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norar_il

I have some "what the heck is this for" silver questions

norar_il
8 years ago

I was going through my silver chest, mostly inherited, so there are several items I have no idea what they are for. I know you silver people can tell me.

Are these guys called bullion spoons? Cream soup spoons?

This short, fat fork must have some specialized use.


Help, please.


These look dangerous but must have a special name.


The twisty, stabby thing intrigues me as does the half knife.

Any help is appreciated.



Comments (42)

  • bossyvossy
    8 years ago

    don't have a clue, just wanted to comment on how beautiful they are.

    norar_il thanked bossyvossy
  • maddielee
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Your twisty thing is a butter pick, for stabbing a pat of butter.

    norar_il thanked maddielee
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  • stolenidentity
    8 years ago

    well I know just a couple. The second pic is a sardine fork. The third pic item on the bottom is a tomato spoon. I was just looking at a book that I recommend. It is fascinating and your pieces are in there!

    The Evolution of Useful Things: How Everyday Artifacts-From Forks and Pins to Paper Clips and Zippers-Came to...Feb 1, 1994

    by Henry Petroski



    norar_il thanked stolenidentity
  • User
    8 years ago

    I can't tell about the soup spoons because I can't tell the size -- bouillon spoons are shorter than other soup spoons and then there is a gumbo spoon which is a bigger soup spoon.


    The second picture is a cold meat fork -- for some reason they are short.


    The third picture: top - fried oyster fork, middle - cake fork, bottom - tomato server


    The fourth picture: top - another cold meat fork; second - I think a different type of pickle fork ; third - I honestly don't know because I can't determine the length ;

    fourth - pickle fork; fifth - lettuce fork;


    Fifth picture: top - looks the same as the fourth picture - pickle fork; middle - butter pick; bottom - has me stumped!

    norar_il thanked User
  • User
    8 years ago

    A lot of pieces are the same pattern -- do you know what it is?

  • norar_il
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    You guys are great! Now I need to chase down my unknown patterns. The one there is more of is Lancaster Rose. I have quite a lot of that one.

  • User
    8 years ago

    Beautiful pieces.

    Silversmiths were very clever back in the day.

    norar_il thanked User
  • norar_il
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    The middle fork in the 4th picture is 5 1/2 inches long. So are the soup spoons. Did people really use all those named pieces for the named purpose? I'm amazed at all the styles!

  • User
    8 years ago

    Oh, yes, they did. Some are serving pieces when there were servants and they brought the dish around the table for everyone to serve themselves (think Downton Abbey) -- that's called Russian Service where you have "staff" bring the dish out and the guests take what they want. And, of course, they were made in sterling but then lower class wanted the same so they then made them in silver-plate. Go to replacements and put in lancaster rose. You should be able to see other pieces in that pattern. Not all silver had all the pieces. My sterling does not have a lot of the cool extras!

  • User
    8 years ago

    Linda -- I have to disagree with you -- that middle fork in the second picture is a "cake" fork -- you can tell that by the fact that the tines are tied together. I value your knowledge about anything antique but do look up cake serving fork and you'll see that it looks like that picture.

    norar_il thanked User
  • carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Middle fork in picture #4 looks like what I know as a fish fork.

    So fascinating to think about the layers & layers of 'proper' etiquette back then. I've read/heard that knowing all the correct rules served as an indicator of one's station in society.

    norar_il thanked carolb_w_fl_coastal_9b
  • lindac92
    8 years ago

    Posting a link to a page that shows all sorts of pieces in Lancaster Rose, which is a Gorham pattern from the very late 19th century....when the very "worst" of the wretched excess of silver doo-dads was at it's peak. Note that many of the pieces shown are listed at "custom made" or made to order, indicating that they were not part of the originals but made later of old pieces.
    The fork in picture 3 may very well have been meant for cake, or fish or something else. The fact that the tines are tied together is no sure indication that it was intended for cake, but not knowing the pattern nor the maker, it's hard to look up....but I would happily use that fork for serving pieces of fried fish, or lemon bars...or slices of baloney!...Or paired with a totally unmatched spoon as part of a salad serving set.

    http://www.antiquecupboard.com/ShowPattern.asp?page=1&PatternId=355&pattern=Lancaster&mfg=Gorham

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  • justlinda
    8 years ago

    I tend to think the second pictured fork is a sardine fork.

