We are in CT and we have a 5 kw system on our house. It generates about what we use in the course of 8-9 months. We chose the 5kw for a number of reasons. That was the maximum of the subsidies offered at the time and it got a lot more expensive after that. Also, we didn't want to be net generators (generating more than we use) as the utility co. sells to you at retail but buys back at wholesale, so it's not a good deal at all. Instead what we do is bank the kwh during the summer, and the utility gives them back to us in the winter when we need them.

We've generated 42.4 megawatt hours of power since we started the system up about 5 years ago. Of course in FL your experience will be different as you get a lot more sunny days and longer days of sunshine than we do.

I can't help you with the inverters...we got what the solar co. offered at the time.

We also went with geothermal. I think a lot of that choice has to do with the outside temp. Generating heat is all about the delta t ... difference in temperature. It's easier to extract heat from warmer air temp than from cold. In our area, it gets so cold that heat pumps wouldn't work. Underground though the earth is pretty constant at about 52 degrees in our area, so we can extract the earth's heat year round. In fact another name for geothermal is ground sourced heat pump.

I would also suggest you investigate tankless hot water heaters. We are very happy with ours and they are incredibly energy efficient. For example, we figure we use hot water in our master bath no more than 20 min a day and that's the only time the water is heated. The rest of the time it's 0 energy use.

But the most important thing on going green is insulation. Regardless of how you generate a btu, the longer you hang onto it, the better it is. Look into spray foam insulation...esp closed cell if you are in an area where it might get wet. It's expensive, but it makes for an even more structurally sound house, a much quieter house with high energy efficiency and it's waterproof.

Geothermal isn't practical or possible for us because we live practically on top of a water table. We are bounded on one side by a creek and have another one that runs through our property. Drilling downwards even three feet in some areas and you run into water. At six feet there is water almost everywhere. There is no way to go deep enough with geothermal, and to go horizontal the system would have to be so far from our house it would cause inefficient loss of electricity. We would love geothermal :-(

Actually, geothermal doesn't care if you hit water...it's a closed loop system and you are only looking for the temperature differential. In fact some people run their geothermal loops in water...ponds, lakes and such. Other systems will make use of underground aquifers.

I so badly want to get away from ConEd (and Comcast, which is the only provider here). "Supply" charges are double the actual usage charges. I also don't trust these companies at all. Unfortunately, I had a solar company out to assess my roof for panels, and they said that, because of the newer federal guidelines, my house didn't qualify because of a couple of trees, yet I still have a good expanse of roof, so it's kind of strange. And I can't afford to buy them myself. Hopefully it will all catch on and bring prices way down and put these huge utility companies on alert.

Annie--- w e are aware of that, and a few years ago had an independent engineer come out to assess the possibility of geothermal. Companies whose business is to put it in will tell you it can go anywhere. For one thing, the number of underground springs makes it difficult to select a spot. I don't want them to tap into a new spring that causes more erosion. Because of where it is sited our pond can't be used, it is a man made pond and the ground around it was somehow stabilized with piers (we didn't build the house so I don't really understand what was done at the time) and the engineer said we'd best stay away from that area. The three acres around the house has many obstacles in the form of hardscape, two septic systems with drain fields (in the most likely drilling spots), a tennis court, and extensive underground drain systems in the back to carry water away from the house. (We spent almost 30k trying to manage the water right around the house!) Further afield, finding a good spot for geothermal would mean a lot of loss due to the distance from the house, and then there is the problem of cutting down trees for access to a spot as our land is managed under a conservation plan with our county. It was going to cost so much that we would never see a ROI. That's when we started considering solar.

adding..... there is not a local company that could put in a geothermal system for us---we would be getting a large firm from a big city and from experience we know there is ALWAYS trouble with service after the sale. I am loath to install a system that no one in town will work on.

Well, you clearly know your land better than I and you've done your homework...I just didn't want you operating under a misconception.

