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danielj_2009

Am I going to lose this weeping hemlock?

danielj_2009
8 years ago

Hi all. I posted here awhile back regarding my hemlock, here:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1894328/weeping-hemlock-in-nj?n=52

I'm concerned that I'm going to lose this tree and I'm not sure why. Two years ago landscaping was redone and some low lying junipers were removed from the area around the hemlock. The rocks were left in place as not to disturb the roots any more than necessary. Last year I had a service spray to keep the adelgid at bay, and while there is a little adelgid visible, not enough to cause the problem I'm seeing. Other culprits are that we've had two very cold winters in a row and also we've been in a drought here in NJ. I irrigate the lawn, which give this tree a good soaking, but not more than once per week or two during this dry spell. It looks to me that I've lost a lot of foliage and I don't know why. The soil chemistry is good, at least for grass. pH is 6.1 and iron levels are reasonable. This thing has grown here for like 60 years being neglected and as soon as I try to spray it and liven it up a little, I kill it. :(

Thanks for any feedback. I could sure use it!

Photo from last year:

Photo from now (you can see some stress on the branches above the white rock, which below are now dead:

Some close ups:






Comments (22)

  • Mike McGarvey
    8 years ago

    I can't see any broad leaved weeds in your lawn. Have you used a weed killer on it?

    Mike

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Mostly, no. I don't broadly use any herbicides or pesticides on the lawn, and certainly do not broadcast spray with a hose end sprayer everywhere. The only thing I have done, and it was OK'ed I think in that other post, is to spot spray some dandelions with Weed B Gone underneath the canopy of the tree. However, I only did this very carefully on a few weeds and only did it probably twice in two years. I probably sprayed a total of 10 dandelions in that time. The last time I sprayed anything near the hemlock was sometime in late spring or early summer. Otherwise, I've been hand picking out weeds.

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  • sc77 (6b MA)
    8 years ago

    What was sprayed to address the alegids, and at what time of year? I actually had similar needle yellowing/loss simply using hort oil in heavy soakings on my hemlocks. The next spring they recovered, but your damage does look more severe.

    Winter in NJ could never damage hemlock, they are bulletproof to z4 or better. Drought isn't a possibility on a tree that age either, except in the most extreme situation. Extreme cold is actually great for alegids...last 2 winters have been so cold here in MA, that my trees have actually recovered quite a bit from past damage, but its just temporary.... They will be back to finish the job


  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I had a tree company spray them last year, and actually didn't do anything to the tree this year. I kept an eye on the adelgids and there wasn't much so I haven't even sprayed them with water. Last year they fed the tree in early July (probably the wrong time to do that). I'd have to find the invoice to see exactly what the sprayed for the adelgid. They came back last fall and applied horticultural oil.

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    Realizing the wooly adelgid is the big item, could it be one of the lesser hemlock pests has set up shop on this plant? I'm thinking spider mites, that sort of thing. Damage does remind.

    +oM

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    8 years ago

    I irrigate the lawn, which give this tree a good soaking,


    ==>>> lawn sprinklers do not give a good soaking.. in the root zona of a tree .... 3 to 8 inches down ...


    but not more than once per week or two during this dry spell.

    ====>>> but who knows if this is enough or not.. my default would be to suggest that a mature specimen of this size.. should be just about bullet proof on taking care of itself for water ... it has roots all over that lawn ... under it of course ...


    perhaps the removal of the other stuff.. put it all out of balance ... it could take a year or 3 to show .... thats tree time ...


    i am not happy its the branch ends.. rather than interior browning though ...


    i would take a hand trowel .. and dig 4 3 to 6 inch holes.. on the compass points.. varying a foot to 3 foot out.. and FIND OUT about moisture at depth ...


    if is bone dry down there.. put the hose on trickle for a few hours... and move it move it around .... a couple times ...


    with the lawn is green as it is.. i am not really feeling drought .... lets see your worst neighbors lawn ... the one who doesnt water .... if it isnt completely brown ... i question drought ..


    anyway ... that all leads us back to the disturbance back in time ....


    there really isnt anything you can do ... other than test for moisture.... all you can do is love it to death ... by trying to save it ... i think you are much better off.. just leaving it be ... it will either survive or not ... but one thing for sure... worrying about it.. isnt going to help ...


    if it were me.. i would plant some replacements .... not bug prone stuff ... so when this one does die.. in 5.. 10.. 15 years .... you have some nice specimens for the spot ..


    ken


    ps: btw... awful close to the road.. was freak snow plowing an issue.. or road salt???? .. or the road recently paved ....???


    pps: 4th pic from bottom.. it looks like the guy across the streets lawn is in drought ... yellow brown in toto ... yours isnt

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Tom: I'll take a magnifying glass and see if anything shows up on close inspection.

    Ken: Definitely very little water if not a real drought. It rained in the first week of July and then not again until the second week in August for a couple of days. Then one more day of rain in August for a total of 1.39" in August. In September we got 1 day of heavy rain totaling 1.34 inches about two weeks ago. Everybody waters their lawn at least a little, but my neighbor didn't water for awhile and he has a large dead patch right next to my lawn that I'll probably have to fix myself, or live with a weed battle if I leave it up to him.

