Root congestion is a limiting factor, and once roots get to the point the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact, the limitation will always be in play until the congestion in the original root mass is corrected. Even planting the tree out in the landscape would not correct the limitations.

Ideally, you would plan a full repot somewhere around Father's Day '16. It would include bare-rooting/change of soil and root pruning, and possibly pruning the canopy back somewhat if the root pruning was severe. You'll be surprised at the rejuvenating effect this has on your tree. The procedures I mentioned are part of the regular care I give all my many ficus (easily over 30), many of which are benjamina in either the species form or cultivar thereof. Pictures if you like?

Al

Al,

I've seen you around these forums and I absolutely understand that you know exactly what you're talking about.

id definitely be a bit nervous when it comes to root pruning. I've just always tried to pot up yearly. My tree looks great and I don't want to do any harm to it. I also don't want to remove any of the canopy as I'm still trying to get it to a desired height and width.

i thought I'd read more about the larger roots being more of the "strangler" type and that the small feeder roots weren't as much of an issue.

As I said, this tree was repotted recently and in that short time have over taken the pot.

Which roots are pruned, where and how many? I'm extremely nervous about that job.

I was also thinking about switching to a terracotta pot as I know they breath a lot more. However, with the root mass, I think a breathing pot and the gritty mix would just dry out too fast and I'd never be able to leave the tree for more than half a day.

any insight from you would always be helpful. I know you know what you're talking about. Pics of what you have to share would also be great

i currently have 8 ficus. 2 are Alii, 1 being the larger Benjamina I posted previously, and 5 of them I started from cuttings. The cuttings were all 2" long with 1 to 2 leaves. I removed them from a hedge at my mothers in south Florida and brought them back home in a water bottle to Vermont. I braided one, made a bush out of others and another is single trunk cutting has grown 2 feet tall and is 1/4" at the base now. At this is only since May of this year! Here they are, Alii's not shown

Beautiful trees, good growing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wouldn't change a thing you are doing. You can repot in Spring and remove about a 1/3 of the bottom roots. You could loosen the smaller roots and put the plant back in the same pot or bump the pot up a bit (not too much.)

Jane

You are in great hands with Al!

I just came on to say, there is also a weight issue. Plan ahead of time how you are going to lift/transport once it is in the gritty. (I have back issues, can you tell? ; > ) Most people on here seem to find it to be not that big of a deal ... but it's good to plan ahead.

dave

Your plant is beautiful, and what a great success with cuttings!

I found this forum few years ago looking for advice about same ficus.It was grown in MG before. I only potted-up, didn't know difference between potting up and re-potting.

I did follow Al's advice about de-potting, major root pruning (after washing off all existing soil with a garden hose) and re-potting into 5-1-1 mix (first time ever I heard of it and used it).

I was terrified to cut any roots. I was sure that it will die. Finally, I just did it and ended up cutting a lot. Here is photo of just some of the roots that got pruned (that big piece is actually end part of trunk-I had to use saw to get it off):

It has never grown better than since that summer of 2012. I never had so many new leaves and branches growing. I had plant for about 14(?) years prior to that day. And I potted it into a plastic pot only 1" bigger than previous (plastic mainly because of weight).

I will re-pot and root prune next year (2016), and I will not pot it into bigger pot (maybe even smaller?). I am in cold Canada, z5a.

I just wanted to share my experience...Rina

Thanks, Need2See and Rina!

I'm of the school that believes we should maintain it properly so it doesn't break and there's never anything serious to fix. Decline in trees is deceptive because it's difficult to measure lost potential, and the first several years of decline probably wouldn't be noticed, which means it's assuredly broke to some degree and you just won't be able to see HOW broke until its fixed, assuming you can set aside the first time jitters. ;-)

Come early summer '16, I'd like to see you go for a full repot, a root pruning, and a change of soil because over a span of more than a score of years at it, trees have taught me that's what they prefer. We tend to think of the age
of plants in the same manner we think of age of age in humans or animals, chronologically.
We, like plants, go through several life stages - embryonic, juvenile,
adolescent (intermediate in plants), and mature, are human stages roughly
mirrored in plants. Where we vary greatly is in the way our cells age. In
animals, body cells all mature at approximately the same speed. Plants grow by
consecutive divisions of cells at the growing points (meristems), so their
various parts are different ages (the top of the plant, or the ends of branches
and stems are younger than the basal (lowest part, just above roots) portions, chronologically,
but there is another way of aging plants.

