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Is this fireplace surround original to our 1918 Foursquare?

Jenny H.
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

My husband and I are in the process of rehabbing a 1918 American Foursquare in Tampa, FL, which we hope will be our forever home. Our goal is to retain/replace as much of the original charm and character as possible while personalizing it to our needs and the way we live. We're so dedicated to this goal that we're willing to keep original details we don't find particularly aesthetically pleasing if they are original to the home. All that to say, do you think think this fireplace mantle and tile are original to the home? The brass fireplace cover is absolutely staying, but the surround seems so out of place in the otherwise colonial-leaning home. The LAST thing we want to do is remove the original character. Thoughts? Let me know if you need any more info/detail and thank you in advance for any insight!

Comments (41)

  • emmarene9
    8 years ago

    What is the white part made from?

  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Hello! It is made from wood, covered with a high gloss white paint.
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  • User
    8 years ago

    If the house is "Colonial-leaning" that may have happened after the house was built.

    The surround and tile are very much in character for that era, which was heavily arts and crafts and craftsman influenced.Especially if that surround is oak.

    Remember, "four square" is just a floor plan ... I've seen Spanish Colonial, colonial, arts and crafts and opther decor styles all in a four-square layout.

  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Thanks so much, lazy_gardens! Yes, we were a little confused by it, too. Our Foursquare is surrounded by early 20th century craftsman bungalows - so a very arts and crafts era neighborhood - but our house originally had cylindrical, non-tapered columns, a front door with oval glass and other characteristics that feel much more colonial than craftsman. Maybe it's just a mash up of the two? Colonial on the outside but arts and crafts inside? Is that common? Here are a couple historic photos of the exterior, for your reference (the original columns were replaced with 50s wrought iron so we're in the midst of replacing them).
  • emmarene9
    8 years ago

    What do the base boards and doors look like? Do you have any pictures of the wrought iron? I am a fan of it. I agree of course that you return the porch to its virgin look. The surround just seems oddly art deco to me. What is the design on the cover?

  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Hi emmarena! The design on the fireplace cover is of a Victorian looking woman in a big hat and big dress. We're told its original.

    Baseboard are very clean-lined. About 8inches high with a beveled corner. Door casings are a simple 1x6. No detail. Not sure if that's original or not. Photos of original window moulding are below (unfortunately a lot has been torn out so this is what we're trying to match throughout), as well as a photo of our stairs.

    I also attached photos of the wrought iron, which was added in the 50s. If this was a 50s house, I would TOTALLY keep the wrought iron. Luckily there's a local architectural savage shop that is going to haul it off and save it for another owner!
  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    Wrought iron
  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I just got to the house and took a closer look at the fireplace cover. What I thought was a hat may actually be a basket and what I thought was a dress looks to be a pair of cherubs (???). Also took an additional photo of moulding.

  • Debbie Downer
    8 years ago

    I see what you mean about that mantel being kinda out of sync with the rest of the house - its that more chunky craftsman style vs what looks like more typical Victorian But it sure looks like it could be original & of the era. And those tile colors are very craftsmanish - typical of the era earthy browns/golds used typically in combination with rich dark colored woods.

    Try removing some of the paint with a heat gun or if its not adhered very well sometimes you can just slip a razor blade under a corner of the paint and have it come off in a sheet. If its shellac underneath, it will easily melt with a heat gun and the paint come off in a nice sheets. If its shellac over oak or beautiful old growth antique pine, and if the craftsmanship looks good .... then yeah, Id consider it original. If its just some ticky tacky low quality more modern pine that's always been painted and was shoddily cut and put together - then probably not. Hard to see that close up from the pictures!

    A lot of times houses aren't pure examples of just one particular architectural style. They can be mutts - a combination of various architectural fashions of the day. And like canine mutts they can have a sweet charm of their own!

    Jenny H. thanked Debbie Downer
  • emmarene9
    8 years ago

    Thank you for sharing your wrought iron. It is fabulous. I also want to thank you for the close up of your fireplace cover,

    The fireplace is beginning to grow on me. The goldish look of the cover and the bricks might look nice if the fireplace was a natural wood color.

    Is the mirror attached? I know you can't strip all the painted wood in your house but the surround really needs it. The one I found online was called Arts&Crafts/Mission style. The same person who added the wrought iron probably made the decision to paint the woodwork. Funny thing about the wrought iron, it will be vintage to the person who buys it. I hope you will share your progress with us.

