Thanks Marlorena.....lots of good information. I like the way you describe 'EB' ie the right size to make an impact, without being overpowering.

Ditto on the Festuca.

Sesleria autumnalis is another option. It is approx. 8-12" tall with a spread of about 18". The flowers (inflorescence) are very interesting in that they start out white then become black so you end up with separate black and white blooms at the same time. Mine are extremely well behaved and never seed. They are long lived and reliable.

Bouteloua is a small soft looking grass with long lasting strange sideways flowers that bloom really all summer. A very different looking grass. There is a variety named 'Blond Ambition' as well. They seem short lived and will seed a bit which makes the seedlings welcome.

Try liriope. It's technically not a grass but looks like one. Lovely purple or white flower spikes in late summer. Can take the heat, and grows fine in part shade or full sun. I prefer the clumping variety (L. muscari) over the running variety (L. spicata).

I very much like Japanese Blood Grass but I have found it difficult to establish. My clumps are in part shade, fairly moist conditions. I lost quite a few clumps here and there before the swath finally settled in as a whole over a period of I'd say 4-5 years. I just planted another swath in a different area of the yard last fall, only 1 clump survived, planted replacements late this spring, will see how they do over this winter - but frankly am expecting some losses.

Try liriope.

Such an interesting idea mxk3. This past winter it was on my "to buy" list and for whatever reason I didn't purchase any of them :(. My concern is its hardiness.

Great stuff peren.all. I am learning lots.

I too have Elijah Blue and its been going strong for 5 years. Mine is in full sun, though, and in front of the Invincibelle Spirit I posted about before. However, it was under the Weeping Ceder until this spring, when we removed the WC, and the WC gave it a lot of shade. I will say that since it's gotten full sun, it's doing even better and looks very healthy. There are lots of seed heads on it this year too. I've been very pleased with it since we've had it here.

I have variegated Lirope and it is getting too much shade from a dwarf lilac that over took the area. The 4 Lirope are limping along and I'm leaving them there until we take out the lilac. It was here when we moved in and has gotten HUGE. It was planted next to the flag pole and now it looks like the pole is growing out of the middle of the lilac. The tag was still attached when we moved in and it said Korean Lilac, no name other than that. I had no idea they could get this big. We tried trimming it back one year but it grew back even larger. I'm hoping the Lirope will be happier with more sun, since they are completely in the shade now.

Linda

The only liriope I've had any luck with is the plain, unvariegated running kind. It came from a local arboretum. It seems to be good groundcover aggressive. It takes up space, spreads well, but doesn't seem all that able to compete with other established plants.

Elijah Blue seeds around a bit too much for my taste. We have a fescue lawn, and parts of it are turning a distinct blue color.

I am reconsidering...

In this bed in question, I think I will again do the border with annuals next spring but I will remove the water needy plants in behind e.g. "Wild Swan" Anemone and in their place put a a couple HAMELN Fountain Grass plants.

Further south Lirope is planted commonly as a border or ground cover. I have read stories of bad results and ugly plants in colder zones due to heavy winter kill. I'd hate having to look at that in spring because from what I read, recovery is very slow. I consider that a good thing because nothing is more boring or less imaginative than lirope being used as a border or ground cover down here. Its the #1 lazy, non-gardeners answer to all problem areas because its no maintenance so it is always part of the dreadful 'Lazy Garden Trio' seen so often here--Lirope, Vinca Major & Privet Hedge.

Blue fescue resents summer moisture, too much will kill it sure because that is its dormant period. It prefers infertile sandy soil and does badly in rich or clay soil. Another problem is grubs. If you live in a place with lots of June Bugs the grubs love to get under blue fescue and eat all the roots like ice cream. You can lift these dead looking plants out like hats and see the grubs. In my experience some fescue plants will do fine but some will always die so if its a border, you might end up with some 'missing teeth' in it. Its not terribly crazy about high humidity either. Its a short lived grass, unlike lirope which is (unfortunately down here) an un-killable, common, boring permanent plant unless you spend a long time digging the thick stuff out which is a real chore.

Acorus (Sweet Flag Grass) is a small cool season grass. There are several types, some are golden which would add brightness and another is variegated with white stripes making it very light in color.

I ordered 12 Autumn Sesleria last fall from SRG. I love this tough little grass. Its small with cute spikes topped with little seed heads and takes bright shade (down here), part shade and full sun. I am hoping to get some seedlings to form a larger area. There is also a smaller blue type called Blue Moor Grass. The plants I planted are remarkably uniform and neat. I made a good choice on that one (some of mine aren't).