The ontogenetic age of
plants is related to how many times a cell has to divide to make that
particular portion of tissue. Basically, the closer the tissue is to the roots
the younger it is ontogenetically, even though chronologically, it is
the oldest.

Why is this important &
how does it apply to our conversation? REJUVENATION. Since the tissues at the roots to shoots transition are the youngest (ontogenetically) when you prune plants back closer to this transition zone, you are pruning back to more JUVENILE tissue, which is precisely where the term REJUVENATION PRUNING comes from. You don't need the big clunky roots to take up space in the pot that could be filled with the fine workhorse roots responsible for the plant's wellbeing, except as plumbing. So cut them off. I do it to all my ficus every 2nd or 3rd year, depending on how far along they are in their training. Don't let anyone convince you that the methods I share should only be used for bonsai. Those methods are the reason bonsai trees live in perfect health for generations, and most hobby growers have difficulty keeping a plant happy for a few years.

It's your call though - no arm-twisting here. I'm pretty confident in my ability to put you on a path that leads you to a place where you can keep your trees in great health over the very long term, but in the end, it's you that has to decide whether your assessment of the risk warrants the trepidation.

Al

Al,

thank you so much for all that info. While I said root pruning made me nervous, everything you've said makes perfect sense.

I do not know the age of my tree, but I'm guessing it was made from air layered whips that were already a few feet long.

ive only had the larger one in the picture since February, however, it's 4 times larger than when I got it. These things grow incredibly fast.

my goal would be to get it to about 8' tall and very full. At that point I would want to keep it around that height.

In the near future, I'll probably move to south Florida and bring it with me. I'd keep it outdoor year round, but obviously still in a container. I know how damaging these roots can be.

While I went into it knowing how to correctly water, feed, light requirements, pests, etc. I wish I'd known about the gritty mix back then.

Do you have any root pruning photos or videos that are specifically for benjaminas that you could link me to?

I'd like to move the tree up to an 18" pot next spring. What are your thoughts on terracotta? With the gritty mix and the fact that I let my tree live in full direct sun during the summer, would that just dry out way too fast?

smaller ficus that I have in terracotta pots with a soil mix of about 60% MG and 40% perlite are absolutely bone dry everyday. They need extremely constant watering. And yes, I water till about 15% comes out of the drain.

I want to keep the tree forever and care for it the right way.

Lastly, all the large indoor ficus that I've seen in malls, airports, etc, I'm fairly certain they're not being up rooted and pruned from their under the floor soil containers. So, how do they always end up looking so good and healthy? I'm taking about 10'-20' indoor trees.

again, thank you so much for all of the info and for taking time out of your day to help. Much appreciated.

Lastly,

what are your thoughts of keeping the tree outside in the summer and indoor in the winter?

Obviously it must be acclimated each time. When indoors, I have 6 100w cfl bulbs overhead. Some are 5000k and most are 6500k. What are your thoughts on the correct color temp for these?

i like the outdoor grown dense foliage much better. Shorter internodes, better ramification. On top of that, I like the darker color of the leaves. They are smaller, thicker and much shinier.

Lastly, the new leaves turn a deep reddish color before maturing which adds a beautiful color contrast.

You can look at this thread on Ficus by Al. It has a lot of details with photos. Also Jerry Meislik's site is quite inspirational too. Ficus handle major root pruning very well.

The mall plants are professionally grown and moved to the malls. They eventually suffer there and they just replace it with another one. The old one is taken back to the greenhouse to recuperate for a year or two. And the cycle continues. Same is done to office plants in companies who can afford that service.

