IMO...it's the lazy way of getting the job done. And...it's why I don't allow any hands other than my own to touch my system. I agree with you and your friends. It's often a quick fix...time wise...when a repair person/company doesn't want to take the time to root out the problem. It's not a bad fix. It's just quicker and cost you less. Personally...I want to know where the problem lies so it won't happen again. And if I can't find it...then I can do my own reformatting. Again...IMO...diagnosing a system...any system...is a learning tool/process and one that shouldn't be overlooked or ignored. These days most repair companies have such a bag full of diagnostic tools to use that I'm a bit surprised that you've had this experience. But...look at the bright side. Your system is back up and running.

secsteve, if you call a repairman to your house to fix something, and he has 3 tools in his toolbox, you can be sure what he does will involve some or all of those tools. Does that mean that those were the right tools for the job? No, it means that's all he has and if he needs to "do something", that's what he has to do something with. There are no other possibilities.

Unfortunately too many "computer repair" people are woefully inept. It's true that some like that can be helpful doing basic things for a PC user who's at a beginner level and clueless. Beyond that, most have the proverbial 3 tools in their toolbox and if they need to "do something", they have limited alternatives to choose from.

For an Apple product, I think the best choice is going to the Apple store. They know their own stuff better than anyone and can fix anything that's not too far gone. While expensive, they at the same time can be generous with extras that get thrown in.

PCs are less like cars and more like tires. Cars can last a long time if given timely periodic maintenance. PCs and tires, on the other hand, really need little care but also wear out and eventually need to be replaced.

"PCs are less like cars and more like tires. Cars can last a long time if
given timely periodic maintenance. PCs and tires, on the other hand,
really need little care but also wear out and eventually need to be
replaced"

Although I like your analogy, Snidely...I'm pleased to report that my PC has a greater tendency towards the best attributes of my first car...a used '49 Ford for which I paid $25 at a car auction. It just kept going and going even after I turned it over to my envious younger brother after a few years of my use. Not to mention that it could be repaired with little effort when necessary. I was forced to put a new fuel pump in it in the middle of Commonwealth Avenue, Boston in days of yore. It was either that or be hauled off to jail for the pile of parking tickets I kept accruing. Fortunately...I was a quick learner. :-)

I do, however, disagree slightly that PCs don't need periodic maintenance and care. I think they do and that's why mine seem to meander on through thick and thin. It may be minimal...but I believe it does prolong their life span. Keep the dust bunnies down. Keep your system defragged on a regular basis whether the system is set to automatically do it or not. Same with keeping your cache clean...and ridding your system of unnecessary temp files/clutter. It takes so little time and gives so much in returnwhen your system doesn't have to strain to fulfill it's obligations.

Just MPO.

The steps you mention can counter the inevitable slowdown most Windows PCs historically have faced as time passes (that seems to be getting better in my experience anyway) but I'm not sure a boost to longevity results.

I think more regular users have laptops than desktops. They get hauled from here to there, always getting banged and sometimes dropped. For laptops left in cars, the batteries get cooked in summertime and chilled in wintertime, to a greater or lesser extent based on geography. First to go is often the battery, sometimes the hard disk (which can suffer its own abuse from movement when the PC is left on during a car ride), sometimes the motherboards (damaged by heat) .

PCs are much less expensive than they used to be. I consider them to be relatively disposable and best replaced after 3-4 years (I just bought 2 new ones as replacements this week that I'm setting up today). To each his own.

I don't disagree with you, Snidely. I just don't think the picture is as black and white as your contribution inferred.

I have no experience with laptops or smart phones [and doubt I ever will have] but I don't see any holes in your logic.

Having to replace a PC would be somewhat of a hardship for me these days. I'd rather do everything in my power to prolong the life of the one I have. But am happy to read they're more reasonable priced nowadays. Mine is 8+ years old and was custom built. Not an OTC variety. I have no need for Win 10 nor am I a gamer...both of which I know would put a strain on my current system. I'll stick with Win 7 as long as I can. When I can no longer keep the drivers updated...or can't keep my printer or upgrade it to this system...I'll have to start looking. I just hope it'll be a while longer. I have a feeling a new water heater is next in line. LOL

I have two suggestions for you anne for questions you didn't ask, forgive me for that.

