Few Nyssa Sylvatica questions

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

I picked up some clearance species, 3 gallon and 6ft tall for $15 each. I had planned on planting them out back or giving them to my friend with 80 acres, bust leaning towards at least one out back. I've read that most are polygamo-dioecious, so if it was a male, I'd have no fruit. The color looked great on two, possible all three (think one was multicolored).

I understand they ing in all sorts of birds and pollinators and are a well behaved tree in the yard/landscape. You may already know I have many young pines in the backyard and since they are young, I'd imagine a few would need to be removed due to branch crowding (when the time came). If they were older and self limbed, it wouldn't be an issue and would've been the ideal situation.

pollination, that is a big concern for me, since I want to attract birds. I figured I could either plant three out back and dig one out if I had two males, etc. Regarding pollination, I'm guessing one out front and two out back wouldn't work and could possibly do a severe disservice if the male was out front (100-130 feet from the females), due to pollination distance and crossing fingers for bees to visit all. I do have a farmer a few hundred yards away, with a bee hive and understand bees really love these trees, also not sure how far from the hive they would go, especially when the farmer has a small crop in front of his barn.

Cultivars - I am in the humid South of Alabama, about 1 mile from Wheeler National Wildlife Refuge and the Tennessee River and wasn't sure if an expensive cultivar (Red Rage) was worth purchasing. I was told it was resistant to leaf spot, but heard contrary in a real world setting, as well as folks having problems transplanting them. The only local cultivars I've seen are 15 gallon, with the extremely unique Zydeco Twist going for $220. I'd rather not buy a large one, due to longer establishment and the initial cost.

Thanks for reading and maybe you can shed some light on the subject for me. If only these things were full of perfect flowers...

Featured Answer

lucky_p

8 years ago

Dax,

So much wrong with that chart... bur oak - and other white oak species - here, almost always bearing acorns by 10... NOT 25-35.

WDE Joe... having grown up at the Loveliest Village on the Plains... your location up by Wheeler... qualifies as 'way up North' to me...LOL... though I'm now located even farther away, in the frigid northland just across the TN/KY line...

I'd say, plant those good affordable Nyssas you found, and enjoy them! I've imprisoned them in small pots for way too long and transplanted them with no issues... trimming away any circling roots, etc. Really...I think the claims about them being hard to transplant - at least with container-grown seedlings - is way overblown.

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Comments (10)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
8 years ago
bird use trees.. for a variety of reasons beyond food ...

not everything you plant has to be a food source ...

sometimes i think .. in your box.. you are entirely too focused on one aspect ...

in other words... if you like a plant for reasons other than food production... use it ...

ken
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tete_a_tete
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Yes, I think you are over-thinking it.

The birds will love them because they are a tree and the more trees you have, the more the birds will like it.

You see fruit on Nyssa sylvatica even when you don't see where the male tree is that pollinates the female.

My main concern is with the roots of the tree. I don't like big trees in pots. Ever. I've got a thing about it. I wonder what its root system is like. Remember, if it's curled inside the pot and is left curled, it will never uncurl. It just keeps on going the way it was always going.
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I think nyssa just does this the year after transplant. I waited mine out then had to prune off the dead. My bet is yours does fine next winter. Here is a link where I was worried or asking about mine. It survived my -10F winter this year with flying colors. The first year in the ground it did not do so well. Curious, mine is a fu fu grafted cultivar. Is yours a main species tree? Here is a link that might be useful: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/trees/msg05005631567.html
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Likely not IMHO. They don't like their roots messed with much. With that said, there are specimen tree suppliers that MIGHT have one of that size that have been specifically grown for transplanting (meaning special treatment of the root system during tree production), but you would be paying some serious $$$ for one of those. Another option is that it is probable possible to get a 45G or even larger container tree, that would be a rather large size. However, in case you aren't aware, the larger the tree, the harder it is to transplant, and the longer the recovery time. Especially with large trees such as these, you have to stay on top of watering (water when it is needed, and not on a time schedule), and proper planting. Arktrees
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Many newly planted trees don't showcase their true potential for fall color (or flowers, or any number of other physical characteristics) until they're fully established, which can take a full year (or longer) from planting. Even though you mentioned the taproot being intact, Nyssa is often known to "sulk" and suffer from transplant stress after planting, an issue which can be magnified with larger caliper specimens like yours. As long as the trees are well watered and mulched, I wouldn't give too much thought to them not performing as "advertised" until they're established. I expect that next fall, you'll probably get a much nicer foliage show.
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gardener365
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Nyssa sylvatica has only a minimum age of 5-years old to begin sexual reproduction (at highly irregular intervals see chart.) Don't concern yourself... just get them planted and move/remove or replace whatever is necessary for your plans.

Best regards,

Dax
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gardener365
8 years ago
I know they have Thuja occidentallis really wrong-o! My seedlings are 8-years old and have been producing cones for several years.

Dax
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Bama_Joe
Original Author
8 years ago
Ken - You're right in that I'm concerned about the food, maybe a bit too focused. They don't just eat fruit, seeds, etc., but also insects, which come with plants in general.

tete - The trunks are thin and my understanding is the Nyssa Sylvatica will grow a deep taproot. I believe the problem, if root bound, can be handled when planting and some TLC the first year.

No no worries about black spot on the species in humid climates? I guess it is more of an asthetic thing any way.

There doesn't seem to be much concern about the pollination distance, so that's nice to hear. I understand a female will have atleast some fruit regardless. Just trying to maximize, if it is going to be there, it would be nice to have fruit. Man oh man, those things have some fantastic fall color!
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gardener365
8 years ago
Lucky_ glad I only caught a glance at Thuja occidentallis then! lol

Anyway, stuff happens.

Dax
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wisconsitom
8 years ago
All concerns about potted stock notwithstanding, you are on the right path to work with species Nyssa rather than cultivars. If cultivars, you would then have to ascertain proper flowering times for male/female to ensure pollination. By working with species-run, no such concerns. Plus, the benefits of genetic diversity. Bravo-fix what you have to in roots and plant away!

+om
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Bama_Joe
Original Author
8 years ago
Tom - Thanks for the response and glad you mentioned the flowering of cultivars, as I had no idea and will be very helpful. The more you folks share with me the more excited I get and thirst to learn more. There are so many things you learn, that can be applied to horticulture in general. I know to look out for flowering times with things like winterberries, viburnum, but never would've thought about Nyssa species vs. cultivar...very handy!

I truly appreciate everyone's input and have learned so much since joining GW. You folks are truly awesome!

In response to the WDE above, ROLL TIDE!!!
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gardener365
8 years ago
One thing that's been thrown around is that for "whatever reasons" most Nyssa sylvatica in commerce are from the lower regions of their native habitat. I don't know if that's true with the cultivars being sold but... the vast majority (if not all) of the seedling trees being sold are grown from southern origin seeds.

It won't affect you Bama_Joe, but Northern seed should be what is being used to grow seedlings.

Just throwing it out there as I say.

Dax

Few Nyssa Sylvatica questions

lucky_p

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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