I do what you suggested - outdoors in bright light in summer and indoor under lights in winter. CFL's are good for smaller plants. The light penetration is not that good. May be 12-18 inches depending on foliage. You could possibly experiment with multiple CFLs at different heights to cover the plant so to speak for large plants. I defoliate it a bit to improve light penetration and air movement. They will slow down in winter which is good in a way. And etoliation is not a big problem with benjamina unless it is too dark. You have to look out for mites and woolly aphids. Around 50% humidity and good air flow keeps them happy and clean.

Thanks for that great info too!

as far as indoor light, it'll be in front of a large south facing window, rotated 1/4 turns weekly. The cfls will be about 10"-12" from the leaves. Some overhead pointed directly downward, and some more at a side angle. All have reflective housings aiming the light in the right direction. i had also planned on thinning out a good amount of the interior growth to help light penetrate. It'll all come back next summer when it's outside anyway.

What daily light cycles are recommended during winter? I was thinking 12 on, 12 off because closer to the equator, that's the amount of light plants get year round.

As far as pests, I have neem oil and spinosad ready to be used if need be. I will also have a humidifier near by and will also mist the leaves daily (not sure that'll even do much).

Should I expect to see any winter growth with the added light, or will the tree cease completely for a couple months?

As for the mall and office trees, I'd heard that before. I was at and airport recently, and it really seems like the few 20' ficus they have had been there for years. It's the same looking tree I'd seen many times, and besides the interior, they didn't appear to be pruned back on the outside.

I will also check out those links.

I plan on keeping the trees I have and not ever replacing them. I know ficus are a dime a dozen, but mine now hold sentimental value. I want to know I grew the tree and not someone else.

thanks to all of you!

If you all don't mind, so I don't have to start a whole new thread, quickly (and I know it's off topic), but, can ficus Alii handle full direct sun? I started a couple clippings in water and moved to soil. They have emerging buds and was wondering if direct sun would work. I'd like to help them get off their feet a little faster. Currently, they're outside, but do not receive direct sunlight at all. Just natural ambient light from the sky.

thw cuttings were taken from an indoor grown tree that doesn't receive much light (not my tree, I was given them when it was pruned and wanted to try alii since I didn't have any).

sorry I have so many questions. I'm learning a lot.

Here is a Ficus benjamina var "Too Little" growing in a bulb pan - gritty mix.

A look at how healthy toe root system is - note how many fine roots there are:

Taking the roots down even more:

and, still more

Here is the plant after reducing the canopy a suitable amount relative to the severity of the root work.

Same plant below - 2 years later (this spring)

Same plant today in a bonsai pot ready to start training. I didn't take pictures, but I substantially reduced the heavy roots at the bottom of the bole so the plant would fit into a pot with more appropriate depth. Next repotting will be into a pot about half as deep as the one it's in now. It needs pruning and thinning again - especially at the top.

This is a plant that has undergone some inosculation. Picture taken last summer a week after totally defoliating it.

For many years, I had no clue what to do with it because it looked like this:

Here it is after taking it out of the basement this spring/summer:

And how it looked after defoliating it entirely again:

After pruning and a little wiring of the branches into positions that will eventually compliment the composition:

and it's now on a grow bench putting on weight & waiting to be pruned again before I take it in for the winter.

Any questions about how well this tree tolerates manipulation?

In most cases, trees in Malls at grade level are very often in raised bed situations where their roots have access to the soil below the mall floor. Often too, they are in large containers set inside of planters so they can be changed easily. Most of those who care for plants in commercial settings are working for someone whose focus is $, not the well-being of the plant. If it's less expensive to devote fewer man hours to the plant's care resulting in decline, that's the right road for the businessman. In many cases, the idea of optimal care for 'professional plant care givers' is pivotal on factors that reduce the amount of care a plant requires rather than eliminating limitations. I've had a good number of 'go rounds' with that type of mind set. The most obvious place to save money is by extending the intervals between waterings. Most of us understand that building extended watering intervals into a soil is counter-productive from the perspective of optimizing vitality. Why fight the soil for control of the plant's health when you don't have to?

