I remember your house! I like the angled island. I don't think I've ever typed that and I don't think I'll ever again, but I think it's a good solution. However, don't expect six people to comfortably sit there. I think one section per kiddo will be just about right.

To make sure I understand things right:

• The existing dining room is becoming the nook and the existing is becoming the dining room, correct?
• What is the nook to be used for? Will this be the new office?
• Is the new dining room really 11'1" wide? Am I reading that right?
• In the angled island version, is that really only 3' from island to corner? Will there really be a corner there or is it actually open to the existing family room?
• Same with the straight island version, is the nook really walled off like that or is that all actually open to the existing family room?

All this matters to give you proper advice.

Here's the previous thread:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2898957/need-help-with-layout-for-kitchen-remodel

Thank you for finding that thread benjesbride. I searched for it earlier and it didn't come up for me! I definitely don't expect 6 people to sit there, though each bubble is the minimum recommended 24". It's rare that we all sit at the island to eat together. DH just works a lot of strange hours (he's an orchestra conductor and a cellist and has a lot of evening concerts) so I am often just feeding the kids.

Answers to funkycamper's questions:

• The existing dining room is becoming the nook and the existing office is becoming the dining room, correct? - Yes
• What is the nook to be used for? Will this be the new office? - Yes, kids will do homework at the desk area. The iMac will probably sit there.
  
• Is the new dining room really 11'1" wide? Am I reading that right? - Yes that is correct
  
• In the angled island version, is that really only 3' from island to
  corner? Will there really be a corner there or is it actually open to
  the existing family room? - That is actually open to the existing family room. The line on the floor in the AutoCAD groundplan is to show where the existing stone flooring ends. The family room is actually sunken down one step and there is a 4' wide strip of stone flooring that is at the same height as the kitchen. We are trying to decide how to deal with the flooring transition so the GC wanted me to see where the flooring actually ends.
• Same with the straight island version, is the nook really walled off
  like that or is that all actually open to the existing family room? - The nook will actually be open to the family room . Sorry, I didn't really draw that well in the Ikea planner.
• The photo above shows the wall and doorway to be removed.

is the 'office' the same as the 'den' (which is the same as the 'nook)?

it's a bit jumbled for me...

but if I'm seeing it correctly (?) and the office will become the DR, I'd make the old DR part of the new kitchen (not just a nook). They don't look like big rooms and little kids grow bigger quickly. They'll take up more space and have friends over. Whether they're sitting at the counter, on a DR chair and helping to prep, they'll take up more space. Think about it as if you'll have at least 5 adults milling around the kit, DR and FR.

I remember 1 yr or so when my kids were in the 7-12 range when we had a neighbor girl eat supper with us about 3 nights a week.

Oh, too bad that family room is down a step so you have to worry about tripping. The whole project would be so much simpler if you had even floors. I'll try to read your other thread and offer suggestions, if I have any, tomorrow.

Thanks funkycamper. The step down isn't my favorite part of the house but we've gotten used to it.

desertsteph - Sorry for the confusion. Den and office were being used interchangeably. That space is currently basically wasted for us. The computer cabinet is in here and there is a TV perched on the existing desk/counter area, but the long counter has become a dumping ground. There is also a coat cabinet that will move to the laundry room. This wall is shown in the photos on the other thread.

If we move the pantry cabinets and small desk to the wall of the former dining room, that effectively makes it part of the kitchen. The kitchen would then be 22' long by 11' wide. The dining area would be 18' x 11'. The kitchen/dining area in our last house was smaller than even one of those spaces, so it seems pretty expansive by comparison!

This is what the pantry wall would look like. Our contractor, who is also a custom home builder, suggested the 5' width of pantry cabinet. Not sure if that's excessive, but we had a remote pantry that wide in the basement in our last house and the shelves were often full! In the photo below, it's about 6' from the end of the fridge to the pantry. The opening to the right is into the existing family room. The step down is 4' away from the opening so I don't think it would be an issue.

Have you and your GC talked about building the sunken FR floor up so that it's level with the rest of the floor? That shouldn't be difficult or costly to do, especially if you tackle it as a DIY, and you should be able to remove and re-install the existing carpeting. That would eliminate the concern about dealing with the transition plus it would update your home's look.