It was a big disappointment when we first investigated this a few years ago. I would never have bought this place--it was DH's dream home, not mine. We are the lowest point in the county and over the past ten years we've seen serious erosion and flooding. We've lost some huge otherwise healthy trees that just gave up their roots and went over. Next to the house we had a beautiful redbud tree that was my pride and joy.... I came home one day and it was just laying down on the ground in full flower. The foundation of our house is 20" of poured concrete.

On the bright side, DH has gotten an electric car and now a solar system makes even more sense as panels would pay for his car as well as HVAC.

Slightly OT, what kind of roof do you have? They are making big strides in thin film applications if appearance is important to you. I have friends working in this area (coatings and integrated solar) and with any luck there will continue to be lots of exciting developments in the next ten years!

I can't wait 10 years! Tell them to hurry faster! I look at the solar displays every year but so far, too much $$$$. In retrospect I wish I would have gotten on demand hot water. I am happy with my geothermal so far. I had a lemon heat pump that was constantly broken down from the first winter I owned it. That was a huge amount of money down the drain both in uncovered repairs and increased electric usage for "emergency heat". Needless to say that company is not welcome on my property and my geothermal did not come from them.

Oaktown, we have asphalt shingles with a 3m coating that has a 20 guarantee for no mildew. The roof was put on in 2012. We REALLY wanted solar shingles but they were not available closer than Texas. The additional freight and expense of having to fly technicians up to oversee the installation, not to mention the hassle of building inspection, put that ROI out near the point where we would need another new roof. I was very disappointed!

I've wondered about this. Our insulation contractor touted the deals and rebates. In our area, they install the panels for free and lock in the rates for something like 20 years -- which might look great now but I wonder about that going forward.

Anyone go for that deal?

Our bills are relatively low for the size of our house and we insulated several years ago. Our state was giving excellent rebates and a mortgage-ized way to pay for the insulation costs via the electric bill. So if we sell, we haven't paid upfront -- the balance of the cost can be passed to the next owner. The loan interest is tiny.

However, I made a lifetime investment in LED floods which definitely helps keep our bills lower. Think I calculated it would take 4 years to pay off and we're nearly 3 years into it. Though eventually, when I run out of work-around incandescent bulbs we'll need to replace switches. I'm not looking forward to that.

Kswl2, guess you'll just have to wait for them to make good solar windows!(transparent cells) ;-)

So, Annie, 42.4 megawatt hours of power is 42,000 KW over 5 years right? Or about 8,400 KW a year. If my system performed even that well and I got a 10K system, that would mean I'd get around 16,800 per year... Being in FL, it seems reasonable then that we'd get around 18,457/annual since we get a lot more sun here...

You said it generates enough power for 8-9 months of use... you use both A/C and heat in your house I'm assuming? And the power you generate is enough to mostly cover that for most of the year?

We have pretty good insulation already. We could theoretically replace the hot water heaters, of which we have 2, but those are both newer and I hate to get rid of perfectly good water heaters at this point.

The biggest thing for us is electric is just so expensive down here. And propane is a joke. I'm seeing prices of $4.59 whereas in PA we paid $.89. I don't know what could account for that difference!

When no one is here, our base bills for just running the pool are $162/month. When we're here, even w/o using air conditioning, it's $282/month on average, and thats w/o turning on A/C.

In PA w/our geothermal, we pay around that same amount for a bigger house to air condition it down to 68 degrees. I'd like to be able to use the air conditioner and to heat the pool, but don't want to spend $900 a month to do it. I am hoping that the whole house solar and the heat pump for the pool will allow me to do both of those things...

The system I'm looking at is 10 KW for $30K if we pay cash (which we'll probably do).

We were offered financing through another company- they would have done $9189 at zero interest for 18 months (the amount of our tax rebate- so that would give us time to file our taxes and pay it off) and then financed the remainder at 2.99 percent over 12 years... which would have given us a monthly payment of $172. So, even if our electric bills were an additional $50 to $100 a month on top of that, we'd come out about even or a little better. It seems like it is worth it w/ that kind of financing deal (although we don't like to take on debt so we'd rather just pay up front), but my concern is they over promise...

