Wow! What a winner! I have no idea who she is, but I would definitely like to know.

I reminds me quite a bit of Silver Moon.

Almost certainly Silver Moon. Mine has gone to RRV heaven, but there's a look you can't mistake, from the blooms to the leaves and thorns. I assume those pots are bottomless (or else the roses have rooted through the drainage holes?), because I can't imagine keeping a rose as vigorous are SM confined to any pot. Does it smell like green apples with a mild undertone of soap? If it does, I would bet money it's SM.

John

I was kinda hoping it might be Clark's 'Milkmaid', but it does look more like 'Silver Moon', just going by the HMF photos...

Whatever the name, it's a survivor, and a beauty. Fragrant?

Virginia

Wow, thank you so much Roseseek, John and Virginia. It's quite a thrill to know I have a name for the rose after all these years. Now that I know her name, would it be OK to put the photos on Help Me Find as Silver Moon (following on from Jackie's other thread, I have a couple of 'whole bush' shots) or should I be absolutely certain of the ID first?

I do remember that the rose had a light, very pleasant scent, but I couldn't identify it as 'green apples with an undertone of soap'. I think that John is right too - the roots must have found their way out through the drainage holes in the bottom of the pots and through the brick paving into the soil below - not good soil at all, btw, but it is clay so I guess they're happy.

This is the photo of the two roses in their pots (taken on 7 October 2010 before they had started their Spring flowering) -

Having seen this rose in the late Muriel Humenick's garden it's difficult to believe they can prosper in those small pots, and yet they look quite content. It does look like the rose I saw in her garden but that was years ago.

It's pretty amazing what cramped conditions those house-eating roses will put up with, isn't it? I know a rose that has no label, but which I'm now pretty sure is a 'Cecile Brunner, Cl.' Not exactly a shrinking violet of a rose, but it has been confined to a large nursery pot for at least 12 years, and probably a coupla decades more, and gets whacked back whenever it grows into a nearby path.

I took a cutting from that unlabeled plant last year. I then got an online ID from photos I took of the parent plant, so I figured I had a 'Mlle Cecile Brunner' polyantha. This April it started to throw out very long canes, though, and got moved to a quick succession of larger nursery pots.

All of my roses are youngsters and in pots, but this one has been hollering to get out all summer, and is actually slated to be the first rose to go in the ground here, so if you don't hear from me next year, you'll know I probably got too close to the plant and got trapped inside...

Here's a link to a photo I took of the parent in bloom: https://www.flickr.com/photos/87333171@N08/17357244440/in/datetaken-public/lightbox/

Virginia

Virginia.... off topic a little, but can I just say I've so enjoyed viewing your flicker feed there and apart from all the gorgeous Camellias and roses, there are 2 photos that I found are stand outs for me... the one of the little Northern Mockingbird in a yellow flowering bush, and the one marked 'Reflections'...that's just a fantastic shot...good enough for a lounge wall... I was thrilled.... thank you...

Virginia, thank you for your suggestion to contact the HMF Admin - I'll do that via the Member Comments page. I had already read Kim's story and found it quite moving. It's true how certain memories seem to be bound up with certain flowers. I don't think I'll have much luck finding a known plant of Silver Moon - I did a Google search and couldn't find any Australian rose nurseries (including online ones) that offer it although it's obviously at Ruston's Roses in South Australia because one of the few photos of Silver Moon was posted by Margaret Furness of their Silver Moon (there are only five people who have posted photos of Silver Moon on HMF).

I wonder why such a strong growing rose is no longer popular?

It is very easy for a rose to no longer be popular. Its vigor can often work against it. Not many people have the room (or energy!) to deal with a rose that REALLY loves to grow. Add once flowering, and many are immediately turned off. As with many types, there are climates in which it refuses to flower. It appears to want some "winter chill" or it only grows. You've read my account of how it came to be a "family rose", and I grew it in Newhall, CA for 18 years, allowing it to develop into a real mountain of a plant. There, where some years there was a 100 degree variation between winter lows and summer highs, it frequently exploded into flower in spring then scattered flowers throughout the remainder of the year. But, that is not a guaranty. In Jeri's old climate, which seldom had any really "hot" days and almost no "winter", it didn't bloom. Very few people have the room for that kind of "prickly kudzu". Look how many grow Mermaid. It is also a huge grower and it flowers repeatedly, with larger flowers with more color, but who has the room, or desire to attempt to beat it into submission? If your yard is a quarter of an acre or larger, you can spare it. Anything less and it can too easily, too quickly "eat it". I love both roses, but my "retirement" garden is smaller than a quarter acre. I've grown both (Silver Moon and Mermaid), and I don't want that battle again!