I vote for a straight island. It will give you longer stretches of counter to work on, plus better storage. You could curve the seating overhang to give the island visual interest. That would also eliminate the "sitting in a row at a lunch counter" feel.

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This island has a much wider curve, adding more visual interest, but the working side of it is straight. Kind of the best of both worlds.

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Since it looks like you don't plan to add a table to the nook, you could lengthen the island and add a seat at the end. As long as you have at least 60" between island and nook desk, you'll be fine. Ditto for the aisle between DR table and island overhang.

Do you need a desk to be a desk at all times or just sometimes? If the latter, what about a flip-down or fold away desk area? That might allow for more pantry storage, plus you'd be able to hide desk mess when company's over.

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lisa_a we haven't had a conversation about raising the family room floor. It might not seem costly as first glance but we would also have to replace a 16' wide section of patio doors and it would create a step down to the deck from there. Those doors are $$$. I also don't want to reduce the height of the doors because the view is pretty much the reason we bought the house!

Darn it, I hit submit too fast. Thank you for the feedback on the island issue. If we left the pantry/desk area in the location it is drawn on the floor plan with the angled island then we would put a small table in the book area, I think.

i like the increased storage in the straight island but since it's 6 cabinets vs 3 I know it's going to be more expensive.

I like Lisa's idea about the island and raising the floor (and for a flip-down desk). I'd gladly pay for a few more cabinets to get better function.

I can see why you wouldn't want the whole floor raised as those windows are gorgeous. I wouldn't want to shorten them either. Could you just raise part of the floor so you have more distance from the island seating so you wouldn't have to worry about someone getting off a chair and forgetting there is a step there and falling? While the openness of the space probably means the step down is quite visible, I think when you have seating with backs to that step down, it makes it a bit more dangerous for falls. Or even someone pushing back their chair not realizing how close they are to the edge and tipping over. I probably haven't placed it right and it might be sized wrong but something like raising just the red triangle area?

I think that my drawing is deceiving. There really won't be any concern about someone backing off the raised edge. the red area from the lower end of the fireplace over to the left IS at the same height as the kitchen already. The red line on the drawing below shows the step down location in relation to the proposed angled island:

Aha! The 3' notation behind the counter seating is the distance to the change in flooring (the stone) and not a change in floor height.

Your view is GORGEOUS! I'm so glad you shared that. It helps put your space in context.

Gorgeous view! I would want to keep the doors as is, too. Now that you've shown where the step down is more clearly, I can see that it's not a big an issue as I first thought.

Not to spend your money but ... ;-) I agree with Funky; I'd much rather pay a little more for additional cabs for the island to gain more storage and more counter space - lots of room for art projects and baking with your kids - and scrimp somewhere else. For instance, you could shop for pendants at Habitat ReStore, Goodwill and similar stores and update them with spray paint. You could upgrade them at a later date. That's not so easily or cheaply done when it comes to cabs and counters.

Are you planning on new appliances, too? If so, another place to scrimp would be to keep the existing DW and fridge, replacing them when they croak or are close to croaking.

Wait. You're losing the powder room at the family entrance? I'd want that 'back hall' area larger. If you have a DR, why the 'nook'? Can't it be part of the kitchen? (Have I missed a supporting wall here?)

Oh, thanks for the drawing of where the step-down is. That's MUCH different than I was thinking, isn't it? So now we can talk about your kitchen and not worry about people falling anymore, lol.

Here is clearance recommended behind seating:

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For back to back seating (island seating and dining room seating), it is recommended that you have 60" clearance from island to table.

Your dining room is 11'1", so 133". And it looks like that island's overhang actually takes away about a foot of that so now you're back down to 121". If the table is only 36" from the far wall to allow for sliding passed, that only leaves you 85". Which only leaves you about a 25" wide table. You could probably push it to a 30" wide table and still have squeeze past room if someone is sitting at the dining room table and someone else is sitting at the island. I just don't see how this will work comfortably. If my math or reasoning is off, I hope someone corrects me.

It looks like the straight island below encroaches into the DR less. Is that accurate? If so, there will be better clearance for stools and dining chairs with this plan.

ETA: chisue asked good questions. Why lose the powder room? And why not include the nook in the kitchen proper? Studying can be done at the island for supervision, right? So why a desk?