All my plants are outdoors ASAP in the late spring and indoors under 6100K lights in winter. The blue end of the spectrum favors foliage plants. There is nothing sophisticated about my shop light set-up, but it gets the plants through the winter in fair shape on a 16/8 timer. I do have to prune off all the lanky growth that occurs over winter come spring, though.

All the cultivars of F binnendijkii (like alii) do well in full sun. In fact, if your plant is reasonably healthy in early summer when you're thinking about moving it outdoors, you can simply move it directly into full sun. The leaves will burn, drop off, and quickly be replaced by a pristine flush of new growth + lots of additional back-budding.

Dinner time.

Al

Wow. I had no clue they could take so much abuse. You're making me a bit less worried now.

I'll start with some lighter root pruning next spring to get the hang of it. And then after I start figuring out what needs to stay and what needs to go a bit better, then dive a little more into it.

As far as indoor lighting, you're saying you do 16 hours on and 8 hours off during the winter? are the lower light levels made up slightly by longer duration? What do you recommend for my tree? How many hours on per day? And will I still see any winter growth?

I'll give my alii some full sun and see if it speeds things up.

When my larger Benjamina went outside for the first time, only 3-4 leaves turned white and fell. I really expected it would be burned much worse, but it did great.

as for the mall trees, I'm adding a pic below of some Benjamina's in an abandoned mall where they receive no care at all. Still seem thrive. At ground level it seems that they are actually in the ground and that their roots have found their own water supply. How crazy.

Thanks for everything!

You said you live near the equator !! Unless you are at a very high elevation it should be way above freezing even in winter. In that case I do not see why you need to bring the plants inside in winter. May be I missed something.

Al meant 16 hrs on for lights. You could also do the same. Since I get some sun in my enclosed porch I keep it on for less. You will see some winter growth but may be lanky.

Haha. No I said the sun is about 12 on 12 off at the equator year round and I was thinking of mimicking that. I never said I lived there haha. I live in Vermont. MUCH different climate.

however, since my lights are less intense than the sun, I see that 16 on 8 off would be decent for them.

You should put your zone and your general location in your profile - it helps a lot. Vermont is such a beautiful state. Long time back I did a summer job in Burlington and stayed in a farm house close to Essex Jn.

16 hrs is a good duration for foliage plants. I have kept a 2 ft tall benjamina on a window sill with no supplemental light. End of the winter it does not look great but bounces right back in summer. It is a plant that I keep experimenting with.

When I lived in an apartment I had to deal with over-wintering a few temperate plants. I built a wooden box (out of ikea shelves really) that I would sit against the house on the porch. Then I would stuff dry leaves around the pots except the side facing the house. Never lost a plant. Important thing is to have a well-draining mix. Keep it slightly moist though. Even in winter the soil will slowly dry out of the pot. So dumping some snow on the pots every month or so is a good strategy.

I added my zone just as how most of you have yours.

I'll try out the 16 hours of light. I'll probably move them inside fully in late September. Any nights before then that it drops below about 52° they will come inside for the night though.

I'm going to switch to a gritty mix next spring. Right now it's just 60% MG and 40% perlite. All the extra perlite really does help when comparing to straight MG which barely has any perlite.

Either way, I've read to let them dry out a little more between watering than I would in the summer.

One more thing for Al,

when root pruning, do you HAVE to remove some of the canopy and will it stunt growth?

next spring, I'd like to try root pruning on one of my cuttings, before I try the larger tree. Or is that going to hold it back and stunt the growth?

below is the small tree I have in mind. The first pic is from April 2015, after rooting in water. The second pic is from today. It's been potted up 3 times so far. I've also trimmed away lower branches and am holding up more upright with a dowel and twine to give it more of a tree form.

You should pinch every branch on that little guy back to 2 leaves.

Al

Are you saying right now, or if/when I root prune? What affect will pinching the branches back to 2 leaves have? Thanks!

Now is fine. It will significantly increase ramification (the number of branches and leaves), a process you'll need to learn if you want to maximize fullness in your plants.