Our roof is just a plain shingle roof. The appearance won't bother me I don't think- there's a lot of houses around us w/ solar panels...

kswl that stinks about geothermal and about your trees :(

Anyone have a solar attic fan, which we could do as an add-on for another $750. Trying to decide if that is worth it.

Have you looked at how your pool might be effecting your bill? f you have you have a one speed pump and it is running full time that is a giant power suck. The pool guys like it on full time because it makes their job easier but you should be able to put it on a timer. If you heat the pool in the winter that is also very expensive especially if you aren't covering it.

beagles -- yes on the micro inverters

deee_gw, we do have a one-speed pump, but it is on a timer. We don't currently have a functioning heater at all, but I want to heat the pool (that's one of my main goals).

The heat pumps I am looking at are a AquaCal T135 or a Gulf Stream.

The solar guy who came to give me the whole house quote said w/ electrical power, I would be looking at a little over $1100/year to keep the pool and spa heated year round to 85 degrees pool and 104 spa. With the solar panels installed, most of that cost should be offset....and we won't be heating the pool year around since we're only here in the winter.

Oak town, so micro inverters are better and I should lean towards the company offering those?

We had a 10Kw system installed about 2 years ago. Lots of sun here in So. CA. We paid cash. We have a clay tile roof and they removed the roof tiles and put asphalt shingles in the areas to be covered with solar panels. The end result is that our solar panels sit flush with our tile roof and looks more attractive and less bulky.

The problem we found is that we based all our usage/savings calculation on the electric meter that was on the house. When we added the solar we were forced to upgrade the meter ... we didn't see this coming ... but the new meter is not calibrated the same and we are not seeing the savings that we had expected. The electric company denies there is any difference, but there is no way for us to independently verify or test. The new meter clocks our usage at about 1/3 more. They say that the old meter must have been inaccurate ... yeah, right!

So before you sign any contracts, you might want to find out what the electric company installation requirements are in your area. Do you need a new meter?

In my area, we were also not allowed to do a battery backup or run independently. So if the power goes out we are blacked out. Stupid. Just another reason to disuade people from choosing solar.

In my area, we were also not allowed to do a battery backup or run independently. So if the power goes out we are blacked out.

I'm not certain, but I believe this is currently the case in FL, and it's a large part of the reason for the proposed state constitutional amendment on the ballot next time.

But the utility companies (particularly FPL) have their own version of the amendment which would grandfather in the status quo, hoping to confuse folks into voting for that one.

For all that we're one of the sunniest states, solar options are much more restricted here than most places. Maryland has more in-home solar than we do, for heaven's sake. IIRC, there are only four states with such restrictive solar policies, and we're one of them.

EDIT BTW, beagles, you should check with your pool cleaners about that 85º. You have to use a LOT more chemicals in a pool as the temp goes above 80.

It is stupid, because in FL (my parents live there) you are allowed to have a generator with a subpanel and wired switch, so what is the difference from running your house off a generator or off of solar panels?

The electric company in my area of LA, claims that operating my solar panels during a power outage would be dangerous to the linemen, as power could leak out and kill them as they try to repair the problem. FL doesn't seem to have a problem with electrocuted linemen when many are running power with generators during storms. The technology to separate the systems is available and works, we aren't allowed to use it.

This is all about a utility company trying to control their revenue and profits ... they have no interest in promoting solar. When I first moved to So CA, it amazed me how few houses had solar in my area. I now know why!

Hi beagles, when we looked at solar, micro inverters were the only possibility that made sense for us due to shading issues (and we still have too much shade). My friends would say that at a simplistic level micro inverters are preferred if cost is the same. BUT if you have no shading/directional concerns, and if this is relatively new in your area, I might hesitate to be "one of the first." What do your neighbors have?

Yes our electricity provides both our heat and our a/c.