So, I laid out the dining room table on the floor in the new dining area with painter's tape and brought in the chairs. There is NO way the angled island would work at those dimensions. It left like 36" between the dining chair backs and the counter chair backs. Because that is the traffic path from the garage it was just going to be too crowded, and I don't think our table is that large - 42" x 78". DH was pretty married to the idea of the angled island but even he acquiesced when he saw it laid out IRL.

The GC came over a bit ago to show us door samples and talk about which cabinets go where. As soon as he walked in and I showed him the crowding, he realized we were on the wrong track and we took a closer look at the plan I drew up in the Ikea home planner for the straight island. We are going to go with the straight island and add some overhang to the right side of the island for an extra seat (thanks for that suggestion lisa_a!) We didn't discuss the gentle curve idea because I was overwhelmed and forgot, but we can visit that when we go look at slabs.

I had a ton of questions for him about the cabinet maker he uses and I'm impressed. I hope I'm as impressed by the price, but he uses them for all of his custom homes and he's confident they will be within our budget. He brought a drawer sample and they are nice dovetailed drawers and they use good quality full extension slides. The boxes are frameless and they do completely custom sizes. The doors will be 5 piece, paint grade poplar rails with MDF panels. We are going with white painted Shaker doors with a slight bevel detail:

Almost all the lowers will be drawers, except the center cabinet in the island, which will have doors and pull outs to store my big breadmaker, rice cooker and a few other things that need more height.

I have the feeling that DH and I will have a hard time finding a granite that we both agree on that is in our price range, but we've got some time to hash that out.

We are definitely keeping the teeny fridge until we can afford what we want. The DW is a hunk of crap, so I'm reluctant to hang on to it, but I will if I need to. We have to buy a range because we currently have an electric cook top. I'll be shopping Overstock and the like for a sink. I actually work in theatrical lighting and we do some architectural work so I have access to decent pricing on lighting.

Sorry funkycamper, i was writing while you last posted. You did the same math I did at the same time and came to the same conclusion! I should have done it sooner, frankly!

The desk will have the iMac on it.

Ah, the powder room question. This house has FIVE bathrooms and that powder room is absurdly small. DH jokes that he would have to stand in the hall to pee, and he's probably right. It's 29" x 64". It has a broken pocket door right now so it's not even usable. We've lived here for 5 months and it has never been used. We need mudroom space more than a 5th toilet, I think, but maybe I'm making a mistake. The wall with the range on it that separates the laundry/mud room from the kitchen can not move because the 2 breaker boxes for the house are on that wall. We talked about bumping out into the garage a bit for more space, but we are getting out of our price range if we do that.

I just remembered a similar kitchen from House Tweaking (blog):

http://www.housetweaking.com/2014/07/10/the-kitchen/

I just read your previous comment. 5 bathrooms?! No way. I'd get rid of that mini powder room too.

Thank you benjesbride! That photo is a great visual! I will show this to DH tonight and see what he thinks It would mean moving some electrical, but the plumbing would stay in basically the same location.

If you click on the link you'll see more angles and their before and after. They combined kitchen and dining like you.

I have never been on this site before, but am researching fixing my own disaster of a kitchen---and a big part of that disaster is the island shaped like the one in your first picture! Then I looked closer and, if you reverse the range and sink, your proposal is my awful, awful layout... I'm sorry :( That original layout would leave you doing all prep work by yourself in one of two corners: the one between the sink and stove, or the cut-away corner in the island. You can fit another person by the island, but to get there, you have to carry all the washed vegetables fours steps to the island, then four more steps for the cut veggies to the range. My pantry is nine steps away from island, twelve from the range. I walk and walk and walk.

The fridge by the dinning room makes sense, and the dishwasher in the corner makes sense if that's where you keep the dishes, AND if you are moving the range to under the window. If you move the range to the island, would you get views while cooking? It looks like some of your really great commentors are incorporating the nook. Unless you have any reason for not treating it as one space, that makes sense to me. We have a desk area too, and it just becomes piled up with stuff. For my family, a bigger island makes more sense than the desk we have, but a flip-down grown-up desk for bills would be nicer than our double-duty beer bar (Wisconsin!)

I had an Ikea kitchen once, and loved it.