    Jenny H. thanked emmarene9
  • Kathy Renick
    8 years ago

    Hello Jenny. I think you are doing the right thing to remove the wrought iron from porch. As for the mantle, it doesn't seem terribly inconsistent with the trim, stairwell etc. And the tile is probably original. If they had retiled, that lovely cover would likely have been removed. Are you planning to repaint the room? The tile would probably look better with a different wall color. ;-)

    Jenny H. thanked Kathy Renick
  • User
    8 years ago

    The plain trim is more Craftsman than colonial ... I think you had a bit of a mashup, which was/extremely common.

    http://www.thejoyofmoldings.com/craftsman-mission-style-moldings/

    Jenny H. thanked User
  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thank you all for your help! It seems we have a mutt, but we love her just the same. :) I just ordered a heat gun from amazon and will do a little investigating this weekend. I'll be sure to let you know what I find! I agree exposing the wood would make for a nice focal point in the room. I badly wanted to do a carrara marble slab surround, but if the tile is original I'll try to salvage it. My only concern is that much of the tile on the hearth is cracked and crumbling. Only about a quarter of the tiles are still in one piece. I'll try to find a match at our local salvage yards.

    @emmarene, the mirror is attached. I love it! I believe the heat from the fireplace damaged the mirror, but we will try to take it somewhere to get it re-silvered.

    @Kathy Renick, what? You don't like the pepto bismol pink wall color?! haha Yes, I CAN NOT wait to take a paint roller to every pink wall in the house!!


  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    One last question for all you helpful GardenWeb-ers. Since you're now familiar with the trim we have in the rest of the house and that we live in a neighborhood filled with craftsman bungalows... would it be totally sacrilegious to replace the wrought iron columns with square, non-tapered columns rather than the original round, non-tapered columns? The reason we're considering this is because 1) we feel it ties all of the architectural details of the house together 2) we like the aesthetics of a square column better 3) it fits in better with the neighborhood and 4) my husband is an amazing wood worker and cam make them himself out of solid wood rather than having to purchase fiberglass "wraps" (i.e. higher quality, more period-appropriate material). Thoughts??

    Photo 1 - original

    Photo 2 - current

    Photo 3 and 4 - proposed, other houses in our neighborhood





  • PRO
    L'esperance Tile
    8 years ago

    On the tiles for the fireplace. It looks like some of the tiles in the facade are loose. If you look at the back of the tile, there may be die marks that would identify the company who made them which would help to date them.

    I think the tiles may be original.

  • Tim Kelley
    8 years ago

    From the original photos I would say Neoclassical Revival also called Southern Colonial (this style is called Neoclassic Revival in the Gulf South). The fireplace you have is Arts & Crafts and could be original, although it doesn't quite match the architecture of the home. The mantel photo emmarene posted above is Neoclassical and would go better (it isn't Arts & Crafts, despite what the description said). You can find many mantels on eBay, there's no reason not to upgrade mantels if you want to.

    I think the house would look much, much better with the steel removed and the original Doric columns put back.

    Jenny H. thanked Tim Kelley
  • emmarene9
    8 years ago

    You would fit right in to the neighborhood with wooden posts. Now that you know the house is Neoclassical Revival you may want to try keeping it in that style. I think the pediment and round pillars are a part of what makes it Neoclassical. Obviously the builder could not stay with one style, why should you? Replacing with round pillars is a commendable goal but it may not be practical. I wish Tim had said something about the fireplace cover.

    Jenny H. thanked emmarene9
  • Tim Kelley
    8 years ago

    You have to keep in mind this house was built between 1895-1920 - right? At that time Neoclassical Revival or Southern Colonial and Arts & Crafts/Craftsmen were competing styles, and there is always some crossover, if only due to what trim and building materials were available to the builders at the time. So it is very, very common to see houses predominately of either style architecturally but with interior or accent elements of the other. No big deal. The trim pics you posted could be either, really. They aren't really explicitly Craftsmen at all. If you paint them they will have a more formal, classical appearance, and if stripped, they will be cozy and Arts & Crafts.

    Actually the pics you posted from your neighborhood are not A&C bungalows at all. They're all neoclassical with A&C elements, in my opinion. True A&C will have square columns fatter

    at the bottom. Here's some true A&C:



    And one in the middle ...