"When no one is here, our base bills for just running the pool are $162/month"

Wow! You might want to have someone check if something is wrong with your pool pump. I'm just a little north of Tampa, TECO customer. Our pool electricity is approx $40.00/month. The pump runs 10 hours a day during the summer, 6 hours a day Oct-April. Our pool does have propane heat which we no longer use.

We rarely use our heat (heat pump) have the AC at 73 during the day, 72 at night mostly. We have never had an electric bill over $300.00. 2600 square foot house.

chips that is so ridiculous! I will see what my power company says. Our meter is a smart meter and pretty new so I can't imagine they would have justification for changing it out. The solar power companies showed me actual bills from customers who brought their costs down from over $500/month to $90/month, so it seems to work for some at least.

So if the power goes out we are blacked out - I'm not 100 percent sure what you mean by this? Is this different than if you had on-grid power and were blacked out? You were hoping that solar would allow you to keep getting power if the power went out? That's not a huge concern for us b/c we aren't here during storm season and we have a backup gas generator anyway.

maddielee we are TECO too. Why is ours so high, I wonder?!?

We have three running waterfalls and a water jet and our pool is fairly large, but still! And we don't even run our air conditioner and our bills are still almost $300!?!?!

I guess it's not just for running the pool, I misspoke on that a little. we do leave the fridge running and our landscape lighting on- but still!!

Have you had TECO come in and do an energy audit? I'm pretty sure it doesn't cost anything.

No, but I think I will...

Do you know how many KW a month you use and what your TECO rates are (if you don't mind me asking?) I want to compare mine to yours. If you'd rather not share (or rather email) no biggie!

i pulled my last bill. 1,711 kWh 30 period ending on November 4, 2015

Basic service charge 110 rate $ 15.00

Energy charge

First 1,000 kWh @ $.05561/kWh

above 1,000 @ .06561/kWh

Fuel charge

first 1,000 @ $ .03559/kWh

above 1,00 @ $ .04559/kWh

When our power is out, our solar is out. We are connected to the grid and the inverter needs the signal from the power system in order to sync up. And they don't want the solar panels feeding the system when the linemen are working or they could get electrocuted.

Thank You So much!!

We were at 2300 kWH last November (basing it off that since we haven't been here for a full month yet).

Our rates are the same as yours. There is no way we should be that much higher than you, I wouldn't think, since you use A/C and we don't!

I am going to call them and schedule an energy audit. There must be something wrong!

And they don't want the solar panels feeding the system when the linemen are working or they could get electrocuted.

Yes, but as chispa pointed out, it's very simple to prevent that, just as you do with any other type of in-line generator. The hardware exists and isn't that costly to install; just forbidden if you use solar instead of gas.

Yes, beagles, something is wrong. We have FPL over here, but as far as outdoor lights and the fridge, last spring when the humidistat was keeping the AC off (it was hot as heck, but so dry the humidity never got up enough to turn on the AC unit) one of my snow bird neighbors called to ask if I could understand why her bill was only ten dollars that month. And she has a very old fridge, not efficient at all.

kswl2 -- that "no holes" roof setup looks like a disaster waiting to happen. I have a home in MN and the wind will tear shingles off -- let alone a "sail" like that! I'm certain it needs to be tied down somehow to be safe or you risk losing the entire array. Our wind storms this year tore off attached patio roofs (attached wood with shingles), blew over fencing, and even pushed in and ripped out garage doors - and that was only straight line winds, not tornados.

I'm on hold and have been for the last 10 minutes...

I'm just trying to figure out what the heck could be causing my bill to be so high.

We have 2 fridge/freezers, the pool pump, and a security monitoring system. That's all that runs when we are not here! and our pool pump is on a timer. I just assumed it was the pool but it is not seeming that is the cause based on what you are saying your bill is...

Could be the fridge and freezers. Especially if they run when the temp inside the house in the summer is high.

They do- they are newer and energy efficient, but I guess they could still be the problem.

The TECO people are coming on the 14th of Dec so we'll see what they say.