It's all good dixiekayp! That's why I posted looking for feedback. I'm relieved to hear that it was a crummy idea NOW, rather than after cabinets were installed and peeved that the guy who is supposed to be a whole home planner (not my GC) even recommended it in the first place. We've decided to incorporate the nook as part of the whole kitchen as suggested above, though I haven't yet gotten DH to buy into switching the fridge back to the current range wall and moving the range over between the windows. We'll see!

I have an overly curious 3 year old and am planning a gas range, so putting it in the island is not a possibility. I have a good friend who moved into a house with a gas cooktop on the peninsula and her son set fire to an empty macaroni and cheese box while she had her back turned to grab something out of the fridge! As it is I'm going to have to remove the knobs from the range. In our current set up the control panel for the wall oven is right at his height and it's been a problem. That's why the microwave is going in the bottom half of a wall cabinet. I'm also shopping for one with a control lock!

I really like benjesbride's plan. (I should copyright that, I say that a lot, lol) It is so much more functional and provides for more safety for cooking with your kids around. I hope she's right that this gives you closer to 13 feet to that dining room wall from the island so you'll have better space between the two seating areas.

Re the 5th bathroom. Ugh! I can't imagine cleaning 4, much less 5. Are any of your other bathrooms located close to the outside. I've only lived in one home without a bathroom that was near an outside door. I didn't like it as when we were doing outside yard work, kids were playing outside in the dirt, and such, everybody tracked dirt throughout the house to get to the toilet. Even when we tried to wipe our feet carefully, dirt on clothes would still fall on the floors. Because of that, I would never want a home without a bathroom near an outside entry point. Unless another of your 4 bathrooms can serve that purpose, I'd consider keeping that 5th toilet.

IME (as well as general consensus), the counter between sink and range or cook top is the most used/hardest working section of counter in a kitchen. I think you should aim for a wider stretch of counter between sink and range, regardless of whether the range is on the back wall, as in benjesbride's plan or along the laundry room as shown in your plan.

One way to achieve this with the range on the back wall is to move the sink towards the fridge wall, either by opting for a corner sink cab or moving the sink to the fridge wall. The downside is that you'd lose some upper cab storage but moving a sink out from under a window is definitely doable.

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This would require moving plumbing in addition to electrical so that's definitely a downside.

If your shared kitchen/LR wall weren't as long as it is - IOW, if it was
the same dimension as the blog kitchen shown above - that would be a
different matter. But you have a longer stretch of wall. Take it from
someone who had nearly 7' of counter to the left of the sink but only
16" of counter on each side of the cook top: don't skimp on counter
space in your work zones.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the fridge on the back wall, as shown in your plan, but I'm biased: that lay-out is MOL my lay-out in my just finished remodel (reveal coming soon). We didn't move the fridge, only the cook top (from small island to perimeter) so we've lived with the fridge in its location for 21 yrs and it's never been a problem for us. When I was working on my lay-out, several GWers tried to talk me into moving it to the other end of my kitchen for the reasons benjesbride stated. We didn't listen. =) No regrets either.

I found you again! Now, I'll try to write up my late-to-the-party ideas before one of my three kids or husband interrupts. Ha! Like that could happen! My three kids are 6, 12, 15--I see your kitchen's future, and maybe your future kitchen.

Lisa-a is right about your workspace, and she finds beautiful pictures ! The workspace is cramped. So...there will be a cost, but no safety issues in moving your sink and DW to the island. This gives you:

1) Sightlines greater than 36" and the ability to look a kid sitting at the island without turning away from prep/cook. I had this in my old house, I do not have this in my current house, and flashes of eye contact are HUGE. That multi-task business of answering without looking, OR stop, turn, talk, repeat, repeat ,repeat doesn't work for either party. Also, when you are doing your last clean-up and your husband comes home late, you can talk and finish up-- not talk, then finish when he goes to bed. Finally, you won't see your tired reflection in your black window at night, and in the morning you may see your mountain view.

2) expandable prep space. That busy spot Lisa-a writes about cannot be expanded if fenced in by your sink and range. With the sink in the island, workflow is 1-fridge food to counter right of sink, 2-washed in huge sink, 3-prepped left of sink, 4-pivot for range. That area can expand as your kids age and can do more. Even if you move the sink to the corner for more space, you will all be running into each other as you need the sink or range. It is not fun. It is grumpy.

