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CarrieB - Philadelphia Framing Out

Carrie B
8 years ago

Yesterday, nothing happened. This morning, Builder Guy came with his crew - a different set entirely from Monday's Contractor Crew. Interesting, both contractor & builder had two guys working with them - their respective son & one other. Today is framing-out day for windows/doors.


They removed the existing kitchen window & door & are in the process of sealing up the door hole with cinderblock. The builder told me that he specializes in working with old homes, and said that mine was in pretty good shape - some disintegration of the old bricks, but to be expected, and not too bad.

Tomorrow is hole-making day.


Comments (91)

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    My_four_sons: I know Gaskill, actually did a garden job on the 1200 block this spring!

    Jillius: I asked the contractor this morning how much the structural work (vs straight kitchen) was adding to the budget. He said $12-15000, which makes that original additional 11000 huge!

  • bpath
    8 years ago

    It will, in a way, double (well, increase, anyway) the size of your townhouse. The garden will be more visible as well as easier to get to, so you will be even more likely to use it for living space, even for your morning coffee or Saturday afternoon shandy. That was $$ well spent!

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  • cluelessincolorado
    8 years ago

    That's amazing! Can't wait to see the door in.

  • atmoscat
    8 years ago

    I literally gasped when I saw the pic. This was absolutely the right way to go with your space. So glad you were able to make it happen!

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Today, there was an unhappy discovery.

    Several years ago, when I had my first floor painted, we discovered moisture on the ceiling, in the area just below the second floor shower. The painter caulked around the shower, and that seemed to help. Recently, I noticed moisture in that area again. I mentioned it to the contractor.

    He had the drywall removed from the ceiling in that area & found both significant moisture/water damage and mold. He thinks the shower pan is leaking, but we're not 100% sure exactly, only that it is shower related. He's got a call in to his plumber and also in to a mold remediation guy. It's something significant and needs to be dealt with before cabinets are installed (scheduled to arrive a week from today.)

  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    Oh, unhappy news indeed. I like dcward's positive spin on things. Fingers crossed that the solution is found quickly and inexpensively.

    Carrie B thanked lisa_a
  • Anne CK
    8 years ago

    I second the like of dcward's spin! It was meant to be found now, and not cause problems later on!

    I feel for you on the delay, but it will be handled, and fixed, and then you will have no worries.

    Carrie B thanked Anne CK
  • sena01
    8 years ago

    Sorry for the delay/extra cost, trouble, but ditto what dcward said. Hope it'll soon be solved.

  • marann01
    8 years ago

    I agree with the others and how dcward said it, sorry to learn about this unexpected setback but glad you found it now. Hope it will be a relatively painless and inexpensive fix.

    Carrie B thanked marann01
  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thanks, everyone. Contractor think it's the shower pan, and based on a bit of Google research (and the fact that my sister had a ceiling cave in years ago for that reason) I'm inclined to think so, too. Unfortunately, it will probably cost several thousand dollars to fix, but... needs to be done. Plumber will hopefully come soon!

    They're framing out the door now, and hopefully it will be in within an hour or so.


  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    So, they were just getting ready to put the (Andersen) door & transom in, and discovered that the transom was made 3/4 inch wider than the door. Contractor will call Home Depot (where he ordered them) and see what the deal is, so, looking like another delay - at least, in getting windows/doors completed.


  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    Dang. Not a good way to start the weekend but hopefully it will get squared away quickly.

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Contractor just came to me with a window proposal that I accepted & feel good about.

    He suggested that he'd retro-fit the trim rather than go with the MDF trim that Andersen provided. He will construct trim out of wood & other molding and will use the door/transom that are here.

    While I get that he's got a financial incentive for making it sound like it would ultimately be even better than returning the transom to HD & waiting for a new one, it sounds completely reasonable. I know that the difference in dimension is not the kind of thing I will ever notice - I'll be looking out the window, not at the perimeter, and the difference (he said it's actually 5/8" overall) is very minor distributed between both sides.

