P&G holds the really good stuff patent, so you'll only find a really good TAED in Gain/Tide/Dreft Powder.

What that said... Persil Powder/MegaPearls does have a Bleach Activator in it. ;) And I think the stuff, works better, if you have it on hand.

From Dixan on AW forum --- "Adding sodium percarbonate to detergent with activator (like Tide) doesn't make things better. The reaction between the percarbonate and the activator is stoichiometric. This means you need precise ratio between these two components (the best ratio between percarbonate and the activator is 2:1 - 3:1). During the chemical reactions both components are exhausted. Using percarbonate will lead to excess of H2O2 which will not react with anything, because the activator is exhausted."

I guess if you were able to make sure your ratio was this precise it would be fine. Right?

Laundry Mitch - you are right. Dixan said Persil Pearls was great as well. I think I mentioned that on another message/post.

Laundry Mitch - Laundress on AW said this in reference to liquids. "Personally if doing a load of whites or anything else at temps of 100F or above just add pure sodium percarbonate. Do this especially when using liquid or gel detergents because they do not contain bleaching agents. "

I have learned a lot in the last 2 days about this subject. I used to use exclusively liquids but added powder to that mix a while back. I love Rosalie's Zero Suds, but it is way to expensive to use on all my loads. I tried Tide with Bleach but got too many suds. I will have to look up the ingredients for Rosalie's again, but I am not sure it has any oxygen bleach in it. I will have to see.

Edited to reflect no oxygen bleach in Rosalie's.

I'll say this. I only ever used 1/2tbs to 1tbs, of pure sodium percarbonate, and I noticed a difference when I was adding it. I don't think the limited amount, is enough to overwhelm the bleaching activators, however, 2-3 Tablespoons would probably be a different story.

I'll mention this quickly. I love washing white sheets, in Persil Universal Gel. And I'll typically add a tablespoon of Sodium Percarbonate, for the extra action. With that said... if you dare have something like, coffee or blood stains, you can forget about it. The oxygen bleach is not cleaning that away, and you'll end up disappointed.

Oxygen Bleach, with no additives. Isn't the saving grace. I really think you need to use something like Dixian/Persil or Tide W/Bleach to really get that stuff, clean. Or a really good pretreater ;)

@maylingsmom, did you ever try using a reduced dose, of the Tide W/Bleach?

I have read people really praising the Persil Pearls and always wondered why. But Dixan convinved me it must be pretty good.

The first time, I used like 1/2 tbsp. and actually it was a little less than that. Suds enough to do your whole laundry for a month. I did try one more time and used get this 1 tsp. Still suds everywhere. I truly think that this box must have been at the front of the line and was filled with regular Tide.

I wish I could find a really small bottle of Pearls --- you know like maybe a couple of loads and that way I would know if it made too many suds for me.

But I will add (again) that I love Rosalie's but at 44 cents per load, that is too expensive for all my laundry. I use it exclusively on whites and add White Revive powder. Even with that added, still no suds or bubbles.

@maylingsmom, I remember someone was selling 4 load packs of Persil Megapearls somewhere. I'd check Amazon & Google :-)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DUZN5C/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687602&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000ASNBN0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=118CHE7RNA4RG6Q1PGRT

Here's a 5 load pack, of Universal Powder. :-)

@ maylingsmom....I have tried the Perls/Pearls countless times, and I never liked them. I always found Persil Universal powder or Universal Gel to work much better. Smells cleaner, whitens better, rinses better and clothes looks smoother and not as "matte". The Perls always leave my laundry looking "dehydrated". I know this sounds odd but it's the only way I can describe it.

Thanks, Laundry Mitch. I will do that. I had not even thought of that.

AND Wait, until you try Vernel ;)

Larsi - I read somewhere else that someone thought their darks were getting faded even though the company said safe for colors. I had wondered if more people experienced that.

Thanks, Laundry Mitch, for the link.

@maylingsmom....Oh, don't use Persil Universal powder or Gel on colours or darks....it will fade them.

For colours and darks...Use Persil Gel Colours or Persil Black Expert/Persil for Blacks.

Also, Miele Care Collection UltraColor powder or liquids are great for colours...no bleaching ingredients or activators, and no Optical Brighteners.

@maylingsmom, Listen to Larsi, he's completely right. If you used Persil Universal Powder or Gel on every load, you'd see some pretty dramatic fading, lol.