3) defined baking prep area on back counter next to range, and room for Kitchenaid in the corner. Again, that is one more person who can help, or be learning how to help, but is not bumping into other people. The dry goods aren't getting wet on the wet counter...kids learn how to cook neatly and efficiently very slowly.

4) Little one gets the space by the window for play, but doesn't have to walk past the range to get to your main prep area. You can turn-and-block-and-talk in the area between the sink and range. You can even put down tape for a "danger" zone for another year or so, and he will be very proud of himself when he pulls it up.

5) the waterline for a pot-filler is already in place.

I do not think I typed a single sentence without an interruption--mostly Lego vehicle race problems, but very loud IB Econ paper problems. I even lost everything one time. Thats why I never spend time online (but that awful first island !!!). Try to design for your next 15 years, which will be the heaviest cooking years of you life. Try to not spend them with your back toward your family.

if I get time, I'll tell you about my sister's focal point range, impossibly cheap gorgeous stuff to upgrade later, and where to move your pantry...but that paper on scarcity awaits.

Sorry, didn't mean to abandon you all. I'm still catching up from the Labor Day weekend chaos. My kids had a 4 day weekend and by the time they went back to school Tuesday the laundry monster needed to be tamed in a big way.

funkycamper - I will give some serious thought to the powder room issue before we commit. It's the only bathroom near the garage entrance for sure. There are 2 more full bathrooms on the main floor, one in the hall off the other side of the family room and one in our master. Since we didn't have a powder room at all in our old house we haven't missed using this one but your point about dirt tracking through isn't lost on me. We really need a drop zone for the coats, backpacks and shoes, though.

lisa_a - I agree with you about the space between the range and the sink being heavily used. As it stands now, I have 16" beside the range before the counter turns the corner. You can see it in the photo above. It's teeny, but actually more space than I had in my old house, believe it or not! The proposed layout has 42" to the right of the range and I can sneak it a little further out if I don't keep the lower cabinets symmetrical on either side of the range. DH is not crazy about moving the range between the windows and I am not willing to have the sink face a wall. The sink in my old house faced a wall and I hated.it.with.a.passion. We tiled a pretty mosaic with travertine and glass tile to give me something nice to look at, but really, i just hated it. I know lots of people say you don't spend much time at the sink because of the dishwasher, but I seem to spend an inordinate amount of time there because I wash most of our plastic items and all pots and pans by hand.

dixiekayp - I will give some consideration to the idea of the sink and DW in the island. As a rule, I'm not a fan of island sinks because I tend to like the uninterrupted flat surface for things like baking with the kids and especially for holidays when we tend to serve buffet style with DH's very informal family. The view out my front window is of a weeping Birch tree, which is very pretty. Out the back sliders, the mountain view is blocked by a lovely walnut tree. Either way, I can't lose. Thankfully when dh comes home late and I'm still in the kitchen he often rolls up his sleeves to help in the clean up.

We are still waiting for the estimate back from the contractor to see if we've already blown our budget up, but once we see that I'll talk to him about some more tweaks.

Another question that should maybe have it's own thread: pullouts in a wide 24" deep pantry? Are they a necessity?

I assume you eat all your meals in the dining room now, since it's the only eating space you have. What about that does not work for you? I think the island seating is constraining your design options. With the relatively small size of your new dining room, and its proximity to the kitchen (especially when they are open to each other), I think you would be best off maximizing that space to make it functional. Now the dining room sort of seems like an afterthought.

Disclaimer: I don't have an island, nor have I ever lived in a house with an island. We have one table, which serves as dining, desk, and project area!

Ideally, it would be nice to have the fridge closer to the dining room. But realistically, your overall use of space is better with the fridge on the outside wall. I learned with my kitchen that some compromises are well worth it.

I know it's hard to do, but picture life as your kids get older. By the time they were in middle school, my kids did all their homework in their rooms, unless they needed a computer, which was in the family room. In a few short years, the purpose of the nook will change - be sure to plan ahead for future use.

