Many thanks to all our military, past and present, and their families for the sacrifices they have made for all of us. I remember dinnertime on Veteran's Day in our home when I was a child. I think it was called Armistice Day then. Dad would always have a red poppy in his suit lapel when he came home from work all month long. At dinner that night he would talk about the wartime years. He was in WWI in the navy, and I was born just before Pearl Harbor. And he always would sing for us the song, "My Buddy." It said a lot about the men and women who led us through those years.

And I love to turn on the documentaries of WWII to hear the stirring speeches of Winston Churchill. What a great leader he was for the people of his nation, helping them face danger, privations, uncertainty and encouraging them to keep going on. He rose to the occasion for his country and the free world. How difficult it must have been to live in London during the war.

Sheila, by any chance are you watching Home Fires on PBS?

We've been watching "Home Fires" (love it) and I've been working my way through "Foyle's War" again. I had a dear friend who was a WAC stationed in London during the blitz, and what she shared was so much like "Foyle's War". The Brits just really do these shows so well.

While doing genealogical research in the 80's, I found our family fought in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812 (the famous Battle of King's Mountain), Civil War, etc. How did we lose that information? Then I turned to our young children and asked them if they knew both their grandfather's were veterans of WWII? They sadly said - "NO". That's how quickly we forget, and how important it is to share and remember.

I talked to my sister on the phone today, she's a 6-year Air Force Veteran from the Vietnam era. Our daughter was in the Air National Guard for 3-years, and her husband, a career Army Officer (deployed more than half of their 22-years of marriage - so talk about sacrifice....), currently serving his 26th year, so we have a lot of people to personally thank today - as well as everyone who has served, and their families and friends who have supported them.

-Grainlady

I think of all the men and woman who have served, but especially the Vietnam veterans as my husband is one of them.

Side story: We own commercial/residential property in a small town in upstate NY. The town was installing old fashioned lamp posts which business owners could buy and put their name, dedications ,in memory of etc. My husband's was dedicated to the Vietnam veterans. One of our tenants approached my husband in tears. She was a nurse over in Vietnam and she couldn't thank him enough for this recognition.

Our name is not on this plaque (so only a few people who watched the process know it's ours) because my husband still feels the animosity Americans expressed to those who served in this war. He still felt that there might be retaliation if our name was on this plaque.

Foyle's War is excellent.

My deepest sympathy to those who have lost brave family and friends who were lost in service to our country. To all service members thank you so very much for what you do every day to keep us safe in our homes in our country.

I'm a Vietnam-era military veteran myself, though like the vast majority of those who have been in uniform in the last 60 years, I never came anywhere near combat or danger of any kind.

I think the veneration and respect accorded those who have served is deserved but there are a lot of veterans who honestly served by choice and endured little in the way of personal hardship or discomfort. The draft was eliminated in the mid-70s and there are hundreds of thousands (no, probably millions) of veterans who served since then who suffered little hardship or sacrifice beyond geographical deployments or having to pass a PT test to assess their physical condition. Most serve because being in the military is a lifestyle choice that they prefer. Most military jobs aren't all that demanding compared to what's typical in the civilian world, that's why so many are willing to put up with the low pay rates. Only a small minority ever get shot at.

Those who lost their lives or suffered serious injuries deserve our support and respect. Too many others want to jump on the respect or even a pity bandwagon and don't deserve it.

Oh Snidley -- Your attitude towards veterans who "served by choice" is a tad cavalier and riles me more than a tad. Let me say here that my DH was a career Air Force officer who retired from the military in 1989, after 20 years, with the rank of Lt Col. No, he was not in combat. And yes, he chose the life. His dad was also career Air Force, starting back when it was the Army Air Corps, and he served in the Pacific during WWII.

Your contention that "most jobs aren't all that demanding compared to what's typical in the civilian world" is insulting. As for hardship and sacrifice, it wasn't easy to be separated when the military member is overseas, for him (her) as well as the family left stateside, whatever the reason or locale.

This morning, we received an invitation from our 5-year old grandson that he wanted to take us out to lunch "because Grandad is a veteran". All his own idea, and we had a lovely time with DS and the three grandsons. It was a good day.

Snidely....really!!!!???? You could have kept that thought to yourself and we all would have been fine.

The fact is that many of the people you speak of act as support to others. Also, many or maybe all are available to be called into conflict areas. The fact that they did not get called should not reflect poorly on them. Some are away from their families for many months. That's tough, especially when leaving a family and kids behind. So what if the military is a lifestyle some like? We need military people, and most of us are grateful for their willingness to serve in whatever capacity.