  • modellie
    8 years ago

    Is this a tiled shower floor? If yes, it was probably installed incorrectly, i.e: non or faulty waterproofing. This is much more likely than leaky plumbing. If so, the shower floor will need to be ripped out and rebuilt with correct water proofing. I hope for your sake that's not the case, sadly, the fix is neither fast nor inexpensive.

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Modellie - yup, a tiled shower floor. Yup, ripping out is exactly what my contractor said to expect, and several thousand dollars...

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    Carrie B: The more I read about your contractor, the more I like him. When I first read of the jamb dimension disparity I immediately thought "Why not build out the door jamb to match?" and that's just what he's doing.

    Carrie B thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • Jillius
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The leaking shower above the kitchen discovered during the kitchen remodel also happened to my mom! Got a new bathtub and floor in the bathroom in the middle of her kitchen remodel.

    If this isn't going to financially ruin you, it is rather fortunate to find it this way rather than because it got bad enough to cause real problems.

    Word to the wise, my mom picked her replacement tile floor for the bathroom almost without thought because she had no time to plan it and was so full up with kitchen decisions. The tile she picked was bland, cheap, and turned out to be a massive pain to keep clean.

    I know you don't have a lot of time to plan without holding up the kitchen, but do take some to think through what they are doing in the bathroom and what you are going to really want in there long-term.

    And not just the floor -- while the floor is open, now is the time to add outlets or move stuff if you may ever want that done too. You might post your bathroom here and ask for suggestions.

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    I just looked up what that wall looked like before. SUCH a difference already!

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    You know, he's been so great. And his son & the other young man working with him are so lovely and hard working. At this point, except for very short trips, I've been here the entire time they're working. It's been so interesting to watch and learn. Such a pleasure.



    Tomorrow morning, the plumber is coming to look at my shower leak. We're pretty sure it's the shower pan.

    Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday the electrician will be here for roughing in, putting in a new panel, etc.

    Cabinets are scheduled for Friday morning delivery.

    Appliance delivery was pushed back to Friday and the following Monday morning.

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Jillius - good thought to look into the tile. The tile is plain (cheap, I'm sure) white with dark green. The caulk is constantly turning black and impossible to get clean. I'm fine with keeping it simple.


  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Jillius - Yeah, I'll deal financially with what has to be done to the shower. It's going to eat up my kitchen "buffer," but, lucky me, I have some wiggle room. When I told my sister about it her response was: "Lucky that your ceiling didn't fall in like mine did several years ago. I had to replace the shower pan. It's not an unusual happening." And to think, before today, I'd never heard of a shower pan. Is GW's bathroom forum active?


    And I love your before/after of my back wall!

  • Jillius
    8 years ago

    I am not an expert. AT ALL. This is everything I know about waterproofing:

    1) I think Schluter systems is the best on the market when it comes to a truly waterproof tile underlayment. Don't just do cement board.

    2) However, I think no tile + underlayment combination is as permanently waterproof as a shower pan that is one solid piece of fiberglass (or a ceramic bathtub or whatever -- a solid piece of something). Look into doing that instead of retiling the floor.

    3) I think repairing this floor is going to mean tearing out the shower walls too, and I'm not sure you've got that in your head yet. The way that you overlap stuff so that water can't get underneath, the wall materials would be on top of the floor materials. I just don't know how you'd do that without installing the floor first, then the walls.

    I would like to reiterate that I only know enough about this stuff to be dangerous. But perhaps this will spark you to ask questions you didn't know to ask.

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thank you, Jillius. Maybe tomorrow morning I will post on the bathroom forum. Tonight, I am tired (and supposed to meet friends to go hear music... oy, why do I agree to these things?)

  • lisa_a
    8 years ago

    I was going to suggest a one piece shower pan since it looks like your shower is 3 x 3. I will warn you though that a fiberglass pan can develop a crack over time. Ours did, at about 16 yrs. It was a very tiny crack that we couldn't see or feel but when the laundry room ceiling started dripping - on Christmas Eve morning, lousy timing - we knew something wasn't right. But, yay, we found a handyman who came out within a few hours to open up the ceiling, find the leak and plug it temporarily. We had to wait until the day after Christmas for him to repair the pan. He did such a good job that we can't find the repair at all. Hasn't leaked since. And thankfully, it wasn't a long, slow leak so we had no water damage.