This is a cupful of a cultivar of coleus that normally has a vine-like/ pendulous/ trailing growth habit - except that it's been pinched heavily.

Mixed Containers · More Info

I will pinch back and post a pic tomorrow! Thanks. Totally makes sense. And yes, my goal is definitely to have it as full as possible. Thank you!

I live in Florida now but grew Ficus in large pots in NY in my living room. We had large windows, 10ft. They went outside in summer on our deck, full sun. They grew like weeds. When I brought them in, I never used lights, they were too tall - 12-14 ft. We had high ceilings. They were gorgeous! When we sold our house, the buyers wanted the trees. We sold them along with the house.lol

In Florida, they grow in the ground, full, hot sun. They are tough plants.

In NY, I root pruned each Spring because I wanted to keep them in the same size pot. Took them outside and cut about 1/3 of the bottom off and about an inch or so off the sides. They would go back in the same pot. I always pruned the green growth when they came back inside.

I had those trees for 20 years. I decorated them at Christmas time with little lights. They were our Christmas trees. Beautiful and healthy. My neighbor in NY, sends me pics of our house with my ficus in the windows.

Mine were always potted in MG, perlite and some wood chips. Nothing exact. They like moisture over the dry winters (at least that was my experience).

Easy growers if you can give enough light.

Jane

Al,

hows this? I didn't bring the larger branches down to only two leaves but I did cut them back and I also cut every smaller branch growing off of them down to two leaves.

and now I can start some new trees with all of the cuttings. So that's a plus. I know there are other ways to get them to root, but I've had a lot of luck with water rooting and it hasn't failed me.

Looks great! Get in the habit of pinching EVERYTHING (well, almost everything that lends itself to pinching) to keep it full. If you pinch a branch early, you lose little in developmental potential, but if you have to prune hard later 2 correct a rank growth habit, you lose a lot. Ideally, you'd let a (ficus) branch grow to 4-5 leaves, then cut it back to 2 leaves. Bonsai practitioners like that because it helps add taper to branch & stem structure, even if it does slow the tree down a little more. Cutting back after 3-4 leaves sacrifices less potential, but induces less taper - but that's not a big concern to you.

BTW - shaving a little off the perimeter of the root ball doesn't eliminate the congestion in the center of the root mass, which is a limitation and why that practice ensures a perpetual sacrifice of potential. Repotting, which includes (or should include) a freshening of the entire soil mass (for ficus) and correction of all root problems ensures elimination of all limitations associated with problem roots (like encircling, girdling, crossing, congested roots).

It's always fun to get to know growers who have open minds and soak up new concepts and knowledge like a sponge. You (used as the collective 'you') can't help but wish a little harder (and try a little harder to see) that growers who avidly embrace ideas new to them are successful.

Al

Great!

always good info.

i am really trying to get into this with a completely open mind and soak up everything I can. Part of me wanted to always believe root pruning wasn't necessary (because I was afraid) but im beginning to realize how helpful it really can be especially if one is planning on keeping their tree a long time.

I've pinched back to two leaves on all 5 of my small ficus now.

As for the larger one, I want to retain its current shape and size, so I'm really unsure of what to pinch back or when to do so. I've just been letting it do its own thing all summer. The only time I prune is when a branch is coming out at a weird angle, sticking out too far, or just looks out of place.

Wow, great info!

how does cutting the leaf in half make them grow shorter internodes? I completely believe you, I'm just curious on how exactly is works.

I'd like to also try that next summer. How much of the tree would you normally do to?

ive learned so much from you in the past 24 hours!

The more light energy the tree converts to food during the process of photosynthesis, the more it has available to direct toward primary meristematic growth areas immediately proximal to growing branch tips so the plant can increase the length of internodes as they form - something not always considered advantageous in the appearance department and something we usually forget to take into consideration during sessions used to envisage the tree's future appearance. Reducing the amount of energy the plant can make or share with its other organs by reducing the surface area of food-producing leaves is a valuable tool we can use to decrease how much energy the tree is able to utilize for extension during periods of robust growth.