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  • lindac92
    8 years ago

    The sardine fork in the 3 old patterns I know have much shorter tines....

    norar_il thanked lindac92
  • sheilajoyce_gw
    8 years ago

    I remember the discussion of the American heiresses who married into the English aristocracy on a PBS show. The English loved to watch these American daughters of the wealthy try to negotiate the dinner or luncheon table with all the various pieces of silverware and noted whether they used the right utensil or not. It was apparently a nerve wracking experience for these young American women to experience the gauntlet of prying English society matrons and not all learned their etiquette lessons well enough to avoid criticism.

    norar_il thanked sheilajoyce_gw
  • User
    8 years ago

    shellajoyce -- that is true for the cutlery used at table but a lot of these were serving pieces that were on the dish that was served by staff to the seated dinner guests. No confusion there for the fish fork was on the fish dish, the meat fork on the meat dish.


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  • lindac92
    8 years ago

    From my experience with antique silver....it was the Americans of the Edwardian era who had all the doo dads and thingamabobs. I have seen many many more strange forks spoons and twisted, pierced and specialized silver pieces than I have found in English silver. Theirs tend to be more soup and pudding spoons and fish forks vs meat forks, but none of the things like strawberry forks and individual asparagus tongs which picked up one spear at a time to nibble on.

    norar_il thanked lindac92
  • norar_il
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Linda, I want to thank you for that web site. It's better for identifying individual pieces. I spent a happy time there and saw the butter pick! It said custom made -- does that mean it's not original with the pattern? I did see one like I have in another pattern on another site which was original with the pattern. In any case, it's a neat looking little thing.

  • lindac92
    8 years ago

    Custom made means that some one took a spoon that went into the disposer and reworked the end to look like a butter pick>
    It is my fairly educated opinion that all those twisty little "butter picks" are made from a ruined spoon. I can find no evidence that one was ever made in any of the old patterns, and I don't mean from what is offered on ebay, but from what is found in old silver catalogs. And during the late Victorian era, butter pats were a thing, an accessory to a table setting. They were a little plate placed near the knife on the right to hold a pat or "print" of butter. Sometimes they matched the china, but often they were totally different....they are very collectable now! They make good tea bag holders....or olive pit containers...;-)

    norar_il thanked lindac92
  • norar_il
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I have a list of original pieces for Lancaster and a butter pick was listed -- it may not have been my twisty type, though.

    Do people really collect the butter pat plates? I have a bunch of them with my grandma's china. I figured the only thing they would be used for now was maybe doll dishes. It's a sweet pattern -- little roses all around the edge. My daughters were supposed to get it -- plenty to split. Guess who has no interest in anything which will not go into the dishwasher? Guess who has a bunch of china sitting in a closet upstairs gathering dust?

  • lindac92
    8 years ago

    Oh yes they do....if it's out there someone collects it! Here's only one site about collecting butter pats.
    http://collectorscottage.blogspot.com/2007/02/small-talk-on-butter-pats.html

    What's with the doesn't go into the dishwasher?...if it's china and doesn't have gold to wear off, it will go into the dishwasher just fine! Trouble is, it's kind of hard to figure out where to put those tiny butter pats....they fall through the racks!
    The butter pick with your Lancaster has 2 tines sort of like a pickle fork...it's on that link I posted earlier in this thread.

    norar_il thanked lindac92
  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    This has been a fun post! I have (what I found to be - TY Lindac92 for the link) a steak carving fork. It has a mother of pearl handle & the third "tine" on the underside of the fork & it pivots. Neat piece.

  • nosoccermom
    8 years ago

    Uh, I thought that the spoons in the first picture had little "extensions" on the top and tried to figure out whether this was to ensure that people don't put the spoons with narrow end in their mouth but eat sidewards -- -until I realized that these are the handles of the utensils above.

  • norar_il
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    That's funny!

  • antiquesilver
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I haven't been on this site in a while so I'm late to the party but the half-knife in the last photo is possibly for slicing tomatoes. At least that's what I recall seeing on one of the replacement services. My guess is that it is a sterling handle repurposed with a stainless finding (blade). If the blade is silverplate, it's probably older manufacture (maybe English).

    The fork in the second photo looks like the older style of sardine fork; many patterns near the turn of the century made both styles.

    FYI - the boullion spoons in the top photo are L'Parisienne by Reed & Barton & much more collectible than Lancaster Rose.

  • lindac92
    8 years ago

    Hi Hester....glad to see you!

  • antiquesilver
    8 years ago

    Good to see you too, Linda; GW had become quite boring without you.

  • Tom
    7 years ago

    Hi, I lately inherited my grandmother's Gorham Lancaster set. Being a bachelor, I had never really made a study of flatware, but now I'm intrigued. One thing has me puzzled: this set has 12 dinner forks, 12 salad forks, 12 knives, 12 teaspoons, no soup spoons, but 12 of these huge 8 1/2 in tablespoons. Surely she wasn't using the tablespoons as part of the place setting?

