lol Yeah, Denise. I think that is how it is. She wasn't trying to criticize. She wanted me to give her some insight into what it is like to do our hobby, what kinds of people are attracted to it, and what makes it rewarding. I mean, I would be thinking the same thing if I were in her shoes. I was thinking the same thing at one point! That wire shelving doesn't match the aesthetic of hardwood floors and period molding and I would never use them. Ha…! Anyway, these are the points I made. Let me know if you agree/disagree. Point 1: Expertise gives you different vision When I look at a chessboard, I see this: blahblahblahblah. Sure, I know the rules of chess and could technically play (aka lose) a game. But when expert chess players look at mid-game chessboards, they see patterns. They see the strategies of the players and how the board will look many moves into the future. In the same way, when my sister looks at my plants, she sees a wall of green leaves and vines, which look pretty much the same as each other. She sees this: blahblahblahblah. When we look at our plants, our eyes are able to make much more sense out of the picture. We see them as individuals even when they are massed together, because our eyes are much more experienced with this task. We get a lot more information out of the image, so it is not abstract or boring. This is especially true when looking at our own collections. Point 2: Working with our plants releases endorphins If you have 3-5 plants in your house then watering them takes about 5 minutes. Maybe you feel a little insecure about your ability to keep your plants alive, so when you walk over to them, it's with a sense of trepidation and humility. Comparing this type of plant interaction with the time we spend with our plants is like comparing walking to the parking garage with going on a 10 mile run. Our brains release endorphins while we work with our plants, so our brains start to drool endorphins just from looking at our plants... in anticipation of the calming activity they represent. As someone who has a much higher than average baseline anxiety level, I know that, even if I have neglected my plants and there's going to be hell to pay, once I start working on them my brain will shut off and I will feel no anxiety until I'm done. It's like taking drugs. Point 3: Different collectors have different things they get out of it A serious grower could absolutely have the goal of using their sophisticated knowledge of plants to beautify their property. But they could just as easily have a different goal, such as learning more about the genus of plants, its members, their adaptations and variations, their potential medical applications, etc, etc etc. Or their goal could be to set themselves high challenge bars, and attempt to crack the code and bloom a species of which there are very few photographs, or grow a prize-winning plant for a show. Or their goal could be to socialize with other growers, swap plants, and make friends. Saying someone has failed to meet an aesthetic ideal with their grow room is making some pretty rash assumptions about what interests and motivates them. Point 4: What is good for us is not always good for the plants One of the biggest shifts that occurs, when a person gets serious about this hobby, is that they start to put the plant's preferences before some of their own. Sometimes you can reach an equilibrium in which the plant habitat looks beautiful to everyone (and not just other collectors), but often, what looks "pretty" (I'm looking at you, girl with African Violet sitting in the middle of her coffee table) is a much less happy environment for the plant. So, when my sister looks at my setup through her eyes and sees "ugly," I'm looking through the plant's eyes and seeing "comfy cozy!" Frankly, most "aesthetic" plant setups look like torture camps to my eyes, and there's nothing pretty about that. Point 5: Aesthetics… This is the bit that you two both jumped right on. Some people would kill to live in a modern SoHo loft and others would give their eye teeth for a rustic Montana ranch. I know my plant setup isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I have gone to great pains to make it aesthetic in its own way. Kind of in a science lab or professional greenhouse kind of way, but hey, that is still pleasant. When I'm finished moving, my plants are going to have a room to themselves, one which happens to have some of the best views in the house. I can tell my sister and mom are a bit taken aback that I would give the best room to the plants, but to me it just makes sense. Aside from the logic of good South and East exposures, it is one of the rooms I will be spending the most time in. So, while it will look like a very bright storage room to them, it will be the heart of the house to me, and a very beautiful space indeed. But, I suppose if I can keep asking her what she sees in her fiancé, she has a right to ask me what I see in my plants. ;) ====================== And now my responses to your remarks above… Denise, I am very much in the camp of believing that when someone gets extreme about an aspect of their life, it must be serving a function of some kind. That doesn't mean they are broken and need to stop. We ALL self-regulate. It's just that some methods are untraditional and eye-catching and others blend right in and camouflage the root problem/feelings the person is trying to work out. (e.g. A businessman working 80 hour weeks; a housewife going Martha Stewart crazy; a college student binge drinking… are all pretty invisible to our eyes. But buy 100 indoor plants and eyebrows definitely get raised.) Many years back I got really into MMORPGs and played one quite obsessively. (translation: big online game you play with other people.) To truly be a part of that community, you have to log an embarrassing quantity of hours every day; it basically becomes a second job. I can certainly say that the other people I met during that time of my life were all wrestling with something or another. Today, the only ones of us that are still playing that game or similar ones had very very serious underpinning reasons for living their life in limbo. Everyone else eventually balanced themselves out and started using their free time more productively. As I've told people before, I got into Hoyas on the back of a really bad breakup with a partner of 8+ years. There's no way I would have collected this many Hoyas if I started today. But it's a part of my lifestyle and identity now. So, it's not like, just because I'm in a better place, I'm going to chuck out all the plants. (lol) Of course, most people here don't have collections as disproportionate as mine, so I am not speaking about you guys at all. But my collection most certainly bloomed from a time in my life when I needed some serious anxiety management tools. That said, it's pretty arrogant to make assumptions about what other people's reasons for their excesses are. We don't all want the same things out of life. So, what you perceive as a 'lack' in someone's life, might not be driving them at all. All you really know is that they've found something that works for them, and if you have the desire to judge them for their choice, then you've got your own issues to work out. This post was edited by greedyghost on Thu, Oct 2, 14 at 14:26