    Cast iron shouldn't crack and leak but they weigh a lot so the floor might need reinforcing before installation.

    I love, love, love your new door with transom window! The before and after is as dramatic as when we replaced a 6' span of 2 windows with a 10' span of triple, single hung, mulled window in our DR. I know the happy dance you're doing. =)

  • dcward89
    8 years ago

    That before and "during" is really dramatic and even with bare studs and no cabinets or anything you can see how wonderful all that light is going to be. I'm so excited for you...I feel like I'm watching my sister or a friend go through this!!!

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I'll ask the plumber when he comes tomorrow to give me 2 or 3 options. Good to hear that there are alternatives to tile.

    You know, I'm sitting on the couch and I keep glancing up out of the window, and even though my old fridge is obscuring almost half of it, it just keeps making me smile. My cat (the one who hasn't been cowering under the guest room futon all day - and still is, hours after the workmen left) is enjoying standing at the door, too.


  • anitamo
    8 years ago

    Love it already. What a difference. You must be over the moon happy by now. Enjoy the night out.

    Carrie B thanked anitamo
  • texasgal47
    8 years ago

    Wow, Carrie B, I didn't know you were going the expensive route with the door and transom, but boy am I glad you did. As much as it cost, that baby looks worth every penny. It's as stunning as your role model photo that was posted months ago. Very classy, very high end. Count me in with the GW group as being very happy and excited for you that this dream remodel is finally coming to fruition.

    Carrie B thanked texasgal47
  • kimihh
    8 years ago

    I'm so glad you're chronicling your renovation for us. It's thrilling to watch. As eager as I am to see more progress I have a feeling that putting that door in will be hard to top! Your entire first floor has been transformed! Congratulations! You must be so happy that you figured out how to make that happen.

    Carrie B thanked kimihh
  • badgergal
    8 years ago

    I've been following your remodeling journey. I just have to say that adding that French door in your kitchen was a great decision on your part. I'm sure you already love it.

    Sorry to hear about your upstairs plumbing issues. Three years ago my daughter had her shower leak into her basement. Lucky for her it was unfinished down there. Last year my son's second floor shower/ tub leaked into his kitchen. It was right in the middle of his kitchen ceiling so no damage to the cabinets and he only needed to repair a small section of the ceiling but he did do a complete gut and redo of the bathroom. His demo was just underway when he told a friend about it and his friend advised him to contact his insurance company. In my son's case it was the pipes/valves that were leaking. His insurance company came and took a look at the damage and acknowledged that since a wall needed to be torn out to fix the problem, the whole tub/shower needed to be redone as well as the floor. He ended up getting a check from the insurance company that amounted just over half of his remodeling cost.

    It doesn't cost anything to check with your insurance company and see if they might cover some of the damage and consequent repair.

    Hang in there and good luck as you continue on in your remodel

    Carrie B thanked badgergal
  • marann01
    8 years ago

    Fantastic! I love what you wrote, "I keep glancing up out the window < snip >, it just makes me smile." :)

    Carrie B thanked marann01
  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks so much, everyone. This has been fun - and the hard stuff, like the shower leak, I'm taking in stride pretty well.

    Texasgal47 - While the door is adding a nice chunk to my budget (about 25% of the budget, I believe is structural related - and includes the window over the sink) it's way cheaper than it would have been had I gone with my contractor's first estimate, using the other builder. As a matter of fact, it's cheaper than the compromise plan (window & door separated by 18") with that first builder.

    Kimihh - I'm so glad that people are enjoying my updates. I think I've mentioned that I live alone (with cats) so having humans to share this journey with is really nice. Plus, I suspect my IRL friends are getting tired of hearing about kitchen remodel.

    Badgergal - technically, it's a hinged patio door since only one side opens. The nice thing about that is that the opening (right) side opens all the way and lies flat against the stationary side, so it takes up no room in the kitchen.

  • LE
    8 years ago

    Oh, that light! You like it now, just think how much you'll like it when the days get short. Plus by next summer, a wonderful garden view!