  • norar_il
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I'm no silver expert -- obvious from all my questions -- but I'm betting the spoons in question were used for desserts. Someone who does know for sure will be able to tell you for sure.

    I hope you love the silver. My son will inherit my Lancaster and I'm hoping he'll appreciate it.

  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    There were oval soup spoons...or as a holdover from our British ancestors, a dessert spoon....good for puddings. But the 8 1/2 inch spoon is a serving spoon....all I can think of is they expected to serve 12 different dishes at a meal.
    There were, in silver of that era a cream soup spoon...round bowl for eating cream soups, and in some Gorham patterns, something called a chowder spoon...which was round but shallower, and a boullion spoon, much smaller than a cream soup but also round....and finally an oval soup spoon at about 7 to 7 1/2 inches.
    This site shows all sorts of stuff in Lancaster....ignore all the "custom made" stuff....as well as the things with the stainless "business end".
    http://www.antiquecupboard.com/ShowPattern.asp?pattern=Lancaster&Mfg=Gorham

  • kittymoonbeam
    7 years ago

    I remember someone said the silver mines of the American west along with Victorian table customs created a favorable environment for all these specialty pieces. I think it's fun. Just use them however you want. My old Reed and Barton ice cream slice gets used every year as a Yule log slice/server.

    The one that makes me smile is the Saratoga chips server. (good old potato chips) if they could have a fancy server for potato chips, I want a fancy pizza server to match!

  • sunnyca_gw
    7 years ago

    3rd pic the tomato server was used at our house for Jello salad like pineapple, cottage cheese, pecans in lime Jello, cut in squares & placed on lettuce leaves, just right size to pick up 1 salad & safely get it on your plate. Never served tomatoes with it, think mom had a fork on that plate of home grown tomatoes.

  • Tom
    7 years ago

    As long as I have found helpful experts, another question has been nagging me. This pattern has individual salt spoons. What did these people do with their pepper?


  • lindac92
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    They didn't sprinkle pepper on everything as we do today....but there were pepper shakers.Salt at that time had tendency to clump, it didn't flow freely. I am old enough to remember when some brands of salt didn't have the chemical in it to allow it to flow....so when it rained, it didn't pour! People compensated by putting it in dishes and either using a spoon or fingers to get it out.
    Remember "back in the olden days" pepper was very expensive as it had to come from India or Ceylon....and remember the Suez canal n't open until after the US Civil War....before that shipping had to go around the horn!

  • hounds_x_two
    7 years ago

    I read that the pepper grinder/mill was developed by Peugeot in 1842. (Prior to that, grinding was done by mortar and pestle.) Does anyone know when grinders/mills were first used at the table?

  • lindac92
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The Pugeots made many grinders and mills....for coffee beans wheat and other spices. I don't believe it's true at all that before the pugeots pepper was ground with a mortar and pestle...because coffee, and flour was certainly ground other methods.
    In the link attached it says pepper mills for table use didn't become common until the 1970's, but I remember I had several ots earlier...late 50's I think.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bydesign/pepper-mill/4696824

  • norar_il
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    The salt spoons I have are glass. I have in my mind that that salt corrodes silver. Is that so? Just because I've not seen silver ones certainly does not mean anything!

  • Tom
    7 years ago

    The Gorham Lancaster pattern has salt spoons. I am considering picking some up, just to make for an "over the top" setting.

  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    Yes, salt corrodes silver....will eat it holes in it if you leave it for long.
    Glass salt spoons broke and are fairly scarce, compared to silver.

    In the dark ages....about 1947 or so my mother finally finally got a set of sterling. She bought 8 5 piece place settings with the "hostess set"....Gravy ladle, meat fork serving spoon, pierced serving spoon, master butter and sugar shell. When you bought a set, the jewelry store "threw in" a pin made from a salt spoon....big deal!!
    There are a lot of salt spoons for sale....apparently people were careful not to let them sit in the salt.

    norar_il thanked lindac92
  • norar_il
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Aha! I have a tiny spoon pin and always wondered why someone would make a pin shaped like a spoon. Now I know. Another mystery solved thanks to GW.

  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    Now to find out what pattern it was. But sometimes the spoon pin was just "a pin"...because ti was trendy. I have one that was just a pin. If it was from a salt spoon, it should have the pattern name on the back.
    And what's with the "silverware" jewelry? Back in the 40's girls were bending old coin silver spoons to make a bracelet, and then sometime in the 70's was the craze for spoon rings. People were taking a perfectly good sterling spoon, and having the spoon part cut off and making a ring of the handle. Dumb!...but you know I have one...