John, I wonder if you were an Italian grandma in a previous life? Many Italians in the North End of Boston where my DH grew up had second kitchens in their homes. They had tiny little sweet Nonnies (grandma) that wore aprons and pinched your cheeks. The 2nd kitchen was so the rest of the home would not overheat with all the cooking. But I believe it was for another reason, let me explain. My husband's Nonnie had a kitchen in the basement. And boy oh boy if you went down their uninvited you would get your ear pulled. It was her private space to roll out pasta, stir heated sauces, canned tomatoes, store her back patio garden grown tomatoes, onions and basil, and that basement was her retreat from the family drama. If someone showed up to dinner unannounced, no worries Nonnie had pasta in the freezer, Risotto ready to go, or a cheese that was for company. She would magically appear laided with food to make them feel welcome. Sometimes Nonnie would spend time with a sister or daughter. They would cook, laugh, cry, delight in each other's company but mostly it was for his Nonnie only. Her 2nd kitchen was her escape from the familial drama and place to enjoy her passion for cooking. Not really the heat. It was more than keeping the heat out of the city brownstone. Sometime if you were lucky Nonnie would invite you to help her but this was rare. My husband only in his 40s still remembers his nonnie rolling out Gnocchis in different containers so each one of his aunts, uncles and adult cousins could take them home. She made special meatballs for this uncle who wanted only pork and this one who wanted raisins in his and this Aunt who wanted small ones. Everyone was spoiled with food. It was her way to express her love to her family. I wish you could build a 2nd kitchen for yourself. One with giant locks, bolts and secret codes that only those truly worthy could enter. They would bring you joy while you cook and not interupt or destroy the magic you need to create amazing dishes. When we do entertain, ( i am not the chef you are) I am one of those people who pre-cooks. I know this is terrible. I make the lasagna hours before so only have to bake it, or have DH grill while my accompanyments are simple. Otherwise the interuptions and chatty kattys drive me batty. Wishing you a good solution to your layout and passion for cooking. ~boxer

The website pcmag.com is the remnant of the highly respected but now defunct PC Magazine, with many of the same contributors (Neil Rubenking, John Dvorak, etc) still around and active. The contributors they have are mostly experienced and responsible professionals, not the pimply faced geeky types found on other sites. Now as during its heydays as the leading PC publication for the general public, its aim is to reach a mostly non-technical readership with interesting and useful articles. It's not as technical as a trade publication, nor as basic as "XXX for Dummies". I've been a reader and admirer of their work for decades.

I don't know the background of your major system issues but I can contribute that Windows does not permit Defender and Security Essentials to run on the same system at the same time. Pick one or the other...but not both. If Security Essentials won't install...it's likely that Defender has been activated. Go to Control Panel > Options > Windows Defender and check. Then check Programs and Features. If Security Essentials is still running on your system...it will be listed there. If you no longer wish to use it...click on it and Remove it. If you want Security Essentials rather than Defender...deselect Defender and try reinstalling Security Essentials.