I learnt the same thing, exactly the same way :-D

Melodye

It's no wonder that, aside from the candelabra stem I left alone this time, the poor thing is still under 12" tall. It kept trying, but I was blind to its efforts. Well, I know now!

:-)

~Christopher

How will yours go over winter? Obviously you get MUCH colder than my area.

It went through the last two pretty well -- considering how small it's been, there's not a lot rising above that could get damaged. The first Winter (2013-2014) it was still in its pot, and along with some others that didn't get planted, was "buried" in a box I made with cinder blocks and filled with mulch. The second Winter (2014-2015) it had about 4" of tip damage, but below that it was fine.

The thing I'm discovering about Chinas and Teas here is that they grow REALLY well in our growing season, and don't seem to resent being cut back a lot to remove Winter damage. My "Bermuda Spice" reached about 4-5 feet tall and wide by the end of last season, then got cut back to about 12" this Spring. It's already approaching 4-5 feet tall and wide again. With me, it seems that they "don't seem to mind" as long as I'm cutting back only last season's growth. They'll never be as big and glorious as in California, but they keep blooming through the heat when my others take a break.

:-)

~Christopher

Thanks for that information. Mine doesn't die back and flowers continually in winter. I usually just remove spent flowers from all my Teas and China's, just removing any twiggy bits that that die back, so although they don't make huge growth in any 1 year, they develop over time into large shrubs. That said, I had to cut back 2 huge Mons.Tillier this year, in late Summer, from 12' down to 3' and they have shot back up to 8' already, with no additional care. They were blooming again within 4 weeks. I LOVE these roses!

Melodye

Roseseek, thanks for that additional info, as I am interested in trying to grow some of my teas from cuttings. I took some from Baronne Henriette Snoy in autumn, but just from pencil size cuttings. They are in a pot under the carport with no protection and seem to be growing, but anything that promotes fast root development would be welcome.

Melodye

This plant has a lovely shape on its own and I try not to prune except where it crowds out its neighbor.

Other roses that have taught me that same lesson are the Austin, 'Prospero', and Harkness' 'International Herald Tribune'.

Yes, with smaller plants, let the rose decide where to break growth. The hybrid tea "rule of 5 leaflets" has caused a huge amount of damage.

I had the same experience with Perle d'Or. Since here it is growing in a milder climate, eventually I did start pruning it to keep it to around 8 feet wide and 6 feet tall. It wanted to be considerably wider and taller, but I am growing it as a hedge of 8 plants on the edge of a patio, and there were constraints.

michaelg -- There weren't ANY leaflets on the candelabra I left behind -- just bare stem, forking a few times at the end. It looked funny for a while -- until it later sprouted leaves.

:-)

~Christopher

Thanks so much for the info! I have a baby Perle d"Or which I have not pruned at all - still getting established (which means I hand water it every other day). I will definitely leave the candelabras alone. I knew it did not like to be pruned, because there is a mature one in our neighborhood which someone (new homeowner) pruned as you would a HT. The poor thing almost died - it sulked for 3-4 years, looking pathetic. It took it about 8 years to regain its prior size. Luckily the owner must have noticed, because it never got pruned that way again.

Jackie

I did a hard pruning to my eight a few years ago when they were about 10+ feet wide, 8 feet tall, and threatening to close off access to the patio like the hedge of briars around Sleeping Beauty's castle. The canes were so heavy they were threatening to split the plant with their weight. They paused for a few months then resumed growing. I now prune them 2-3 times a year. I think I was curious to see just how big they would get. I think they could have grown a bit larger if I'd let them. A good rule might be not to prune until this rose gets to the size you want, then prune to keep it there.

I'm looking at my nearby planting of Westside Road Cream Tea/Jesse Hildreth. They may need similar treatment. Fortunately they are not as heavily armed as Perle d'Or is. The one that came to me as Jesse is at the end of that row, and I'd love to train it up as a tree like the one in the original picture, but perhaps that is not the best idea. Realistically there is not room for those roses to get much taller and wider than 4 feet; 3.5 would be better, particularly in width. I planted them two feet on center in from the edge of the sidewalk.

Christopher, yes, I get you. I agree with not pruning candelabra of small plants at all, even the huge coat-hanger tangles of some polyanthas. I have a big naked one right now on 'Gruss an Aachen'.

'Perle d'Or' is a beautiful rose with blackspot resistance, but it is not hardy here.

Perle d'Or will leaf out even on the nodes where the short 3 inch stems that hold the flowers grow. Instead of pinching each and every one of the zillions of wasted blooms you can cut at that point where 3-5 blooms are usually held. This is what I regularly do.

A friend in France has a strong belief that Perle has a lot of Noisette in it and should be treated appropriately.

I agree with him, esp on the form and orderlyness of the blooms in the sprays.

Ah, that clarifies something about my Perle D'Or, that it has a lot of noisette in it. Mine does survive my zone 5 winter more or less (maybe 6 years old, own root), but it never gets above knee high and only puts out a bloom or two at irregular intervals in the season. It sure doesn't bounce back from bring pruned to the ground like the rest of my HTs and floribundas or hybrid musks. I guess I should be glad it blooms at all, since Madame Alfred Carriere doesn't bloom at all after losing all its canes over winter, but it puts out monster large growth all summer. Perle D'Or must channel its energies from those few canes it puts out into a few blooms instead.

Cynthia

...I took this photo of 'Perle d'Or' at a garden I visited this summer... I'm pretty sure it's that rose but I've lost my photo label, and no idea how long it's been in the ground there...

..if it was mine and I had to prune a bud cluster, my instinct would be to go back to the next set of leaves, but apparently this isn't necessary from what everyone is saying...

..pretty little rose,... probably doesn't get very big here...

Chris, thank you for this big huge tip in this thread. I have been cracking my head thinking all sort of troubleshooting from water, drainage, voles, nemodotes, grubs , weather to a point , perhaps it is allergic to me...lol.
I can't remember how I cut the blooms on Perle d ' Or . I remember not cutting my Cecil Brunner candlebras. It happen 3 times and now after reading your thread. It makes sense why the growth is more on Cecil Bec I left 3 times the candlebras alone. But it did not dong on me until now after I read your thread.
I got to try that on Perle . Thanks again .

jin

And I learned it for the most part on 'International Herald Tribune'!

The way I did 'Perle d'Or' was to leave the entire candelabra, then see where new shoots started, and pruned away all but those facing outward. Over a few years, it resulted in a sort of V-shaped plant, much like the mature structure of a Tea. You can see it in some of my HelpMeFind pics, but I went into more detail in the thread below.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/4691084/how-do-i-prune-a-candlebra-cane#n=16

:-)

~Christopher

Thanks for putting another link. I will read it after work. Chris, you are awesome ! Thanks again !!
jin

Where has this thread been all my life! So informative. I am sorry we have treated the various varieties of the rose world like they are all hybrid teas for exhibition. My roses will be treated differently from now on (I only have one hybrid tea, Stranger, that was a stowaway on my Yolande band). Can't wait to see what they will do!

This is super helpful! Thanks to all for the tips, and thank you Jin for resurrecting this one. I’m going to pay much closer attention to my pruning now. :-)