AnnKH - We only eat about half our meals in the dining room now, if that. The kids eat breakfast daily at the bar area pictured above. DH is usually drinking a protein shake on his way to the car to take the kids to school. I don't eat breakfast until after everyone leaves for school and I do sometimes sit at the dining room table. My youngest and I eat lunch at the bar daily. At least 3 nights a week, I feed the kids at the bar while DH is working late. On the other few nights we eat in the dining room.

Our current dining room is 10' 11" x 10' 11". In the new plan it is 13' 6" x 18'. That doesn't seem terribly small to me. Am I missing something? When you say "Now the dining room seems like an afterthought" are you referring to what I currently have or what is proposed? Our current dining room is fine for our family of 5, but when we have dinner guests its cramped.

You can see the picture of our family room above, which is used primarily for music and entertaining. I have 2 cellists and a violinist in my house, and we have a 7' grand piano so there is really no room in our family room for a computer desk. We had a hutch with our computer in our old family room in our last house and I always felt like it was an eyesore. As far as the desk goes, I plan to use it more than the kids will, honestly. I'd like a spot to meal plan, pay bills, etc.

My youngest is 3, so he won't be in middle school for at least 10 years, at which point we'll probably be remodeling again, lol! I'm going to be supervising homework for a LONG time.

I am certainly not opposed to considering other options, really. We just haven't come up with anything that uses the space better.

When I wrote the workflow for the island sink, was picturing the fridge over by the dining room and the range between the windows. I'm too tired to think it through, but it probably works in reverse. The range would be a better view from your piano, and the windows will work better, but I can't quickly figure out how to describe why.

As for the mud room: Our basement has a "roughed in" bathroom, which I think means all the plumbing is in place. Can your GC preserve a rough in for you, complete with drawings that you could leave for potential buyers if life suddenly changes and that whole resale thing hits you in the head? Or you could "un-rough-in" in 15 years? I desperately need a mud room--boy shoes become HUGE and girl shoes become numerous. I hate my make-shift solutions at all three doors. Nothing works without a mud room, not even the foyer closets because you can't put the wet or snowy things away until they dry off. Grrrr

With seven years of opera studies, I was supposed to live with a baby grand and strings. Instead, I saw One Direction last week!

We could definitely leave the plumbing for the powder room roughed in. That's a great suggestion.

I thought I should perhaps better illustrate my need for a mud room over a 5th toilet. This is the closet in my entryway. Because the house was originally built with in-ceiling electric heat, when the gas furnace was installed to replace it they used the coat closet to run ductwork up to the attic and then to each of the main floor rooms. It is far from ideal! It is currently housing 3 snowboards and the play mat for DS's music therapy

Oh, MY! You do need a mudroom. Could you move that little half-bath into the garage itself? If there are no funds to do it now, maybe just have the plumbing run into the garage and capped off for a bathroom to be created later? Even now, with the kids grown, a bathroom by the garage/back entry saves me a lot of cleaning. In our current home, it's a 3/4 bath so DH returns from mountain biking or heavy/sweaty/dirty yardwork and such, he'll strip off all the dirty clothes and shower there before he even hits the house. I really appreciate the mess being contained and virtually eliminated from the house itself.

I'm back for some more tweaking. The initial bids were a little high so we've had to do some simplification. Right now we are omitting the desk area (which is much maligned here on GW anyway), though we might go back and add it later as a phase 2 sort of thing if we find we miss it. I am also trying to decide if we should keep the cabinet pantry or move to a closet style. Our 5.5' wide cabinet pantry is $1600. I estimate that we spent almost $500 on materials for shelving for our last pantry plus we need to buy doors and trim and there would still be labor from the GC so I'm not sure how much we would end up saving. DH prefers the look of the cabinetry.

I'm also looking at the range wall below trying to decide if it looks too heavy up top with the large wall cabinets. I've been thinking of making the one all the way to the right next to the window just open shelving. Right now in the quote we have a cabinet above the range with a small vent hood but I'm thinking of switching to one similar to the picture. Any thoughts on the shelving and the hood?