There are several carex grasses that are great. Last fall I bought 15 Prairie Fire from SRG. They are very bright, evergreen and make a nice contrast color, I posted a photo on the combinations thread. Just because you are hot and dry this year doesn't mean its forever. I can grow these down here where we are always dry in summer in damp areas but some types will take some drought. Carex is becoming very popular in landscaping and there are a lot of colors & forms to choose from. I found some local native genotypes and have started a swath of them out back in dry shade.

tr2, amazing detail...thank you so much for this.

SRG has Pennisetum 'Little Honey' on sale right now for $3.99. Its pretty, compact & fuzzy with lots of seed heads for texture, cute as a button IMO. 'Little Bunny' is even smaller and cuter but those aren't on sale. 'Hamlyn' did well for me but its larger. All 5 plants died out mostly for some unknown reason in spring a couple years ago. Not sure what happened but they are gone now. I do see it planted in medians here along with other types of Pennisetum.

I'm sitting here contemplating ordering two more 'Red October' Big Bluestem at the moment before the new full fall prices set in to avoid waiting for the fall sale. The one I got last year is stiff and very vertical, starting to bloom and color up a bit. I'm also tempted to get more of the Autumn Sesleria grasses. Its doing so nicely and I haven't watered it once. I am beyond happy with the Prairie Fire carex. I like to just sit and admire it in the courtyard, its so colorful!!

'Little Bunny' is even smaller and cuter but those aren't on sale.

I always have like LB.

Have you seen this red sport of LB?

reddish "Little Bunny"

(Btw tr2, approximately how large did your Hameln get?)

I planted a group of three and the whole group was about 5ft across with the plants touching each other and about 2ft tall approx. The other two were isolated and about the width of a yardstick when in full bloom, minus maybe a few inches. They were substantial, thick plants. The diameter on the mature plants when trimmed in spring was about an 8 inch circle of stubble. Maybe grubs got mine? I have no idea but I did like them especially in late afternoon sun.

No I haven't seen the red sport. I think one dwarf type is variegated so its light.

One thing you need to take into consideration is whether to plant cool season grasses or warm season grasses. We have a very long warm season here and most native grasses are warm season types, OTOH, many invading weedy grasses are imported alien cool season types.

A few years ago when I was frequenting the O. Grass forum there was this guy who lived in Long Island who posted a lot, a kind of Grass guru type. His pennisetum grasses were only just starting to put up green growth when mine were already starting to bloom, add in our length of summer going well into October and the difference is dramatic in ornamental time.

Cool season grasses bloom much earlier but are often not successful down here with our long summers. They need more water here as a rule and go completely dormant in summer. They can look pretty sad.

I would love to grow Deschampsia grass but it doesn't like our kind of heat. You might consider it. I don't know how long a bloom period you would get with Pennisetum. It would be worth checking around your area to see what you will get in bloom time and how much down time you'd have. Warm season grasses will sit dormant on you until the soil warms up well and that might be a long period up there of just looking at a stump of last years dead growth, I don't know but its something to check out.

Deschampsia Pixie Fountain

Liriope is lovely in spring, summer, and fall; I don't pay attention to the "evergreen" claims for it - pretty much everything left standing looks ratty up here in the winter... I find it very neat and well-behaved, a nice green grassy-looking compliment to neighboring plants. I cut it back in the early spring just like I do perennial grasses - sprouts new foliage very quickly and doesn't miss a beat the rest of the season. Perfectly hardy where I am, never lost a clump in all these years. Didn't have any luck with the variegated liriope, though; what I have is the plain 'ol green L. muscari, and it's a workhorse.

Hi, It would be interesting to try the new Chinese grass, Phaenosperma globosa. Summer flowering.

Rouge, I just planted 'Burgundy Bunny'. But since it's only been a month, too soon to tell how well it will do. Assuming it's happy, I'll plant some more next year. Right now, it's just starting to flower. I choose it as an alternative to Japanese Blood Grass as the all green version is highly invasive and the red version can revert,

From the MOBOT site:

Imperata cylindrica, commonly known as cogongrass, is now considered to be one of the ten worst weeds in the world.

What a coincidence that you put in a "Burgundy Bunny"....small world with that internet ;).

(I wonder JBG is not invasive for me due to my location?)

I'll put up a picture of BB later, once I go back outside.