Al

That's amazing!

lastly, do you think I should remove the MG soil and repot with a gritty mix for the winter? I'm speaking of my larger ficus. It's in a pot with a lot of soil and well, since there's peat, I see it taking a very long time to dry when I move it back indoors. I've read ficus like to dry out more in the winter.

What are your thoughts?

I'm also having a hard time finding the gritty mix ingredients. Around here, we have Walmart, Home Depot, lowes, and a couple garden centers.

If you are pretty sure your plant can't make it through the winter in the soil it's in, you should probably repot. Don't look at repotting now as a plus for your plant unless you're doing it out of necessity. Generally speaking, it's better to nurse your plants through the winter and get them outdoors in late spring early summer so they can build up energy reserves. Once their level of vitality is high, they'll tolerate really severe work. If your soil isn't drying fast enough, there are ways you can employ a little science to help you with that.

Where do you live in VT?

Al

I live in Burlington, VT.

What's the science you speak of that'll help the soil dry faster?

Right now, the soil is dry and cracked on the top layer within 3-4 days. But, it's also outside. While dry and cracked may sound severe, sticking a finger a couple inches into the soil shows that you cannot judge if a plant needs water just by looking at or feeling the top of the soil. This pot, being 14"x16" is also quite a bit of soil, so that's obviously another reason it would retain water longer.

I don't know that I NEED to repot or replace the soil, it's more of a want as I like the idea of a faster drying soil. However, given the trees current health and the fact that I know enough to not over water, I'm pretty confident the tree will survive the winter in its current soil.

Only have a sec now. The science: Well, you could hold the pot by the rim and spin real fast in a circle and let centrifugal force remove all the excess water from the pot, yes?

Read this & we'll talk more after chores: He's gone - I'll take you there if you please.

Al

Great read! Tipping at 45° angle makes perfect sense. I might also try that pot in pot with some soil at the bottom of the inner pot, to act as a wick, and tricking the soil into thinking that's the 3" perched water line. All great info and definitely things I'd never even thought of! I cannot believe how much more I know in just a couple days.

Also, how do you feel about terracotta pots? I have a dracaena marginata that was in a regular pot with MG mix. It would stay soggy for weeks. I completely removed all the soil and put it in a mix of 40% MG and 60% perlite and potted up into a terracotta pot. Now, the soil completely dries out within just a couple days and the plant is thriving.

Would a pot like that help with the ficus and water retention? They seem to let the soil breath much more.

From the plant's POV, terra cotta is great, and would help reduce the intervals between waterings. The gas permeability allows soils to exhale harmful soil gases and take in more oxygen rich air, all the while increasing evaporative water loss from soils.

Al

Sounds like my tree will at the very least be spending this winter in a terracotta pot. Now, I just have to located one at the end of the season!

Try looking at a mom and pop garden nurseries. . Sometimes they have a used container section where they stack the used pots.. I find that they will sell for half price or less, then go home and clean them ( this is where I find my large terra cotta containers) You can also find some small terra cotta pots at Michael's arts and crafts ...

Hope this helps...

good luck!!

laura

just a thought/question. Instead of a clay pot, what would be the outcome of drilling a bunch of small holes on the outside wall of the current plastic pot? Would that be an alternative? Any advantages or disadvantages to that vs a terracotta pot? I know when the roots hit the air holes it would kill them off, and I've read a bit about air root pruning. Besides that, would I run into issues?

Also, just for fun, here is a the tree when I got it on clearance for $15 this past February vs the tree currently. 5.5 months.

Great. Filled out nicely. The iron grills frames that ficus nicely too.

Plastic pot with holes on the side would certainly allow more air to get in quicker. I had done that once. I had to be more careful watering since some of the water will exit from the holes leaving less to reach the bottom and the core. If the soil dries out a bit too much it will shrink a bit and create an air space around the pot. So more water tends to escape through the holes when watering from the top. Dunking it in a tub of water is a lot safer.

Thanks! I drilled some holes and am going to give that a try. If I run into any issues, I'll switch to terracotta. I'll just make sure I water until I see water coming from the bottom drain holes too.