    Neoclassical ...



    Jenny H. thanked Tim Kelley
  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    @Tim Kelley - thanks so much for your guidance! I would have NEVER guessed Neoclassical when looking at the front of our house, but after a quick Google search I can certainly see it. The majority of homes in our area are true arts & crafts bungalows - modestly sized with low slung roofs, heavy brick facades, tapered columns, huge front porches and built-ins galore. There are only a few two-story foursquare homes, including ours and the two I shared earlier. I'll have to share with those neighbors that our homes are Neoclassical Revival - I'm sure they'll be as intrigued as we are!


    Based on your guidance, I think we are going to replace the wrought iron with wooden Doric columns, rather than the square columns we originally planned to use. It's double the price, but worth it to us to restore the integrity of the home. We're still debating whether or not to "upgrade" the fireplace. :)


    @L'esperance Tile Works Inc - We removed one of the fireplace tiles and, unfortunately, there are no die marks or date stamps on the back.

  • dirt_cred
    8 years ago

    As lazy_gardens said, authenticity in old houses can be a flexible thing and houses weren't necessarily churned out en masse in very large numbers, all adhering to limited designs. The early 20th may have been transitional in many areas, style trends not necessarily perfectly consistent across the country.

    That mantle may be part of your house's original personality. I do think it wouldn't have been painted in 1918. The color of the tiles seems authentic AC but is the size? That seems more modern to me. I think carrera would be out of place but I don't know that I'm that well versed. You can get very nice AC tile styles.

    And it's a beautiful house!

    Jenny H. thanked dirt_cred
  • sheilajoyce_gw
    8 years ago

    That fireplace mantle will look so much better if the paint is stripped. In the '50's, everyone started painting all the woodwork to give their homes a more modern look. I remember Dad saying none of the oak casework in our ca. 1900 house would ever be painted while we lived there. Smart man. I love the plan to replace the wrought iron columns. It will make a striking improvement.

    Jenny H. thanked sheilajoyce_gw
  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    @sheilajoyce_gw - Funny enough, I'm in the process of stripping it, thanks to all the encouragement I received here. :) It's oak and was previously stained a rich, dark color which really brings out the grain. There's also an area on each side of the mantle that's not stained and must've had sconces on it - you can still see the very ornate outline left behind from them. I'll snap some photos the next time I go to the house. Perhaps you all can help enlighten us as to what might've been there before the fireplace was painted!

  • dirt_cred
    8 years ago

    sheilajoyce_gw & Jenny H - as a very young kid in the late 50s- early 60s (b. 1949) growing up in a 1911 kind of worker's house, I and my younger brothers and sister got corralled by mom to strip all the woodwork in the house - staircase & window & door casings - using strip-eze - back when it was super toxic. And I have no memory of gloves being involved at all. We counted 9 coats of paint on the stairway. (Mom did the turned spindles herself.)

    In 1965 we moved to a 1913 arts & crafts bungalow where all the oak woodwork - this time with plentiful built-ins. They had all been blonded - very sophisticated in the 40's & 50s you know. She took all that off herself using LYE & A WIRE BRUSH!

    Yet somehow she always wanted wall-to-wall on the oak & maple floors. In the 2nd house they used long staples all over the surface of the carpet which we took out a few years ago. Those staples weren't going anywhere and had to be ground down by the refinishers.

  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    @callights - thank you for the encouragement. I get so caught up in respecting the history of the home that its easy to lose sight of what WE want versus what the house wants. We're still working to find that balance and I like your and your wife's thought process very much. @dirt_cred - how nice to have free labor!! ;)

  • callights
    8 years ago

    Exactly. I think, in the end, you'll be happiest with choices that fit the style of your house and neighborhood precisely because they feel "right" in context. But at the end of the day, you're the ones who have to live there... not the people who lived there for the last 100 years.

    Jenny H. thanked callights
  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Hi all - An update for those who have chimed in and offered advice along the way. Here is the fireplace mantel mid-scraping! It appears to be previously stained oak, but I'm a little perplexed by the construction. It's built out of a series of 1x's rather than solid wood. Was this typical back in 1918 or is it indicative of more recent construction?



  • emmarene9
    8 years ago

    Thank you for the update.

  • User
    8 years ago

    It was typical of the inexpensive houses of the era. Saved shipping expense too.

