But my mother warned me not to grow teas and chinas. That these do not do well here and were roses wonderfully suited to the south, where my mom was from. I didn't listen and had to learn the hard way. These roses love warmth and water not high heat and drought/dry soil. If in such a climate they need to be supplemented with enough extra water to make them feel at home. For me, that is so much more water and extra care than the other roses that I grow that it just won't happen and thus they either die or are afflicted with terrible disease. Better to grow roses that like things here as is. So that is what I do. Choose roses that are easy to please.

Tessie, you're thinking of Jeri, who lives in a more coastal climate, whose SdlM was a mildewed disaster. You and I are more inland and higher in elevation, and Bourbons are great for us. I bought two more SdlM after the first one was such a huge success. Neither has any disease, but one has already bloomed quite a bit and grown a lot in its first year and the other is only a third as large with no blooms. It has to be location. Still, it's also healthy and trying to grow so I have hope. I do grow and love teas but mine are watered regularly and that makes all the difference.

I agree with Newtie's comments about Gertrude Jekyll and Comte de Chambourd, and in a completely different climate. GJ does very well for me and CdC is a dog. I am unjustly insulting the canine species here. I've tried CdC twice about ten years apart because I thought I was a better gardener now and could make it come out right. For me it is completely chlorotic. Maybe it had mildew, too, but the pale-to-white foliage was so striking that is what sticks in my mind. White flowered roses, okay. But white foliaged roses are not for me, though amazingly, it was vigorous anyway!

Malmaison was a disaster in the Santa Clarita Valley, both in my Newhall garden and in Valencia. Its mildew was as chronic and terminal as it was in Granada Hills and Van Nuys in the San Fernando Valley. At least Souv. de St Anne's flowers would open in the same places, though the foliage was just as fragile. Mlle de Sombreuil was completely healthy in Encino as it has remained here in Santa Maria. Fred Boutin's Bloomfield Abundance mildews here, but was clean in Encino. Ping Dong Yue Ji was completely healthy in Encino but isn't here. Moser Striped (Rainbow) was good in Encino and is a disaster here. I can't keep foliage on it. They mildew and fall almost as quickly as they form. I grew Buck's Sevilliana for over twenty years and loved the stippled blooms. Here it remained mildewed and black spotted, so I tossed the plant in the garden waste barrel last week. Ironically, the Teas, in general, other than Moser Striped, are remaining clean here so far. Mrs. B.R. Cant, Mons. Tillier, Mrs. Dudley Cross, Mme. Antoine Mari, Rosette Delizy and Maman Cochet are all canned, own root and healthy. Souv. de Therese Levet has healthy foliage from the small buds pushing leaves I salvaged from the budded plant I accidentally broke off earlier this summer. How long it will remain healthy is anyone's guess. It really is location, location, location. I took a chance on Marchionesse of Londonderry (own root) this summer. It's also canned and also remaining healthy. That's quite an accomplishment here where mildew and rust are "local past times"!