Yes, Socks. I like Home Fires and Foyle's War too. I am so sorry that Bomb Girls was cancelled a year ago. That was an interesting and well done show.

I tried to find a tribute or documentary about Winston Churchill on TV this afternoon, but there were none. Maybe tonight. But I did come upon Calendar Girls and enjoyed watching that while I finished a cardigan for my son's best friend's spring baby.

My father served 24 years in the US Army, including a tour in Vietnam. My FIL served 26 years in the US Air Force, including more than one tour in Vietnam. My BIL served 26 years in the US Air Force, including multiple deployments to Iraq and Afganistan and other combat zones. My SIL also served in the US Marine Corps.

My dh served 13 years in the US Marine Corps (first enlisted and later as an officer) and although he was never formally in a combat zone, he was shot at on more than one occasion while doing drug interdiction work (he says being shot at while under orders not to shoot back is kind of scary); he contracted cholera; and while deployed contracted some other lovely tropical disease that left the other service member with the same symptoms to be shipped home in a coma. Dh also has significant hearing loss in one ear because of working in unshielded radar equipment.

Of course, I could instead describe his service as repairing air conditioned radar equipment, working in an office as the head of his base's police department after he finished college and became a military police officer and having the military help pay for his law degree and then being a military attorney who worked in an office all day. Sounds cushy, doesn't it? Well, except for the being shot at, cholera, etc.

Out of the five veterans in our family, I know four of them were shot at during and as a direct result of their service and I know three of them have permanent health conditions as a direct result of their service--two of them receive some form of compensation as a result so the military acknowledges these facts.

I don't think any of them had cushy jobs. And I don't see any reason to try to belittle others' service.

And i do appreciate everyone who served our country honorably. Thank you for that service.

My two parents were in the military during WW2. One received a disability retirement and lifetime benefits as a result. As I said, I am a veteran. I don't give unconditional homage to "anyone" who had military service and neither did they. I've been on the inside and saw what I saw. Any of you are welcome to feel differently. It was not my intent to offend anyone.

crl, in that I think it's something like 80 percent or more of service members (historically) were never subjected to hostile fire, your 4 of 5 family members who were more than beat the average numbers.

I lost friends to hostile action and knew others who came back and were never the same because of what today would be called PTSD. I also knew dozens of others who served during the Vietnam years and had the time of their lives in Germany or in undemanding stateside postings.

My intent was simply to point out that I've observed that there is a pity posse among some veterans. Many veterans were heroes of indescribable valor and deserve our utmost respect and gratitude. But not all, and without knowing specifics, I withhold admiration.

One of my brothers served in Viet Nam......won't talk about it. During the awful days following 9/11, he went into a full-fledged breakdown fueled by pent up emotions all of those years. Never an inkling until that day.

My city does a great job of honoring ALL vets this whole week. Pencil pushers qualify here, never fear.

Snidely, sometimes you should really consider keeping your mouth shut. Expressing EVERY little dark opinion in your head isn't in good taste.

You may be right.

Snidely, I think I understand possibly where you are coming from. There are some veterans who go around wearing the caps that identify them as Vietnam vets. Often when my husband sees them, he will approach them to share memories. I can tell you that more often than not, the person wearing the cap did not know any of the answers to my husband's questions.

Maybe what you are saying is that not all veterans are created equal. I think my husband would agree.

Yes, we should be grateful for all who have served, but there are some who want the recognition and the glory and quite honestly they should just be humble that they had a small part in the war, and leave it at that. Agreed, where and how the soldiers were stationed was not their choice, pre se.

When my husband knew he was going to be drafted, he decided to enlist and go overseas. By doing so, they cut his service time. He did see combat, and like many has injuries that have exasperated over time.

So, while we might not agree with Snidely, he was there, and this is his opinion, and I get it.

Nanny, I agree with what you are saying, it's just that I wanted to make it known that I understand where Snidely is coming from.

Thank you socks!

I served in the USMC during peace time. I spent a year in a foreign country. My husband served in the Navy and was on a ship that was the first to fire on Beirut in 1984. My son and his wife are current full time members of TN Army National Guard. They have been deployed to foreign countries several times. Any time you perform a job that is not on US soil, your life is in jeopardy. There are many service members who are in jeopardy here in the US. Need I remind you of the recent incidents on our soil? You don't have to face "hostile fire" to be deemed a veteran. A veteran is anyone who served in the military; voluntary or involuntary. The job they performed or the experience they had has nothing to do with it.

