Trees get a reputation of being fast or slow based on immediate perceptions. If someone plants a tree in the spring and sees that it has grown by the fall, it's a fast growing tree. Trees, plants, generally don't grow that way.

If maackia is not happy, it can be very, very slow. I've seen grow in very very wet conditions...after 20 years, it was maybe 8' tall. But the key here is, it was very, very wet. Most other trees would have died. It survived, it grew, just very slow. If it's happy, it's a modest grower for a mid range sized tree. In a world of instant gratification, you have to read between the lines on anything else. So yes, you'll be able to enjoy it in your lifetime. Just maybe not before the next election.

I have an old yellowwood. It was planted in late 40s? Base of trunk is maybe 8' around? It's planted in a yard...there's not even a mulch ring around the tree. The point is, if there was any mess created, it has no where to hide. And I'd say, take everything you have heard about mess from this tree and forget it. From a tree with a crown greater than 50' in diameter, I find so few pods I couldn't fill a 5 quart pail.

If you are looking for new trees to add, may I recommend the Copper Curls Lilac?

Of the two the Cladrastis is more choice. But notice it grows over 50' across. The Maackia reaches similar dimensions also. Since trees are big, slow growth in a tree can be something like 2' per year.

I ordered two maakia seedlings along with some other trees a few years ago. The post service didn't deliver until over two weeks later. This was in july and all trees looked a little rugged after that treatment. But the maakias, only 4" tall, lost their leaves and I thought they where dead. But to my surprise they leafed out as normal the next spring. That's not bad after losing the leaves in mid july. They seem encredible tough but kind of slow growing, probably not more than 10" a year.

Cladastris has not bloomed here yet, but I've seen older specimens. Pods no more 'messy' than the leaves and petioles.

thanks, all. Thinking of "messy" as big tough leather pods that you'd never leave where people walk, the real "chestnut" of the horsechesnut or abundant fruit that falls en mass, rots and smells and attracts insects. Don't want to eat near that.

Clearly, happily yellowwood is not one of those.

When people say...caution....about a tree getting "huge" what are future issues? Will the canopy eventually overhang the roof and be a hazard?

Will it cast shade where shade is not wanted?

Will it be out of scale with its surroundings, both constructed and natural?

How important is longevity to the owner? I am 65 and I'd love to stay in this house 10 or 15 more years (I have no particular expectation we can because life is unpredictable)

So if gets too big in 20 years do I care? In 30 years? (I hope I am gone by then)

The challenge is I have quite a few unusual small and medium trees and I'd love to get something I'm not familiar with. That eliminates Kousa Dogwoods (unless I get a pink one)

magnolias (plus its specific challenges)

I love styrax enough that'd I'd get a 3rd one.

My experience with halesia is that its branches swoop very low to the ground. Despite regular, discriminating pruning that is what it wants to do. Can't really walk under it.

Want something with canopy that will actually provide shade and cool the south side of house......so "big" isn't inappropriate.

Some kinds of Halesia are more tall and vigorous that others.

Two things:

First, what have you learned about asking about "big" trees on this forum?

Second, take the chainsaw away from ken. Someone used the word tree and roof in the same sentence...clearly, we need an intervention. I suggest something involving beer and trees. And BBQ. I have the smoker.

To me, a tree that maxes out at approximately 50' at maturity is a mid sized tree. Large trees tend to be 60-80' and greater, mid sized trees from 30'ish to approximately 50', and small, in the 20s tall. Now we can (and sometimes do) get caught up in discussing how big a certain tree can possibly get. Don't get me wrong...I think the biggest mistake people make is not accommodating potential sizes, but at the same time, seldom do we want a landscape where each and every plant is given the potential space that the largest specimens in the country have attained.

There's a balance, and some of that is personal perception. If you want a tree that can provide some shade to your house, you have to plant it close enough to shade the house. That means someone else, due to their own personal preferences, is going to object, because it will cast shade on the house. How close is too close? That is a question that often appears here, and ultimately, it's a question for each to answer on their own.

Useful comments, Wayne. Thinking, thinking .....