-When the time comes to get a new PC, don't buy a "roll your own" model from someone. There's simply no reason to do so. I'll leave it at that. Places like Walmart and Best Buy offer very satisfactory models at good prices when on sale, and you should be able to find something suitable for web surfing, video streaming, light use, etc. in the $300-$400 range. If you want to go the reconditioned route (new models in opened boxes, returned from purchase, etc), even less money.

-Don't spend a moment of your precious time updating a PC's drivers. It's unnecessary. It's like replacing a working extension cord in apparently excellent condition out of concern that the electrons may not be flowing happily.

Drivers connect hardware to hardware - drives to motherboards, printers to PCs, mouses to motherboards, etc. If the hardware is working, the driver is working, and there's no reason to touch it. There's always a risk that a new driver may cause an unexpected problem. It's one of those situations for which people often say "Don't fix what ain't broke" or "leave well enough alone".

When the time comes...I'll have to shop. I actually didn't pay an arm and a leg for the system I have now...but the builder is no longer available. I don't idly web surf to any great degree. I don't stream video. I use my system for research, writing, some business and communication. I would never consider a reconditioned anything...let alone a computer. But that's my personal attitude. And...if my builder were still available...I'd return to him for a new system. He gave me exactly what I wanted with minimal or no fuss and muss at a very fair price...and most importantly...I trusted him.

I know about drivers. I update drivers for necessary hardware that I have on my system when they reach a point that the equipment will perform better with the updated driver...and I've never had an unexpected problem as the result of such action. Beyond that...I let MS do the driving.

I may not be the authority that you seem to be but I do successfully manage and maintain a healthy and fully operative system with very little angst. From the looks of all that I do read about system problems these days...I'd say I'm in a rather enviable position.

I would no sooner want to buy a PC that someone had made in a workshop, even if that person were a commercial PC technician, than would I buy a car, a refrigerator, a lawn mower, or (fill in the blank) of the same description. You're welcome to your view.

At one point in my career, as a secondary responsibility, I oversaw IT support and operations for an office with a PC user community of about 400 people. We were just one location of a multi-tens of thousands person services organization that had a centralized internal use IT group of experts that at that time had advisory rather than operational responsibilities. Meaning, we were on our own to take or ignore their suggestions.

One of our lines of business (and members of the local office user community) were staff who were part of a globally prominent business that provided IT consulting and system advisory services to large company clients. The advice from our central group, and our local practice, was that once a PC was put into service and was functioning, no drivers should be updated unless in an effort to fix a non-functioning PC (where a driver was suspected of causing the problem). This happened a handful of times, what was suspected was corrupted driver files. The suspect drivers weren't updated so much as re-installed. It's from that experience with true experts that I follow the "don't touch drivers" practice at home.

I think a lot of it has to do with cost. First off, most techs at the level we're talking about are relatively inexperienced and there's a LOT to know about how many different versions of Windows that are in use today? Not to mention the most commonly used software that could be causing a problem. Then there's malware. How long does it take to perform a full system scan with just one anti-virus program?

How much would most people be willing to spend to pay an experienced/certified technician to fix a computer than can often be replaced for $400-$600?

Well, Snidely...apparently we must agree to disagree on a few points of interest. I will contribute a couple of final points to this discussion. The tech who built my system had the same if not more experience than you profess to have...as well as having managed the computer system of a major company...and being a certified MS tech. In short...he was more than qualified through education and experience...both textbook and applied knowledge...to build my systems over the years and run a very successful local computer business of his own.

