Ok--no probe! What are my options?

Capital MCR36 is an excellent choice around $4k

Bluestar RCS36 series (has open burners) will come in that ball park as well.

Those are pro style ranges with larger burners and commercial sized ovens. They are pretty simple ranges that work well.

The Bertazzoni and Smeg are nice ranges as well. A little different (Italian ranges usually are). Just do your homework and make sure you have service in your area first. Bertazzoni will offer a dual fuel in your price range (you don't have to use the self clean feature!)

Joe,

Do you think it's worth it to downgrade a little on the fridge (30" Liebherr) and possibly the d/w (undecided) to get a higher end range--like Miele?

Thanks!

(We're in the SF area, so service is not a concern. It's just the time and hassle that service would take that's not idea, of course.)

IMHO no not really. Miele is very new to the marketplace with that range. Noone knows what that range is yet in terms of reliability. Generally you can get all the quality and features you want for less.

That being said, I do like the thermador and wolf ranges if you end up spending the extra money. Those should be around $6k and would be the "name brand" ones to recommend.

Don't skimp too much on the dishwasher. Dishwashers are arguably the most complex appliance in your kitchen. A few hundred dollars can get you a better machine, that uses less water/energy and does a better job cleaning your dishes!

Thanks! We had spec'd out a Miele DW....they really do seem to be the best!

Every expenditure depends on your priorities. I would definitely put my money in the cooking appliances, but that is my priority and they make the most difference for me. There is another thread about priorities in the kitchen. Would you consider separate range top and wall ovens? You could get the burners you want and an oven and combi oven-each best for your needs. You might even consider a 30 inch range top with a couple of portable induction burners when needed. I read about one lady with a tiny kitchen that had no stove at all but bought induction burners she kept in a drawer. If you like Wolf burners, you don't have to have their oven but could get something for much less that works just as well. You could get a BS range top and still have an electric oven.

If you bake a lot I would reconsider getting an electric oven. To me this can be the most complex appliance but I like having those tools available. Some of the advantages of some of the more full featured electric ovens(not always the priciest)for a baker might be

variable fan speed- slow for conv bake and fast for conv roast Not every one has it but if I were buying electric I would want it I don't think any gas oven has it. You have to ask about it from the manufacturer. There are some expensive ovens that don't have this

-3rd element for more even heating when the oven is full- only Frigidaire has it in a gas oven to my knowledge BS has a power burner but it does not function in the same way

-Electric ovens hold on to more moisture which promotes starch gelatinization and can allow for a better rise. Gas ovens move more air through them for ventilation so can be drying which is great for roasting. This is also why they put more heat and moisture in your kitchen. You can use a fan to do the same thing with a fan in an electric oven.

You can always buy a probe that is separate from your oven. You may have to do that anyway if the oven one fails.

I have baked for many many years on all kinds of ovens but love the way my Electrolux oven functions. I also had a Wolf dual convection oven in my range that was great but the Elux almost matches it and is much less expensive. It is much quieter and puts very little heat into the kitchen. They have been recently redesigned to have dual fans/ convection elements.

I have been very happy with a Bosch dishwasher. I have an 800 series but my DIL has a 500 series and likes it. Mine takes off anything baked on and everything comes out sparkling. You do have to get the right soap which might vary with your particular water.

I would have bought a much less expensive frig except that I needed a 48 inch frig to keep the frig from sticking out into the doorway so it vastly improved my kitchen functionality. I bought KA strictly on layout of the shelves and ice maker but could have bought SZ but did not like the ice maker placement. The KA has been my only trouble free appliance. I am not worried about keeping produce looking good. The nutritional value drops off anyway and I keep everything covered so it keeps long enough.

Reliability is very hard to predict. If only everything were built like my Speed Queen washer and dryer. They just aren't anymore.

I am in a 36" oven range hell in SF as well. Really had my mind set on a Miele range but the service is a nightmare. I called their customer service line and could barely talk to the rep. So snotty and unpleasant. Yikes. Switched to Viking series 7 and got spooked by the recent recall and a flood of online complaints online. We actually had a 30" older Viking and it did have a few issues but we sort of got used to it. Anyways, considered Capital (don't like the looks) and Bluestar Platinum (actually, too powerful and expensive), Thermador Pro Grand (don't like the star burners and the on-off clicking noise the simmer burner makes). Thought about Verona and Bertazonni (both week burners, in my opinion). Now leaning towards AG 6 burner Wolf but I hate the fact that burners top out at 15k. Good luck in your search.

Your experience with Miele has been the opposite of mine. When I had a problem with my dishwasher under warranty u called Miele and they sent their own technician out to fix the problem rather than some third party servicer. I would not let one negative interaction with a telephone representative spoil your image of a great brand. On the other hand wolf is also a great brand. Remember not to obsess too much over the appliances that you end up not enjoying your investment, you should look to buy from a manufacturer that makes reliable products and has good service. The little differences like a few more BTUs on the burners, open vs closed etc. etc. will make very little difference in the end...those little features will not make you a good cook.