For Colours or Colors ;) Cheer Powder (now HE) when dosed well, is a wonderful powder. Perwool & Persil for Blacks, also, is wonderful for darks.

Thanks to both of you. Now, let me absorb all this good info. I might have questions later ;)

My view on it is using straight Percarbonate as an additive would give you equal or better results at high water temperatures, depending on the chemical structure of the detergent your adding it to.. The actual Oxi Clean product lacks an activator also. It's only made up of sodium carbonate, and ethylated alcohol which in my opinion does most of the cleaning. I have found using the Oxi product as an additive produces excessive suds and the added washing soda leaves the good harsh. In retrospect it makes more sense to select a blended detergent with an Oxi additive. At least it would be a blended complete product formulated chemically for optimum results. I refer to this as a one shot product.

Geez, doing laundry in America sounds so complicated. And expensive.

O_o

@whirlpool - that's because everything seems to be a scam,deception, or marketing gimmick in the states. The almighty dollar rules. Lol

Rpsinfoman --oxiclean has sodium percarbonate in it as well.

I also think a laundry detergent with an activated bleaching system is tops, however some of us bounce around trying different detergents some without bleaching systems, that's when I like my sodium percarbonate. Lol

I have a few concerns, I don'tthink that I've misled anyone about pure sodium percarbonate, nor do I think I've put anyone down because they use a product I personally don't like. I've tried to voice my thoughts on this product respectfully and as accuratly as I've learned about it. What I've related about sodium percarbonate is what I've learned from Launderess, a pure genius when it comes to laundry products. Everyone here shares their likes and dislikes, success and failures with products. What works for some doesn't always work for everyone, that's just life in The Laundry Room.

That being said, I feel like someone has it out for me and has set out to prove me wrong so to speak, do I care if I'm proved wrong about a product...of course, but only because I recommended something to others and they trusted my judgement.I wouldn't feel ashamed of myself, I don't know everything, I make mistakes I'm quite human. If I'm wrong about something I'd like it pointed out to me, I want to learn. However I think that part of learning is someone teaching, caring enough to do so. I don't believe someone almost essentually deliberatly setting out to prove me wrong with a vengence simply because that person doesn't like me as opposed to teaching me is very nice, nor do I appricate the Email saying * by the time I'm done no one will listen to you again** you know who you are that sent that to me, I just don't understand why, but it doesn't really matter. I think by now the good folks here know I'm just like them, learning, sharing, and making mistakes along the way. What really counts is not weather your right or wrong about a product, but sharing your likes and dislikes about a product with a kind heart. Feeling proud of yourself when you passed on good advice and being able to hold your head up with dignity and saying Thank You for correcting me.

Mamapinky your heart is as big as this forum. Every single thing you have ever typed has been sincere and heartfelt and genuine and usually very funny. You made me FEEL welcome here and I have enjoyed you so much. You have done nothing to apologize for.

Thank you Jean, I feel privleged to be apart of such a great group of folks here,it was my lucky day for sure when I found Garden Web.

People seem to misunderstand the idea of this forum. We offer our opinions on different products and the ways we use them. It is up to the individual person to use that information as they see fit. What works for one person may not work for another and that is what makes the world go round.

I love reading about other people's experiences and helpful hints. It is all in the spirit of the forum.

I can't believe someone would try to "one-up" and disprove someone. If there is nothing to gain by it then I ask"Why"?, To what purpose?

@pink - Don,t beat yourself up. I don't believe you have mislead anyone. What you did do is open a discussion with a lot of fact finding. Those folks at AW are awesome and quite a few of them have solid wash chemistry knowledge. The real take away from the discussion is this:

Sodium Percarbonate in itself is a weak bleaching agent, most of us knew that.

Sodium Percarbonate without the presence of an activator requires high temperature for activation, most if us knew that.

Sodium Percarbonate added to a detergent with an activated bleaching system negates the benefit because of incorrect ratios. I didn't know that but that's why their are wash chemistry specialists.

Oxy Clean is a waste of money, overpriced does not contain an activator. No benefit other than increasing the Sodium Carbonate and still requires high temperature for activation. Better suited for machines that have an onboard water heater.

A one shot product with an activated bleaching system is superior. e.g. Tide, Persil, etc.

Cholorine bleach remains the gold standard for bleaching and disinfection.

So mama look at all the great knowledge and facts you were able to provide indirectly. GREAT JOB!