I would assume location would be the deciding factor. Supposedly, 'Rubra' (the "blood' grass variety) is sterile, however, there have been instances of it reverting back to the highly noxious green version, so in my area I wouldn't plant it as a precautionary measure. It is not illegal to sell in my state (New Jersey) as I do see it in nurseries.

Here you go Rouge:

Close up of Pennisetum 'Burgundy Bunny'. It just got its first bloom!

And a little further back, so you can see it with the Gaillardia 'Burgundy'

Here's the bloodgrass I finally got firmly established:

My slow to establish blood grass. If I supplemented water, I'm sure it'd do better.

Nice picture 'cat'!

The absolutely gorgeous tiny bright deschampsia 'Tatra Gold' - a little explosion of citrusy limelight.

Very pretty Campanula.

UPDATE:

I am not finished with this small bed but I have planted all the grasses

• 2 "Hameln" shown on either end (in bloom)
• 2 Carex "Ice Dance" in between

Lovely, rouge. You have an artistic touch! I'm so glad you started this thread. My daughter needs some landscaping redone and the dwarf grasses will work very well for her.

Linda

You are too kind as most of my 'touch' as you say is just physically fitting plants into a space. The more the better!

rouge, just a suggestion. I planted P. Hamlen one year and the plants were just about that size. The next year they all doubled in diameter. Judging how they look in the photo that one to the left might be too close to the sedge. Easier now than later. Same with the sedge, they doubled in size this year, the happy ones did that is. I have 4 needing a different spot. They will really let you know if they aren't happy.

Thanks for looking 'tr2'.

Is it possible that the one you think is a sedge so close to the left 'Hameln' is the sedge like looking one between that 'Hameln' and the white flowering begonia? That is actually a very small lily, currently non flowering and so looking very grass like! Yup, I got to find a new space for it :(.

Maybe so, it looked like a grass.

I don't know, I just keep planting them too close together after thinking there was plenty of space when I put them in the ground. They seem to grow so much the second year & I sure have moved my share of grasses due to this and hey, like I said, I thought I had plenty of space. The little rhyme goes like this:

1st year they sleep

2nd year they creep

3rd year they leap

More rain will make them bigger too. With all that May/June rain we got its like grasses on steroids this year so maybe next year they won't seem too close.

I'm psyching myself up to move a huge one coming up and will do some more editing later on. Now I have 3 new grasses I just got yesterday from SRG and I'm taking the yardstick out with me to plant them and adding a few inches. If that's not enough to worry about, I read 2 different mature sizes online so I am using the larger size to determine centers when I plant them.

Maybe so, it looked like a grass.

Here it is now with those grass like daylilies now moved elsewhere (right now in a bucket till I figure where to put them in the ground).

(And next year the border of annuals will be planted as close as possible to the stone edging providing a bit more space to these grasses)

I don't know, I just keep planting them too close together after thinking there was plenty of space when I put them in the ground.

Yup. Me too and most everyone else in this forum. ;)

UPDATE (too soon?):

I am hoping it is still too early as I see no sign of life for either of the two Hameln.

Fountain grasses are slow to green up. Mine are barely showing color. Did you give them a haircut? You should do it now. As low as you can. Scalp them. I have 'Piglet', 'Little Bunny', 'Burgundy Bunny', 'Karley Rose' and orientale. I love them.

Both of my second year "Hameln" look like this right now. Will the crown ever fill in?

Rouge, how are your Hamelns doing? I'm trying to decide between it and Red Head. It will be my first pennisetum.

Hello 'mayflowers'. I probably removed these Hamelns not long after my above post as neither showed signs of vigor through June.

Oh that's too bad. Have you given up on grasses now? I've only grown hakone grass and it's such an easy-care plant.

We love our Carex "Ice Dance" and Hakone "All Gold"...I will keep my eyes open for more.

I bought three Carex Frosted Curls last spring but they haven't put on any new spring growth. Maybe because we've had a very cold and wet spring in Oregon. They're full of dead leaves that don't rake out like they claim they do.

I found Carex Bowles Golden last year and it's turning into my favorite. To my surprise I like it better than Hakone.

Thanks 'Stephanie' for the recommendation re "Bowles Golden". I had read that it requires some consistent moisture to be successful. Do you see this with your specimens?

Hmmm. No, not really. The bed is planted with hostas, ferns, heuchera and other shade plants and it requires less than the hosta did. Last year was super hot and dry and I didn't see it decline as bad as the hostas.