    I irrigate enough to drop 1" of water at a time and one of the nozzles hits the trunk of the tree as it oscillates. This is what I meant by drenching the tree. We're supposed to get a week of rain starting tonight so I'll keep an eye on rain totals. I was worried that removing the juniper disturbed the roots more than expected, changing the environment it's been in for so long. I just don't know enough. I did learn that the severe winter shouldn't have caused a problem, though. Oh, There was a lot of snow but I'd say not a crazy amount of salt. My soil samples showed a little more sodium this year than last, but nothing in a danger zone. Maybe salt is higher near the tree, but short of dumping deicing salt around the tree, could road salt really be the problem?

    Thanks for the comments.

  • Smivies (Ontario - 5b)
    8 years ago

    Cool roots...Hemlock appreciate cool roots. The root zone, now in full sun (after the junipers were removed) could be contributing to the decline.

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    Daniel, if you are able, take a clean sheet of white paper, place under a branch or two, and shake the branches vigorously, to see if any minute critters fall off.

    You guys are looking at perhaps a half a foot of rain in the next few days as you mentioned. I'd not worry about moisture for a little bit here!

    BTW, just read this morning that the east coast of the US has just experienced it's warmest September on record. I know...record smeckord.

    +oM

  • bengz6westmd
    8 years ago

    daniel, remember, you have to look for the adelgids (white fluff) on the undersides of the needles/stems -- not the tops.

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Cool roots, eh? Maybe I could add some ground cover as insurance in the spring.

    Thanks beng... I am aware that the white fluff is on the bottom of the branches.

    Tom: I did some of that yesterday after 2 inches of rainfall. The branches had already dried enough to shake them without getting any water. I didn't see anything alive fall off the branches. Surprisingly, almost nothing at all fell off them.

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I meant to confirm something. If I have a branch with yellow, brown, or no needles at all, is that branch dead forever? I'm hesitant to prune away anything that just turned yellow. What's the proper thing to do and does it matter if I do it in the fall or in the spring?

  • massimiliano_allegri
    8 years ago

    I live in Philly, not too far from NJ. I have a large T. canadensis that has a lot of patchy yellowing, similar to yours but maybe not quite as bad. I actually logged on to ask the forum about it and saw your query. I also have a small weeping hemlock that also has a few yellow branches. They do not have adelgids. We had a very hot and dry September. I am chalking it up to that and hoping for the best, unless someone is confident of some other cause.

  • massimiliano_allegri
    8 years ago

    I believe once the branchlets are yellow like that, they are gone, but someone please correct me if that is incorrect. I have been pruning off yellow branchlets.

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    We have had 5 inches of rain by my measurement this week, so if it is a water/heat thing I wonder if I'll see some improvement. I am pretty ignorant of how conifers grow, so correct me if I'm wrong. But, I did notice new growth a few weeks ago when the weather did start to cool off (save for the Sept heat wave). Like a cool season grass, does this tree grow in the fall as well as the spring? I'm sure I saw a little new growth just before everything started dying off. If the lack of water and the heat was a problem, might I see some growth here in October after the heavy rain?

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    8 years ago

    it should be growing roots in fall ... not really branch tips .... but you give no pic.. so i dont know if its a problem ...


    yes... the rain took care of it for now ... and probably until the heat of next summer ...


    i like the idea.. that it is in shock.. due to the removal of the other plants .... nothing much to do about that ... it will get over it.. when it gets over it .... and perhaps some of the yellowing on certain branches was due to injury related to that project ....


    a branch with what seems like minor damage... can not SHOW the damage.. until the next abusive season ... a hot dry summer... or for me.. a real bad winter .... or even better... both in one cycle .. lol ...


    ken

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    8 years ago

    Any Weed and Feed products? Or pre-emergent herbicide applied with a spreader? And I'll add the adelgids aren't the only little pest of conifers.

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    rhizo: No weed and feed. I did use a premerg last spring - prodiamine 65 WDG for the lawn. I used a one gallon pump sprayer but don't recall if I used it on the mulch mound around the tree. I think I used some Preen granules on that mound the year before. Will a premerg damage this tree?

    edit: I just checked the Prodiamine label and it lists a bazillion plants that it doesn't harm. Weeping hemlock is not on the list, but Canada Hemlock is. I can't imagine prodiamine would be harmless to so many things, but be deadly to the weeping hemlock.

  • danielj_2009
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    It's nice and warm here in late December in NJ. There is a little bit of adelgid white fuzz here and there, but just a little. A local landscaping place has horticultural oil. Is there any reason not to spray the tree with that for insurance at this time of year?

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago

    Check the label-it should have that type of information-but I'd guess it would be okay to use now, under those conditions.

    +oM

  • Sue Hughes Zone 6b in Pittsburgh
    5 years ago

    A DuPont Lawn product called Imprells was killing evergreens.

    Below is a small paragraph on the subject from 2011.

    There may me other lawn chemicals dong the same we don't know about.



    "Imprelis, conditionally approved for sale last October by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, is lethal to mature landscape trees including Norway and Colorado spruce, white pines and other evergreens, according to the complaint filed in the U.S. District Court in Wilmington, Delaware.

    The plaintiffs include operators of the Polo Fields Golf & Country Club in Southfield, Michigan.

    In the complaint, they said Imprelis has caused “the loss of thousands, if not tens of thousands, of mature pine and spruce trees,” and the nationwide damage “is mounting with no end in sight.”

    source- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dupont-imprelis-lawsuit/dupont-sued-over-herbicide-said-to-kill-trees-idUSTRE76E54A20110715



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