I've had fabulous customer service with Miele - actually going "above and beyond" what they needed to do. It is a regional thing with Miele I've heard. I am in the Midwest.

I agree one hundred per cent with Wekick that you should consider a rangetop and separate wall ovens. It is the biggest regret that I have in my kitchen that I chose a range instead of separate rangetop and double wall ovens. Yes, it will be more expensive. But to me, it is so important, especially when you think of the years of use you have in front of you, that I would cut elsewhere to get them.

Another option would to go with a range and a combi steam oven as a lot of people on here have. I like the idea of having the main oven in a ventilated area, and the option of using a combi steam for daily use for smaller quantities of food.

"On the other hand wolf is also a great brand. Remember not to obsess too much over the appliances that you end up not enjoying your investment, you should look to buy from a manufacturer that makes reliable products and has good service."

That is the tricky part, We thought by going with Wolf we would have a company that stood behind their products. They did not. They were the worst in that to get repairs done on my oven, you have to use their people, they would not say how much to repair, only that it would start at $800 and the new part would only be guaranteed for a year. This with a known issue they have.

"The little differences like a few more BTUs on the burners, open vs closed etc. etc. will make very little difference in the end...those little features will not make you a good cook."

I would agree that features of a range will not make you a good cook and there will be some that view them as "little features". Others will see a huge difference. That is why they hang around here. :-)) Many people have strong preferences about these things because of the way they cook. If you understand the properties of your cookware and burners and how they will interact with your cooking you can make choices that make your cooking easier and more seamless. You will also be able to know how to work around the weaknesses of a particular burner. 25K is quite a bit more heat than 15K. If you do high heat cooking, I'm thinking this is significant. Star shaped burners are useful in providing more even heat if you like cast iron or steel cookware. If you have heavy gauge copper or aluminum, it won't matter. For many a sealed or semi sealed burner tray is easiest to clean while others much prefer an open burner tray that breaks down. Some like black enamel burner trays while others prefer stainless steel or cast iron on BS. To me the more knowledge you have, which does require investment of time, you will be able to see more clearly what suits you. For those who do notice the difference, they will enjoy their investment more if they know exactly what they are buying.

It's good to know about different service depending on the region. Thanks, Whiterussian31!

Also, I actually REALLY want a small combi/steam oven. Maybe I should just go with a cheaper range, and nice steam convection oven, and my bases would be well covered.

Wekick...I definitely want lower maintenance cleaning and we do use cast iron just about daily.

I know I was originally researching mid-range ($3-4k) 36" ranges and couldn't find any that really stood out. I found I could do a lot better with a 36" cooktop and 30" wall oven

Unfortunately, our cabinets are already being installed and we didn't really have room for a wall oven. If we get the steam oven and the cheaper range fails at some point, well....at least we'd have a secondary option and could then get the best 36" range.

Ktmha, we are at the same point in our painful remodel! Kitchen cabinets are going in next week, so no space for a wall oven

Are you any closer to making a decision on a 36" range?

Aaaaah, I'm about to call Meyer and Airport Appliance and see about total pricing for the three (range, fridge, d/w) and a possible steam convection.

Ktmha, what brand did you end up choosing?

Please post back with a review of the Miele. This is their first time selling a gas oven in the North American market, and pretty sure it's the first time they've manufactured a gas oven ever.

Ahhh, I love Miela's oven range. The European design is so appealing. Where you able to get a good deal on it? I was offered a fantastic price on a 4 burner + griddle range by Miele and we decided to pass on it. I hope your enjoy your new appliances!

I am definitely thinking of the Miele DF 6 burner. Did you pick up the extended warranty? That sounds like a good option given the newness of the range and I want to see if there are any limitations that you found with it?

Yeah, Miela is always at MSPR, not a cent less. I was able to find just one deal on the Miela range and it was an Overstock.

I ran into a huge problem. I was about to place an order for a 36" BlueStar Platinum and realized to my horror that it needs a 6" clearance to the left. We have an opening that is 36" and not an inch more. Aaaahh, what can I do here?!? Please, any advice will be so welcomed.

Make sure you put something non combustible on the wall. That 6" clearance is to a combustible material.

What non-combustible material I can put on the side of the kitchen cabinet? Does the wall BEHIND the range have to be non-combustible as well? Many thanks.

Look at the specs for the BS Platinum re: behind the range. I have the RCS and it requires the wall behind the range to have non combustible material 6" down behind the range if you use the island trim (and you are placing the range against the wall). If you have the 6" or higher back guard then you don't need to. The Platinum may be different however. We had extra tile from our backsplash, so we tiled the wall behind our range.

If you tile the side wall and back you should ok, so far as I understand this will meet code no problem. Tile is fired at a higher temp than the range can produce.

Thanks for the feedback!