Yellowwood seedpods are similar in size to - but less 'durable' and marcescent, in my experience, than those of redbud.

I will learn something new today; so might others:

1. Marcescent: (of leaves or fronds) withering but remaining attached to the stem.

I can't figure these two plants out. They seem to be so darn slow growing here.

I've planted them in well drained clay and in well drained loams. Both soils being slightly alkaline. Slow slow slow.

My current Yellowwood hasn't grown more than 1' over 3 seasons. Other growers reported slow growth as well but not nearly as slow as mine. However the ones at Chicago Botanical Garden are as big as any other large growing tree there.

Yellowwood seems to drop leaves early but you do get some really nice fall color. This plant will not flower for 7-10 years so you might want to consider that.

Maakia has no fall color but the blooms in July are quite welcoming. There winter silhouette is more interesting due to the stout branching.

Helpful comparison.

Sorry about misspelling maakia. No way to fix it now.

Whaas,

We've used yellowwood several times and they are terribly slow to establish. After 3-4 years they seem to take hold and now grow around 12-15" a year. Have seen them growing much more rapidly at other places and can't figure it out.

We have the same problem with Maackia. Sounds like a great tree on paper but really struggles becoming established and flourishing.

Yellowwoods we planted 8-9 years ago still have not flowered and they were already 3-4 years old to start with.

Both are great trees when they are happy- just hard to get them there!

Yellowwood is a very nice US native that is surprisingly hardy through z4. I guess it's a bit slow to establish, but this seems to be true for most trees I plant. After 3-5 years in the ground you can expect moderate growth or better. I planted one at the old place in 2000 that is now about 25'-30', and there were years it put on 2' or more. It is very slow to flower, and then doesn't flower every year. This is frustrating, but well worth the wait. It has unique flowers that are nicely fragrant. Fall color is a warm yellow/gold, and foliage stays clean throughout the growing season. What's not to like?!

Maackia may not be as choice as Yellowwood, but still worth one's effort to grow it. I planted one at the old place in 2001 and once established it consistently put on 12"-18" of growth/year. That's not fast, but much stronger growing than what I had read and expected.

I think so much of these two trees that I planted both at my new place (2011 & 2012). They are about 20' apart and both have settled in nicely. Well, I think they are doing just fine, but this may be a reflection of gardening in a harsh climate where we don't expect 2' of growth every year. ;)

I am beginning to think neither is first choice for central and visible spot where shade is needed for a specific reason.. I have another place or two where either can take its time growing, and become a lovely specimen.

If you can find it/order it I really like Tilia mongolica 'Harvest Gold'. Its more moderate growing.

Has very ornamental bark and golden fall color.

Second choice would be a smaller scale Sugar Maple. Like Acer grandidentatum x saccharum ‘Hipzam’

Just throwing a couple ideas out there.

(Quick side question for whass_5a.. Do you have a 'Harvest Gold' linden?)

Yes, its about 7 years old. Call it 12' tall and 5' wide.

researching.....

Any pictures of it? I am looking into getting one.. or a cut leaf type

I haven't found yellowwood to be slow growing, started from a #10 containerized tree. It has made flowers 2 of 4 years I have had it. The Maackia is slower, but beautiful when it is leafing out in the spring.

terrene You find it does well in sandy areas of Massachusetts? I might be interested in taking you up on your offer. Where are you in MA? Ho does one send messages via houzz?

Hi Ed, I live in metro west. Marie and I have met at plant swaps and we've both hosted them. You are welcome to come dig up a tree (or 2) as well. My neighborhood is upland and has well-drained, sandy loam. Apparently the subsoil is "sand and gravel as far down as you can dig" (was told this by a guy at the Board of Health when we were discussing septic systems). There is even a sand pit about a mile from here.

There are several Cladrastis kentukea in the neighborhood, apparently the previous owner dug up a seedling back in the 60s and it's now a big tree. Since I removed about a gazillion Norway maples from the back yard, the yellowwood seedlings are popping up everywhere.

I'm not sure about messaging in Houzz? Supposedly it can be done, but I haven't messaged at all since Houzz took over.