After reading ellendi6161's post, I agree with her and see Snidely's point from that perspective. I don't automatically acknowledge someone's service because of an over the counter hat, patch or other banner. If it comes up in conversation, I will talk about their service and what they did but I don't make a big deal about it. I don't make a big deal about MY prior service either! There are very few who know and I prefer to keep it that way. I made the choice to join the service and I enjoyed my time in. I would do it all over again without any regrets.

I sometimes ride motorcycles with some former and current service members. There are those who wear ball caps, vests or some other adornment to indicate their prior service. The current service members are quite obvious due to how they keep their hair. During one long trip across the state, we stopped at sit down dinner chain restaurant. As people left, they walked past our table. Many people stopped and thanked all the MEN for their service. When I mentioned that everyone at the table was a veteran, the "acknowledgers" basically dismissed me. While I didn't get mad or anything, it was rather disheartening to know that women's prior service just didn't seem as important. To sit at a table of 14 people, be the only female present and have the prior/current service of the MEN be recognized was a bit of an insult to me.

There are some non-veterans who feel they have to go above and beyond to recognize anyone who served. Those folks sometimes mistake those over the counter adornments as actual representation of those who served. You certainly cannot tell by looking at someone if they are prior military.

Veteran does not equal Hero. I agree completely with Snidely.

I hate all the whoop-la and marching bands -- the same false patriotism that has lured young men into the military and supported wars for centuries.

Speeches and celebrations divert attention and money away from the victims of wars (all of them, including members of the military). We have people in dire need of financial and medical care in the US and in nations our armies ravaged -- to no good end (and that we are about to do again).

Politicians in the pockets of arms makers are making Veterans Day speeches advocating *more* killing and maiming of our own and other nations' sons. GOP candidates are saying we should add to an already bloated Pentagon budget and send more Americans to the Middle East.

It's all just very sad. I fail to see any cause to celebrate our costly interventions in Vietnam and the Middle East.

What galls me most is the cheering while the VA continues to fail, and we continue to *have* this ridiculous, separate, veterans-only medical system. Abolish it. Let the government pay for veterans to use all the existing hospitals and providers instead of reinventing this square tire VA. (The VA hospital system was created in lieu of a widespread system of medical care across America.)

People who choose a military career are not automatic 'heroes'. It's a living, and one with early retirement and other benefits. It was also an alternative to being drafted into lesser positions.

I pity those who were drafted and became the work horses sacrificed in WWI and WWII and Vietnam -- often because they didn't have the clout that wealthier families wielded to get deferments or to enter officer training. I pity the young men enlisting today *because* they cannot find careers (or even *jobs*) that will support a family.

Thank you veterans and all the family members who sacrificed in one way or another! Or multiple ways!

________________

While I fully understand it was hel_ for those who didn't choose to serve snidely, I have to strongly disagree with:

"veterans who honestly served by choice and endured little in the way of personal hardship or discomfort"

I fully guarantee daddy endured loads of personal hardship and discomfort. If you were in the military, and you were overseas, you saw it up close and personal. He didn't get out of anything. He did enlist voluntarily, and made a career of it But trust me when I tell you, he faced bullets and physical hardships too; he didn't sit behind the desk in some cushy kind of job? I have no idea why you think that, but it's not what happened. His best friend, a navy seal, spent his time turning enemy claymore mines around to fire on the enemy (hit by their own artillery, hm), and has a metal plate in his head now. I'm fairly sure he volunteered too.

Combat has turned many a veteran into a hero, but overuse of the term "hero" has diluted the meaning IMO. However, every veteran did a job that was important to the overall military cause, whether one agrees with that cause or not, whether volunteer or career. Support given from behind a desk enabled combat troops to be supplied, so anyone who served/serves in the military (including the National Guard, remember) is a veteran and deserves thanks for doing their part to keep the rest of us safe at home.

Thanks to those who took the time to read and give some thought to my comments. And to realize that like most things, these matters are nuanced and are not fully comprehended if all you look for is a slogan or a 10 second soundbite to complete your understanding. No comments specific to anyone's friend or relative were intended.

Are false patriotic notions used and overused in and in connection with the military? Absolutely. I always tried to do my best to do what I was told. Did I contribute to the success of any reasonably important military mission or to the safety at home of any civilian. No, not by a long shot.

I want to reiterate my thanks. Especially for you snidely. It does go the other way. You get extra thanks since you didn't choose. I'll keep that in mind for others like you in the future.

(((snidely))) truly