Oh for Pete's sakes!!!! "By the time I'm done, no one will listen to you again" REALLY???? Someone needs to get a grip! We ALL have OUR opinions on what works and what doesn't work. And are willing and happy to give suggestions based on what we have found. But to personally attack somebody because you don't agree, well that's just wrong! I do not recall anybody demeaning anybody on here. But come on people, life is too short, and the way things are these days. I don't know what your beliefs are, but I don't think it's going to be too much longer before the The Good Lord says enough is enough and the Rapture occurs.

Pinky I have learned from you as well as others here. And I have learned that their are good people in this world wide web. Larsi, Maylingsmom, Sparky, Laundry Mitch, rpsinfoman, just to name a few, but ALL of you have such good and helpful things and advice to say.

MamaP don't let one person get to you. He or she doesn't walk in your shoes. I think I can speak for the vast majority of folks on here. We love you and appreciate you!

MaylingsMom, Just a heads up, the Persil pearls you can get at Walmart, has been noted to leave an odor in clothes that is not pleasant. And has cause some sinus problems for some people. Don't know about the EU version.

My daughter was using it for her whites and sheets and her BF could not breathe at night and she said her whites did not smell good. I had some of the same problems myself with it. However you may have different results.

rpsinfoman - It is your opinion that Oxiclean has no value. Too others it may be a good product. Let's remember sodium percarbonate when added to water turns into sodium carbonate + H2O2 (which is a very weak bleaching agent). This is a physical action that we cannot stop. You wind up with sodium carb whether you want to or not. So those who like the "pure" product should certainly use that. It is a good buy for those who have to do a lot of laundry. But for people who have to do only a little laundry, Oxiclean may be a better buy for them.

Sin, thank you, you put my thoughts in words..I knew I was missing a key fact..I should have stated all along that yes pure sodium percarbonate is a weak bleaching agent, compared to a product with a activated bleaching system, (Tide, Persil) but I never advised it in place of a oneshot product, I advised it in place of oxiclean, with all the added washing soda. And quite a few times I elaborated about all the washing soda in oxiclean and the dangers to fabrics with overload of the product.

I've also stated in the past that pure sodium percarbonate requires HOT water to get going, hence the pinky soup pot.

So in conclusion for anyone that misunderstood me, and its easy to do...If you want a percarbonate product that works well and at lower temps you should choose Tide or Persil, if however you choose to use pure sodium percarbonate with a different detergent you will only have acceptable results with very hot long washes.

Sin is correct chlorine bleach is the absolute best for whitening, however I choose an alternative product because of the host of problems associated with chlorine. And I choose not to use oxiclean because of all the added washing soda that can be detramental to my fabrics, and unless you are using extremely hot water and long washes will accomplish no good.

I will continue using pure sodium percarbonate, because that along with the Pinky Pot and the Pinky soaks are acceptable for me. Tide /Bleach is my go-to but you know Pink must experiment with different detergents that's when I use SP.

The burning question on everyone mind is probably Will Pink let the dangers of To much washing soda go unspoken now...absolutly NOT. Omg..let me tell you what overdosing on washing soda will do...hahahahaha..sorry folks that's for the next chapter

Sin, Thank You!

beagle - I tried Persil and the smell was horrible. My family has always laughed at me because I have an almost non existent sense of smell but I could smell the Persil for sure. If it didn't have that smell, I think I might use it.

mama - sodium carbonate is washing soda. When sodium percarb is added to a wash cycle, it breaks down to sodium carbonate + H2O2.

mama - let me add to what all I have said. It makes no difference to me if you like the "pure" sodium percarb or another product. You have to do your laundry in a specific way due to your grandchild's asthma. We have to keep that in mind. What works for you might not even be necessary for others. However, it has been great that you have shared how you deal with that issue. It may very well be helpful to someone else in the same position.

Maylingsmom, remember although sodium percarbonate does break down into washing soda..it breaks down into much less than oxiclean with its 50% or better added washing soda...also although pure sodium percarbonate is a weak bleaching agent its no weaker than the percarbonate in oxiclean.

I agree with some posts above about walmarts Persil, I love the scent in the bottle, but I think somethings changed about it since it first was introduced at walmart.

May, how about we mend fences so to speak? I can't shake your hand my arm doesn't reach that far lol, but if you tell me what laundry product you would like to try I'd be glad to send you some if I can, I'm making a attempt of friendship here, what do you say May?