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    FYI: I posted this morning about my shower leak issue, here, in the Bathroom forum. Please join the discussion over there if you've got any bathroom wisdom for me.


    (-carrieb, sitting on the couch, looking out my back door... & still smiling)

  • funkycamper
    8 years ago

    Oh, I'm smiling just looking at the pictures of your back door and transom....and at your cat enjoying the view. It is so awesome, Carrie. I'm so excited for you.

    Bummer about the bathroom leak but, yeah, so much better to find it now than later. Think how awful it would have been if the bathroom fell into your new kitchen. Ouch!


  • raee_gw zone 5b-6a Ohio
    8 years ago

    Have the plumber check the toilet (if it is in the vicinity) before tearing out any of the shower. My leak was the toilet wax ring seal had failed. Water can track a long way from its source!

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    raee_gw - good idea. The water damage does seem localized in a square right under the shower. Nevertheless, that's not a mistake we'd want to make!


    I just posted a question about exterior lights, for over/near the back door & new window. To follow, go here.

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Here's wall lighting I like, am thinking I'd get four the same, two for each side of the door & window.

    Also, here's an inspiration photo for a fountain. I like the middle section of it. Am thinking that a fountain centered on the right panel of the door, about 2-3' wine & about 5' tall might work well. I have a friend who's a mason & I'd hire him to do the building.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    It's bad to have rotten wood and mold, but that photograph shows perfect carpenter ant habitat. With the uninterrupted dinner party and the lack of ants, you're not doing too bad.

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Well, thank you, Joseph. I'm assuming from your tone that I probably do NOT have a carpenter ant problem up there?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    If you had a carpenter ant problem, the person who removed that ceiling would have had a face full of frass.

    Carrie B thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • funkycamper
    8 years ago

    How handy that you now have all that extra brick for your fountain project. I think it's going to look charming.

    I don't recall, do you have eaves outside to hang lights from? If so, I'd just insert flush lights into the eaves.

  • sprtphntc7a
    8 years ago

    hi carrie b....

    been following your progress and love the door and transom...it will add so much light to your home. when we put our slider in the dining room our cat loved it ASAP. squirrels run across our deck and he would get into "hunting" mode, haha...i am in the burbs and we are in the city often so i feel we are neighbors :)...

    great idea to use the brick for your fountain. we just installed a fountain this spring and we LOVE it, I'm sure you love yours as well....

    sorry about the bathroom shower leak, but as others have said, better to find it now then when all the work is completed...

    best of luck the rest of the way and thanks for bringing us along on your journey !!

  • steph2000
    8 years ago

    This is such a fun process to watch. I've been lurking throughout. Such smart designs that will not only make for a much more functional kitchen but bring light and the outdoors in to the space - which is especially great for a talented gardener/landscaper who always has a lovely backyard.


    You are going to have to come back to us when you have your "focal point" in the backyard done. You know that, right?


    I put in a slider and a backsplash window - and when that's all done I'm going to focus on exterior lighting as well as landscaping to make the most out of it. Lighting will help the slider from just becoming a black hole into nothingness at night - and in the dark winter months.


    It sounds like you are working with a great team, too, which is so important. I need some of that...

  • a2gemini
    8 years ago

    Wow! Been away and missed your progress!

  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Funkycamper - eaves at the top of the house? No. And it's a three story house, so the lights would be way too high up for my purposes.

    Sprt... - that cat's already been scratching at my new screen!


    Am hoping to have more information about the shower tomorrow... I'd like to get the plumber to lay out my options and prices... Oh, and electrician is coming tomorrow.

  • funkycamper
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    D'oh! I momentarily forgot that not everyone has a single story house with wide eaves!!!! I was sitting on my patio looking up at my flush-mounts in my eaves and just thought how simple they are and so protected from weather and, well...double d'oh!

  • Mags438
    8 years ago

    Have been away for a while -- great to see you are doing your kitchen and the fantastic rear wall as originally planned. Looks great! If that's original brick, keep each and every single piece. Extremely hard, if not impossible to match or replace.

    Carrie B thanked Mags438
  • Carrie B
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Mags438! I've been wondering where you've been!