    Some went one step cheaper and had composite and paper mache surrounds. My BIL was deconstructing a San Francisco post-earthquake house and the fireplaces crumpled because all the were was paper and paint.

    Jenny H. thanked User
  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    I just came across your post & I don't even know where to begin!

    First...congrats on getting such a beautiful home! The old house lover is a special breed, so we get it! :0)

    That fireplace surround is beautiful & I'm also guessing it's original. Mine was gone when I got my place & I have a single, albeit thick, board across the brick at the top.

    We have VERY similar entry doors & sidelights.

    We've also got very similar window, baseboard and door trim:

    I'm thinking & seeing some heavy Craftsman influences in your place for sure.

    Even tho mine is considered Craftsman, it's also a mutt. I have light fixtures that border on a cross between Deco & medieval! I know they're original, but it's one of those "WTH"? things. But...I'd never get rid of them.

    Trying to keep things original/period correct/and pleasing to you is a balancing act. The fact you love the old place & the architecture & the quirks that come with it speaks volumes.

    My bathroom had plaster walls scored to look like subway tile. It was failing horribly in the tub/shower area. Since it couldn't be saved, I had it removed & the entire bath was done in white subway with gray grout & black bullnose. Replaced 80's vinyl floor with a matte black hex floor. Kept old tub, toilet, etc.

    Is that bathroom original? No. Is it period correct? Yes. Plus, it was MY design choices for tile & color. The balancing act.

    Save what you can, do what you must. (please, please, please...never remove original wavy glass windows!!!) :0)


    Jenny H. thanked bungalowmo
  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    On a side note....I've thought about starting a thread called "Show off your Pepto"!

    Seems every old house owner has that *one* space that had been painted a hideous PINK! For me...someone meticulously painted inside my kitchen cabinets a really nasty pink!

  • dirt_cred
    8 years ago

    Oh but bungalowmo - if you have an original pink bathroom PLEASE keep it intact. One of the major offenses on HGTV & DIY is ripping out old bathrooms of any color, especially pink, and replacing them with the same ole subway tile and gray 18xwhatever tiles. Don't get me wrong, I love subway tiles and gray is my favorite color but those old colored bathrooms are A Thing, a definite style statement and should be preserved!

    http://savethepinkbathrooms.com/

  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    Oh...I never would have done that! Ever!

    Just a couple shots of my before & after bath. Someone did an "update" in the 70's or 80's. Removed original sink & put in cheap sears POS, also put in vinyl floor. (over, I believe, 4 layers of floors past)

    Old Yuk!

    New Old Bath:

    Not finished here, but much better than before.

    Jenny H. thanked bungalowmo
  • dirt_cred
    8 years ago

    Nice job, bungalowmo - and I agree it was desperately needed! My bathroom sink is almost the same - less of a back, though.

  • Kristen Pessell
    8 years ago

    Bungalowmo - how pretty. We want to do the subway tile in our old bathroom too, was it hard to do?

  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Bungalowmo - Wow, I definitely see the similarities, as well! But wish our front door came with that stained glass - gorgeous!! We've found that ours is a mix of craftsman, colonial and victorian influences. But that's what makes her so interesting and we fully intend to keep her quirks intact. :) ESPECIALLY those wavy glass windows - my DH is taking the kitchen windows out right now to restore, re-cord and repair a little wood rot, then will pop them back in. He's doing it one window at a time until he makes it through the entire house. Bless his heart. :)

  • Jenny H.
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Progress pic. The termites did a number on our original wood siding back here, but we're patching in a perfect match we found at a local lumber yard. Thankfully they never made their way to the more structural wood! Those holes are where the restored windows will live.

  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    Jenny....my stained glass is fake! I got the rolls at lowes!! Cost maybe $40 to do it all!

  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    So happy you're restoring your windows. I got my instruction from a pro online. I highly suggest "Sarco Type M" putty! Sets much faster than any dap product!

  • bungalowmo
    8 years ago

    Kristen.....thanks so much!!

    i didn't do mine, my neighbor is a tile guy. This room was tiled nearly 5 years ago. Looking back, I now wish I'd have chosen a little more decorative trim & I also would have chosen thinner spacers. But, I'm still happy I chose the dark grey grout. All white just was a little too stark for me.

  • Kristen Pessell
    8 years ago

    I think the grey is a nice touch but I see what you mean about the spacing. I'll have to look back at this when we tile the bathroom next year.