I'm always open to learning something new. I never even heard of sodium percarbonate until I read about it here. But I have to tell you, deficient as some may find it Oyx Clean in the cold prewash of my FL, followed by a hot wash does a great job. Take a look, please.

My DH lost a good deal of his eyesight a few years back. So spills are pretty routine around here. I was brewing a cone of dark roast coffee in my drip pot. He accidentally hit it while going for something else. This was the result. The dark stuff is fine coffee grounds. He got undressed in the laundry room as this was running all over. Then I forgot about it for 3 days. -- though I know mamapinky would have had it sorted within the hour!!

Wow, rococo! I never knew there was another hub like mine. I have teased him that I need to buy one of those bibs from Red Lobster for him because of all the coffee spills on his dress shirts ;). Anyway, I do like Oxi to soak something stained and it works for me. I bought some Zout and loved it the first few times I used it because it really seemed to remove the coffee stains but then it seemed like it just stopped.

mama - I have never had a problem with you as a person - absolutely never. We all have strengths and weaknesses and sometimes those strengths and weaknesses may rub someone else the wrong way. Let's just move on.

@malingsmon - It is my opinion their are far better one shot activated products at the same price point when comparing the cost of the Oxi as a stand alone product that do a better job at lower temperatures. Sodium Carbonate and Borax break to a weak bleach also which is very cost effective. I think it's been firmly established unless an activator is present, which it's not in Oxi Clean, that conversion and breakdown doesn,t occur very rapidly unless their is substantial heat. And even so it still remains a weak agent! In warm or cool water it's color safe because it simply not activating. Most of the cleaning is from the Sodium Carbonate and Ethylated Alcohol. So IMHO you have a builder and a surfactant at low temps. It's worthwhile if you have an onboard heater capable of providing the heat and accelerate the process. Cutting through all the marketing fluff you are better off purchasing an activated product for use at all temperatures. That is the most economical choice in my opinion.

Glad you brought up Borax. That is a product that I have used for years. It had dropped off the grocery store shelves here for a very long time so was buying it in another town 30 miles away due to how I felt it really helped my laundry. It seems others are also finding that out as well and has thankfully returned to the grocery shelves.

I too use it in one of my cocktails for whites. It's particular effective as an additive to Sears Ultra Plus powder. My perfect mix seems to be the Ultra Plus, borax, and a shot of ALL original stain lifter and of course a 5 minute Chlorine bleach at the end of a heated wash. Goods come out clean, fresh, white, and soft without the use of Softener. The ALL blends particularly well with the other ingriedents for whatever unknown reason, but it's my fave formula.

@ MamaPinky....That anyone could send you an email, about making no one believe you is mind boggling and boils my blood. How dare they do such a thing. I do not know who it is, but Shame on you!! Mama....if we find them, we will ALL cut them. LOL Seriously, BE NICE people!!! :)

I think there is enough evidence that sodium percarbonate has benefits, that is why I ordered it! Yes, Mama recommended it and sang it's praises, and that might have played a role in me ordering it...but I'm a big boy & I made my own educated decision to try it. MamaPinky also carries boiling pots of water across her kitchen into her laundry room to add it to her FULLY automatic 2015 washer, LMAO,.....I'm not going to do that, but she likes that!! ;)

This forum is amazing, and as cheesy as this sounds I feel like I made like a dozen or so new, true friends. I am grateful and appreciative of (almost ;) all of you!!!

-Larsi

Like a breath of fresh air comes MamaPinky
To enhance the mystic lore of laundry
Wielding hot pot like a scepter
Striking fear in what's to conquer
All stains vanquished in her Speed Queeny

:-)

Due to lower temperatures as a result of ATC, I definitely reach for a product with bleach activator. The only two laundry additives in the US with bleach activator built in (that I'm able to find on the shelves) are Tide Multi-Purpose Oxi Stain Remover and Tide Boost. Combined with STPP, I'm able to remove most stains.

NOBS (nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate) is Procter & Gamble's patented bleach activator able to work at much lower temperature range compared to TAED (tetraacetylethylenediamine) that's predominantly used in Europe. However, with Persil (Walmart Persil) now launched in the US, I'm thinking Henkel's TAED is now able to work at lower temperatures in order to compete in North America against P&G.

ArliVie, wow you wrote a song/poem about me..Thank You. I'm flabbergasted, that's so nice, cute, silly all rolled into one..and it will be sure to get printed out and hung in my laundry room. Awww, Thank you.