Yes, I'm sure you're right about its vigour working against it. I had no idea what I was getting when my friend gave me the two roses over twenty years ago - he simply said that it was such a shame to see a rose that had performed so well for so long disappear because the house where it was growing had been sold and the developer was going to bulldoze everything. He didn't know the name of the rose and neither did the owner of the house where it was growing; As it turned out, I planted each of the roses in the pots shown further up in this thread and they've stayed there ever since. They're growing against a west facing cement-rendered brick wall of a garage in the back courtyard of a terrace house in Sydney. The courtyard is roughly 5.5 metres wide by 7 metres deep and the roses take all sorts of punishment (the tenants have two young boys who like kicking a football around the courtyard) and keep coming back.

As for your comment about Silver Moon needing 'winter chill' to flower, I can vouch for the fact that when these two plants flower (every year around this time for several weeks) they're covered in hundreds of blooms. I certainly wouldn't call inner-Sydney winters cold, though. The coldest I can recall it ever getting in that particular area is around 6 or 7 degrees (Celsius) so, around 42 - 45 F. Sydney has a very temperate climate with the highs in summer seldom being more than the mid to low 30s. Of course, a couple of years ago I recall one summer day when the temperature was 45.8 but that was very anomalous.

I may go back to Sydney next January and I'm wondering whether that might be a time when it could be possible to take a cutting and see if I could get it to grow? My brother lives in the country and has some lovely roses and he certainly gets plenty of 'winter chill', too. He has a huge yard and I'm sure he could find a place for Silver Moon.

Perhaps a more accurate statement might be "seasonal variation". Many plants require a threshold of temperature change to stimulate flowering, as well as halt it. We all see plants flowering "out of season" because of odd weather patterns. If the plant doesn't receive the difference between heat and cold it needs to flower, it probably won't. Obviously yours receive the variation required or they wouldn't bloom. The flip side of that are the climates where "spring flowering" types, such as Banksiae, Fortuniana; here, my Hugonis hybrid which is now starting to set buds for the third time since March, where in Newhall it flowered in spring only and in Encino, it could flower twice, receive the conditions they need to either continue flowering without resting or provide flushes of bloom. In many places along our coast, Banksiae begins flowering early spring and can continue flowering until mid to late August when the "heat" arrives and stops it. In the same places, many roses which flower only once, don't receive the threshold of temperature change required to even trigger them to flower. I can't think of anything else to explain why in this climate where there really isn't an extreme heat period compared to more inland areas, Fortuniana here is still flowering. Why Silver Moon performed so well where there were distinct "winter" and "summer" periods, but didn't flower for Jeri when her climate was more like this, with a more even climate with much less extreme seasonal variations. Why some species requiring "chill" won't bloom mild winter areas but others which appear they should require it, not only flower, but extend their flowering for much longer than expected. Each one has its threshold, which, once reached, permits it to perform as desired.

It is often a combination of temps and daylight duration. My citrus went yellow and orange from green in a matter of three days when the weather abrubtly turned to chilly a few days ago. Citrus colour change is supposed to be triggered by daylight duration changes but I can only attribute this abrupt change to that combined with the weather change.

That's logical, Nik. Add moisture variations to the mix and we're probably getting close to the answer. It can be quite surprising what simply watering a plant more can do. I've often found disease issues in this climate can be "cured" by giving the plant more water. It can also permit them to flower when they were previously too dry to "ovulate" but not to survive.

Of course. This often triggers 'out of season' flowering also especially when combined with some quick release nitrogen feeding.

Very likely, though not something I usually experience. I don't use any fertiliers on most of my plants other than newly propagated ones or seedlings I want to push. Mature plants seldom receive anything that isn't already part of the soil. If they do well without "feeding", they should do well anywhere else with a similar climate and "average" care.

I had the same problem with Silver Moon in Oakland, California--amazingly vigorous growth but sporadic flowering. It was spreading halfway across my yard and my neighbors yard when I took it out. Here is a photo from the sad day when I killed it:

Thanks, Marlorena, for the compliment. My better photos certainly owe more to luck than skill, but I do enjoy taking photos, and am glad you liked them.

Virginia

tuderte, both your experience and mine seem to point to a way to control those house-eating plants: contain them... literally. They can handle it, evidently, even though they would certainly love more real estate if they can get it. I suspect that some roses do better when not pampered; I guess they like a challenge.

I happen to have enough room (or at least I think I do) to plant out a vigorous climber, just to see what happens. If your brother has room, 'Silver Moon' may be just what he needs, but maybe he didn't realize it? And if you're worried 'SM' will outgrow its welcome there, perhaps try it in a large pot first?

Good luck,

Virginia

You should be able to root pieces of SM pretty much any time of the year. It's strongly Wichurana and that roots extremely easily. It will layer itself on damp mulch. Try several methods to see which works best in your conditions at this time of year. I know it wraps, calluses and roots easily, as I've done it. I have also received roses grafted to it as the root stock. There really isn't a reason not to use it. Good luck!

Thank you so much for the heads up - I seem to get best results with the wrap method but I'll try the 'normal' (I use a mixture of sharp sand and potting mix - about 70/30 ratio) method too and see how it goes.

You're welcome. Good luck!