if you plant them directly in the ground, that is pretty close to what nature does. The seeds are ripening in the pods as we speak, and will be carried off by the wind to be planted in the next few weeks. I don't know how well they would tolerate being mailed across the country, but I have tons of volunteer seedlings in my garden that already have a full season of growth on them. I could send some to you for postage. I wouldn't send them until the weather cools down a bit. So, late September or so. Does anyone have experience transplanting A. tuberosa in the fall? I've done it in springtime with great results. Or, I could leave them where they are and send them to you next spring. I need to do a significant overhaul and rearrange things in my pollinator garden, so they'll get dug up one way or another. Let me know.

Martha

Hi Martha, Thank you for the offer. That is very generous. Maybe I will go ahead and try to plant some seeds, since that is when they would be planted by nature anyway. But if it doesn't work out, I would definitely take some of your transplants in the spring. I love butterfly weed for some reason. I have noticed that there are other colors available besides the traditional orange, so I wanted to try some of those, too.

I had a decade duh? today about cone flower. When I lived in KY, some of my cone flowers after the blooms died and dried SPROUTED and grew seedlings in their heads. Not the same thing as the double decker variety, just some kind of fluke, right? Well, now I am in zone8b and this week have some dead and dried purple cone flower heads. If I try germinating them in containers, if they grow into little plants by Dec., do I leave them outside, or do I give them a head start on next spring under indoor grow lights? I could try to do both and see what happens. But I am still curious about what y'all think.

Purple coneflower tends to germinate better after a prechill, though some will certainly germinate no matter what or when.

If I start some from seed would the young plants be big enough to survive winter in zone 5?

==>>> i highly doubt .... outdoors ... that they would sprout in fall ... soils cooling .. sunlights declining.. etc ...

if you are asking.. can you force them indoors ... and will they harden off at a big enough size .. to go outdoors this fall ... i highly doubt it.. in z5 ...

besides.. they would probably frost heave right out of the ground in mid to late winter ...

i thought you meant.. could you fall sow seed ... and sure you can.. its what the plants are doing right now .. but none of those self sown seed.. will germinate in cool/cold fall soil ..

an easy way to think about this.. is you need 3 basic things for germination ... usually warm soil ... a viable seed ... and sunshine, for sure after germination ... you have the seed

but in fall.. in z5.. you have cold soil ... and weak sunshine as the sun is in decline ... [and keep in mind.. no matter how warm the day ... if its falling into the low 50s at night .. then that is not 24/7 warm soil .. not much germinates at that soil temp]

ken

Thanks, That's a good explanation. So I guess there is not much benefit to planting now as opposed to waiting until spring. Unless it is somehow important for the seeds to have a cold period to help them germinate. Is that important? Although I have to say that a lot of weeds are happily germinating in my yard every day right now.

Last year, I started a few hardy perennial composites in very late July, but I'm zone 7 and it's now late August.

The coreopsis and (argh name gone from mind) another yellow daisy form common to the Plains...anyway, did quite well, putting on sufficient growth that the coreopsis flowered well this year. I kept them on an unheated sun porch till spring, so they experienced temperatures down to about 20F.

I had great results using the wintersowing method (in milk jugs) for butterfly weed. It's certainly more trouble than surface sowing in a garden bed, but you've got better control over heat/light/moisture. That year we had a pretty cold spring, so it took a while for the seedlings to get going. I transplanted them into the garden in June when they only had a couple of true leaves on them, and they've done quite well since then, even flowering in the first season.

I'd also suggest taking a look at swamp milkweed, Asclepias incarnata, if you're interested in butterflies. It needs a more moist location than A. tuberosa and one farther back out of the way since it gets fairly tall -- you'll definitely want some things in front of it. The monarchs in particular seem to prefer it by a wide margin over butterfly weed. I've got several of them and for the last couple of weeks I've seen monarchs on them -- sometimes several -- every day.

So I guess there is not much benefit to planting now as opposed to waiting until spring.

==>>> get two sticks.. place a foot apart ..... dig a line.. very shallow ... insert some seeds .. when you wee the sticks in spring .. you will know to look for seedlings ... do what the flower itself is doing ...

also save seed for next spring ..

two methods to learn by ...

the problem with waiting for spring.. is that often ... you dont find your stored seed until august.. 4 years later... lol ... so do something now ... .. in case life gets in the way in spring ...

ken