Another question cropped up as I was reading over the weekend. Sophie commented on another older post that you always want at least one base cabinet for things that don't fit into drawers. Right now, I have the two 33" banks of drawers flanking the range for spices, cooking utensils and cookware, crock pots. There is a super susan next to that, then the sink cabinet which will have the trash pullout on the left and a small pull out on the right for dishwasher detergent, soap, etc. Next to that is an 18" wide cab which could be drawers or a door, not sure what makes the most sense. The island consists of two 36" wide base cabinets and a 12" deep bookshelf facing the cooktop. I had planned for both of the cabs to be drawers. Top to bottom would be utensils, then cups, mugs and bowls, then plates in the bottom. In the second bank, I would have foil, saran wrap and baggies in the top, lunch box stuff and plastic containers in the middle and I'm undecided on the bottom drawer. The cabinet above the fridge will have dividers for my baking pans and cookie sheets. I've been figuring that anything large enough not to fit in a drawer (like my breadmaker) would store in the pantry. Does that make sense? Also, I would put lesser used dishes like my china in the uppers. We plan to add a hutch to the dining area in another phase.

Lastly, I think we've made a choice for granite. After a couple of frustrating hours looking at slabs and finding no common ground between us we found a great slab of Viscont White at a local yard that we both love and fits the budget! I have to run back there this morning to have them hold it since we were still waiting for bids on Friday when we looked at it. There were 4 very similar slabs so I think we will be ok. The picture is on my phone so I will add it in the next post.

Just bumping this up hoping for some feedback on my previous post above on the closet vs cabinet pantry issue and whether I have too many drawers with only one 18" base can that has a door. Contractor is coming over in a few hours to talk about some details.

what is the door height of cabs to left and right of range hood. You will pay for that......they don't look usual and customary ...... overly cumbersome to use multiple times in a day to retrieve things. I don't like it.......if I wanted height I'd put glass door, smaller, 12 inch high cabs for display above a normal height door. Open shelves? just personal preference. I'd raise up the lower level of the wall cabs to give a taller backsplash, and any other tweak would be with glass fronted cabs in a way you choose-whether on the top, or a set of glass doors. I like both kinds of pantry setups-but where are you proposing either the walkin or pullout. As far as drawers.....just have a variety of stacks in different sizes. See what contractor leans toward and communicate back and think over what he says.

I think it's just the rendering that looks odd. They are 40" tall cabinets, and the bottoms will be 18" from the counter, very standard. I did consider some open shelving and am still thinking making the cabinet on the far right in the rendering above shelving.

The pantry wall can be seen on the groundplan above, though we have decided for now not to do the desk.

I'm surprised there isn't a bigger difference in price between built-in pantry and pantry cabinets. I guess I'm stumped trying to figure out what you spent $500 for shelving. Was it a huge pantry? Elfa? We've just always nailed molding to the walls and laid plywood on it. The plywood can be faced with molding. And then a couple of coats of paint. Just a thought to consider.

Glad you're not doing the desk. At least for now. I have a feeling you'll find you don't need it.

Personally, I would do drawers and put anything larger that doesn't fit in the pantry. Drawers are just too cool, so much more accessible, and store more. Would those items possibly fit in the Super Susan as another option? If you haven't done it yet, group together the items that you intend to store together and measure them. This will give you an idea of the height drawers you need.

I like the idea of the SS hood and open shelves along that wall. But it also depends on what you intend to store there. Whatever you store there should be things you use regularly so they don't collect dust and grime. Of course, a few pretties that are just for display and that you don't mind washing periodically would be great, too, mixed in with the used regularly stuff.

If that wall ended where your stove is, it would be like one of our walls. Well, really, we started out with a fridge where your stove is but then moved the fridge. The wall cabinets came within about 2" from the window molding. We kept looking at it and thought how the cabinets seemed to crowd the window. When we took the wall cabinets down, the difference was amazing. Even my DH who rarely notices such things was impressed with how much better it looked without cabinets. We have installed 5" deep floating shelves on that wall which sit back about a foot from the window molding. Sooooo much better. I made it into an open glass jar pantry with beans, various dried peas, lentils, flours and other baking items in the jars. The light and view really show off better without the cabinets so close. Love it.

herbflavor's suggest might be a good option as well.

Love the slab!

Love the slab!

Cuisinarts and Kitchenaids are heavier than bread machines, and keeping all big things at waist-height in the pantry would be easier than in a lower cabinet (where mine are).

Shelves are soooo current and tres retro too. But don't think it will look open with some shelves, some uppers and a hood--I think it will look choppy, and forced. And shelves by the range with oil and steam? Your jars of grains and stuff will needs scouring , not dusting.