As to user involvement...it's my personal opinion that anyone who uses a system....or any piece of equipment for that matter....computer or otherwise...should learn as much as possible about that piece of equipment...including how to manage/repair it when/if necessary. That, however, isn't always realistic for everyone. I am blessed to have an engineer's analytical mind...and I use it. I've backed myself into a corner with my system a couple of times over the earlier years but rather than replace it or hire someone to repair it...I hunkered down and did the work myself. No! It wasn't always easy...but the rewards were worth the work. I don't indiscriminately change drivers. There have been a few instances where updating a particular driver for peripheral hardware was more than advisable and I did it. Beyond that...any glitch that caused a problem on my system was usually of my own making once I applied logic to diagnosing the problem....but it didn't involve drivers. More often than not it was the careless deletion of something while attempting to tweak my system.

I no longer put fuel pumps in old cars but I suppose...if I really had to...I still could. I own a very uncomplicated 22 year old Honda Civic and were it an absolute necessity...I'm sure I could manage whatever needed attention under its hood. However...my eyesight is failing due to macular degeneration and at the tender age of 76...I don't often pick on things bigger than myself. It's just not physically practical. But I do respect everything I own to the point that I know its innards and how to maintain its health to extend its usable life. For those items with built in obsolescence...I'm a victim as much as anyone else but I try to avoid such products when I can.

Good for you for diving in head first. In doing that you're a rarity for your age and gender, doing what you've done has brought you to insights and understandings your peers would likely neither have nor would grasp.

I just wanted to offer some information to open your eyes a bit. Remember that a tech is to an engineer (or computer scientist) what a nurse is to a doctor. They learn enough to be able to do what they're told and to dabble in areas where little harm can be done. Home grown computers were a popular hobby for geeks and other interested souls in the early days (like the 80s) when PCs were very expensive and the innards were literally pieced together, but those days are long gone. Many of those enthusiasts were from the Heath Kit world (remember them)`, they sold radio kits and other things for hobbyists to put together

I'd never recommend anyone buy anything other than a PC from a big name manufacturer. Even with those, some are much better than others.

My information comes from others, I don't have technical training. I'm a financial guy who spent a career as an adviser in Silicon Valley, working on the inside of many companies whose names you know. I learned a lot through osmosis and from interacting with clients, neighbors, and friends who were (and still are) working on creating various aspects of the techology-rich world we live in. Those experts I know, even those working for companies that make PCs or components therefor, don't assemble PCs at home. Most don't even play much with their inner workings as you suggest you do (Apple has a high market share in Silicon Valley). There's an obvious lesson (in my mind) from that observation.

Keep up your enthusiasm, but don't figit with a machine that works!

I'm a financial guy who spent a career as an adviser in Silicon Valley,
working on the inside of many companies whose names you know.

Ahhh That must account for your sanctimonious attitude. I've known a few of your kind in person. I didn't care for their characteristics up close and personal any more than I care for the virtual/cyber variety. That's probably where you learned your condescension, as well.

Keep up your enthusiasm, but don't figit with a machine that works!

And, young Turk...I shall fidget whenever and wherever I please. You...on the other hand...need to learn...among other things...to spell correctly.

I'd suggest you're painting me with the wrong brush but feel free to call it as you see it.

I am a pretty good speller, most especially when it matters. My grammar knowledge is pretty good too. But when typing fast and with less than full attention (like here) I rely on the spell checker but only half pay attention to that too. I try to check things over, and often edit in the few minutes following a post, but I miss things here and there.

The *worst* computer I've bought was a Dell. It had a hardware conflict (that *they* configured and sold to me) that their tech people couldn't solve after multiple attempts. Returned for a refund.

The *best* computers I've had:

1. Built by my hand, ran for 24/7 for 15 years. It was replaced in 2013 not because of failure but for better speed and access to USB (it ran Windows NT which doesn't support USB). It's in my old/spare hardware stash sitting about 6 feet away, and I'm betting it'd boot right up.
2. Built by the local independent shop.

i paint with a Samsung Galaxy s6 edge cover, but you can call Samsung Galaxy note 5 cover like you see it.