Loonlake----the company that produces the solar pods is located in Minnesota and they have NEVER---not once----had a problem with it. The engineering of the loads with weight is impressive. Its not dangerous :-)

beagles, our Florida pool was enormous and we had commercial equipment for it. The propane fired heater did a terrible job and was in redibly expensive. We replaced that with solar heating of the water to an even 90 degrees year round, and switched out the system to salt water. It was the single best home improvement we ever have made, anywhere. No chemical worries even with the higher temps and the water was silky and smooth .......and warm! Back in 1995 it cost almost $9k, worth that and then some.

id like to hear more about the salt water conversion. Did you still have to use any chlorine? Did that keep the pool clean enough? Did your pool hold up ok to the salt? The dogs drink the pool water here and I hate it and have wanted to convert to salt but have been told it is very very hard on the pool if it was not designed for salt to begin with and that you still end up having to use a lot of chlorine in Florida?

No, if we had battery back up then we could run independently of the utility no problem. However, in order to get the subsidies, we had to be tied to the grid. We also didn't want to deal with acres of batteries in the basement and recycling them when they went bad, so chose to skip that part. Instead, we have a 20kw propane fired generator which keeps us running when the power is out. The system is set up that our solar system kicks in 10 minutes after the power returns just to be sure that we won't electrocute anyone. I believe the technology exists to have us set up to operate independently during an outage, but that it was cost prohibitive for our purposes. Plus we would still be out of power at night or pretty much during a storm with clouds which is just when we'd need it. So we chose the more reliable "jenny the generator".

Beagles, does your pool get plenty of sun? We were told that ours wasn't a good candidate for salt water system because ours is so shaded. (Caged and tree cover).

I wish we could change ours over.

Beagles, glad to hear you are pursuing an energy audit. Hopefully, they can get to the bottom of your high bills, because something definitely seems wonky.

In the area of "normal" high energy use, do your waterfalls run when you aren't there? Pumps use a lot of energy.

Depending on what equipment you are starting with, there are a lot of potential savings from both landscape lighting and your pool pump. A variable speed pool pump saves about 70% over a single-speed pump. Or there are solar pool pumps. Fluorescent lighting saves a bunch over incandescent and LED saves even more.

We have a lot of trees but not real close. How close are your trees? Our pool does seem to get a lot of sun, but the solar people said the roof above the pool area is bad for solar panels b/c it is northwest facing, so maybe it would not work?

Do you have more tree cover and shade than mine? You can see where the shaded areas are:

cawaps our waterfalls are on the same hookup thing as our filter so when the filter runs, they run. We have a remote control system that came w/ the house that is supposed to let me turn them off but it isn't connecting properly right now (or maybe I just don't know how to use it).

Could I switch out my motor to a variable speed one w/o getting a whole new unit? We do need a new motor for our pool pump, but I don't want to get a whole new pump. If I could just pop a variable speed motor into the same pump, maybe that would be a savings?

Looks like you get plenty of sun. My trees are right over the pool causing the shade. It's my understanding that the water needs a certain amount of time with full sun each day for the salt to work.

Annie, the issues is that the technology is there to run solar panels during a power failure, but I am not allowed to use them because the electricity providers decided it is bad for their bottom line. In my area, I am also not allowed to use battery backups, even if I am willing to pay for it. At some point this will change, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

I'm shocked that CA isn't more solar friendly w/ all the power issues you have out there!

Beagles, we had no problems whatsoever with the pool finish (gunite something) and never added chlorine. We did shock the pool in certain circumstances---after very heavy use---but the adding salt (the same kind you buy for your water softener) was the main thing we did. We had a pool guy who cleaned the filter snd skimmers and tested the water. Our pool was screened also but we ran a Hayward vacuum whenever anyone wasnt in it.

thanks kswl2. I was going to get salt conversion quotes and then I started reading all these stories about pool equipment corroding and pool decks being destroyed by salt. Guess I shouldn't trust random internet sources!