That at said, I think it would look best and most modern to just have shelves, no uppers on that wall. It would be cheaper too, in dollars, but hugely expensive in time spent cleaning. And it will only give the modern vibe if everyone is on board with what goes there, and for a family of five, that might be a deal-breaker; the retro shelves are wonderfully mis-matched, the modern ones are not. Just because it is wildly impractical, does not make it bad... for a while. Just do glass and ceramic only, no wood, paper, plastic, because cooking will ruin them. Then when the styles change again, or you chose function over form, you add uppers. But herbflavor's glass doors make more sense.

I am thinking of pulling down my upper that is between two windows and far from my range. Could you do shelves where the desk was to have gone? That space could also be primed with magnetic primer and painted with chalkboard paint.

As for the pantry, big, clean and pure white interior. Some day I will have one big enough for coolers. Can you build the look You and DH like, and spec it so IKEA stuff fits inside? Or Elfa at 30% off?

Are your range and fridge spots locked in?

I don't have a base cabinet in my kitchen - it's all drawers. Funky is right - you need to assign what goes where, and decide what kind of storage YOU need.

I have 42" uppers, with an extra shelf in most of them. I love being able to store things without stacking! You can't do that with stacked uppers.

dixiekayp, I beg to differ on the grease issue on open shelves near a cooktop. Well, with a caveat. If one gets a good hood that is 6" wider than their cooktop and actually uses it and uses it correctly and consistently, little if any grease will collect. While my jar pantry (jantry?) isn't next to the stove, several other things are on a temporary small shelf next to my stove. They've been there since Spring. I have NEVER had to wash grease off of them.

I do think things like plates, bowls, mugs and glasses that you eat from are a bit different. I wouldn't want those exposed without being used/washed regularly just because of the dust that can settle on them. I wouldn't want to dust a plate I'm going to eat off of later. Yuck. But jars, bottles, and other containers, no problem.

I read about how to use a hood correctly here and it really does work. Get one with enough CFM's for your size kitchen and type of cooktop, start it a few minutes before you start cooking on the cooktop, on low is usually enough. This gets the air currents flowing. Then leave it on for about 5-10 minutes after cooking to suck anything lingering up. Easy. And no problem if you get a quiet (low sone) hood.

I have read many posts here with people raving about how much cleaner their kitchen stays with a good hood. So get a good hood and use it. Simple.

Ugh, I tried to answer this earlier and lost my post on my iPad. Sorry, the contractor just left so I've been busy this morning.

THANK YOU so much for the feedback and the compliments on the granite. I really think it's going to look great and even better is that DH likes it too. He's pretty much given me free reign on decisions but he really wanted to be part of the granite choice.

herbflavor - glass doors might make much more sense for me, since dusting isn't my favorite. We are looking at the pricing difference and discussing that option.

dixiekayp - The fridge and range spots are pretty locked in at this point. I can't really get enough prep space with the range between the windows unless I move the sink to the blank wall or the island and I'm not crazy about either of those ideas. I think I've decided I'm ok with the uppers along that wall, especially since I really *need* the storage. Shelves where the desk was going to be is a great idea. Thank you for that!

AnnKH - Thank you for the affirmation! I'm embracing the drawers. I still need a little help on sizing them. In the island I was planning to do 6, 12, 12. I'm a little torn on the range wall, though. Should I do 6, 12, 12 or 6, 9, 15? My tallest pot is 10" tall, but my largest frying pan is 12" in diameter so if I want to store things up on end then I need 15" on the bottom. Currently I have a blind base cabinet that ALL of my cookware fits in without stacking, but this drawer base will be a little smaller than that. The thing is, I don't think I need two 15" bottom drawers, but I feel like it would be totally unbalanced to do the stacks on each side of the range differently. I've got to decide this fairly quickly as we are going to place the cabinet order on Monday.

funkycamper - thank you again for all of your really fantastic advice. This forum is such a wealth of knowledge and you guys are all so generous to share the things you've learned!

Oops, I meant to also comment about expense of the closet pantry in our last house. I left it up to DH to construct and he definitely could have spent less. He used vertical tracks screwed into the studs with angle brackets and melamine shelves, which weren't cheap. There were 6 shelves each 9' long.