OOPS Bill I didn't tell you everything. The 1/4" is for inside the niche so it will be next to 2 X's. The other 1/4" place is on a narrow wall (8" wide) and it is completely covered with 3/4" plywood. I am using 1/2" Durock for all 16" spans. 1/2" is the only Durock I have found here. And thank you Bill and all for such quick responses.

I think Mongo said it best about that I should just leave it to my own pages. This I think is the best advice to date. I have a bad habit of stirring the pot online of late and I am going to curb my drive and take it down several levels going forward. These men here coming down on me are doing so because it is the right thing to do - for you and you and you. I think the name calling should be stopped and feel this is not right. These men are protecting you from bad advice - I respect that. I of course did not mean to give it and realize now in hind sight that it was in fact foolish of me leave such a short and incomplete post. I can't take it back but I can improve going forward. I still think cross posting is wrong and few have offered their opinion on the subject as yet. I'll preach on my own pages and work on helping here when I can. I'm sorry to subject you all to my private goals and will spare you my preaching going forward. Thanks again for all the advice - I do appreciate it. Sorry for the disturbance in these friendly pages. I apologize mostly to Bill and to all who suffered through my posts... John Whipple

You asked if this can be fixed without removing the tub. Yes. It would be a matter of removing the cement board with the attached tile from above the tub. Unless this is the world's worst tile job, that tile isn't coming off the cement board any time soon, so it all goes together. You may cry, but they need to take a hammer to your new tile to get at the board underneath. It's unlikely that there is cement board down behind the tub. Most tubs (all?) are designed to be installed next to the studs. For the bit of wall in front of the tub, they use a skinny piece of cement board to cover that space. Do you need to remove showerhead, etc.? Sort of. You need to unscrew the fixtures from the underlying plumbing pipes and cap the lines until the work is done. Not a big deal. That tubs and showers need to be waterproofed as StoneTech described is not something known only to those in the know. The 18 year old kid in the tile isle at HD knows this, I know this, there is no way a contractor doesn't know this. My guess is 1) someone forgot to staple up the poly, which is a cheap and quick job, before they hung the cement board and they decided to forget it, or 2) he took a short cut and figured he'd be gone before you discovered the wall damage. In any case, you have a problem. Yes, the whole tile job needs to come down and done over. Having just done this same job (DIY) in our own bath, I would suggest that Kerdi is overkill for a tub enclosure, but you can if you want. We hemmed and hawed and finally went with HydroBan, but the poly is also acceptable. Grout and cement board are both permeable - there has to be a barrier. If all is right in the world, your contractor owes you for demo, materials, and re-do.

tcull-- you're in Mass, and according to Mass pl;umbing codes, that copper pan is fine. I just did some work last week down on Cape Cod, and got a chance to talk to the plumber on the job. The way he explained it to me is that Mass follows outdated plumbing codes, basically to "cow-tow" to the unions. The reason I knew you were in the northeast is because we're the last place in the country that still allows for copper pans, and it's still wrong. It's not the copper, although that doesn't help (cement corrodes it, believe it or not). The reason is twofold. First, as I already mentioned, it doesn't allow for weepholes at the base of the drain, which means water that gets through the tile and grout will sit in the pan, until it's full, and then it'll start seeping down the drain. This gives mold, mildew, bacteria, etc. a perfect breeding ground to get a running start. Secondly, all copper pans I've ever seen are flat bottomed. The membrane, whether it be copper, rubber, CPE, ABS, whatever-- must be pitched at the same rate as the finished floor-- 1/4" per running foot from the furthest point of the drain, so that water that gets through the tile and grout will follow gravity to the weepholes, thereby allowing the whole assembly to dry out. I asked the plumber if he'd even heard of the Uniform Plumbing Code, and he said of course, but he was bound the the state code. Here's the Uniform Plumbing Code, though, as it pertains to sloping the membrane: Uniform Plumbing Code related to shower pan construction. "412.8 When the construction of on-site built-up shower receptors is permitted by the Administrative Authority, one of the following means shall be employed: (1) Shower receptors built directly on the ground: Shower receptors built directly on the ground shall be watertight and shall be constructed from approved type dense, non-absorbent and non-corrosive materials. Each such receptor shall be adequately reinforced, shall be provided with an approved flanged floor drain designed to make a watertight joint in the floor, and shall have smooth, impervious, and durable surfaces. (2) Shower receptors built above ground: When shower receptors are built above ground the sub-floor and rough side of walls to a height of not less than three (3) inches (76 mm) above the top of the finished dam or threshold shall be first lined with sheet plastic*, lead* or copper* or shall be lined with other durable and watertight materials. All lining materials shall be pitched one-quarter (1/4) inch per foot (20.9 mm/m) to weep holes in the subdrain of a smooth and solidly formed sub-base. All such lining materials shall extend upward on the rough jambs of the shower opening to a point no less than three (3) inches (76 mm) above the top of the finished dam or threshold and shall extend outward over the top of the rough threshold and be turned over and fastened on the outside face of both the rough threshold and the jambs. Non-metallic shower sub-pans or linings may be built-up on the job site of not less than three (3) layers of standard grade fifteen (15) pound (6.8 kg) asphalt impregnated roofing felt. The bottom layer shall be fitted to the formed sub-base and each succeeding layer thoroughly hot mopped to that below. All corners shall be carefully fitted and shall be made strong and watertight by folding or lapping, and each corner shall be reinforced with suitable webbing hot-mopped in place. All folds, laps, and reinforcing webbing shall extend at least four (4) inches (102 mm) in all directions from the corner and all webbing shall be of approved type and mesh, producing a tensile strength of not less than fifty (50) psi (344.5 kPa) in either direction. Non-metallic shower sub-pans or linings may also consist of multi-layers of other approved equivalent materials suitably reinforced and carefully fitted in place on the job site as elsewhere required in this section. Linings shall be properly recessed and fastened to approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for the wall covering and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point which may be less than one (1) inch (25.4 mm) above the finished dam or threshold. An approved type sub-drain shall be installed with every shower sub-pan or lining. Each such sub-drain shall be of the type that sets flush with the sub-base and shall be equipped with a clamping ring or other device to make a tight connection between the lining and the drain. The sub-drain shall have weep holes into the waste line. The weep holes located in the subdrain clamping ring shall be protected from clogging. *Lead and copper sub-pans or linings shall be insulated from all conducting substances other than their connecting drain by fifteen (15) pound (6.8 kg) asphalt felt or its equivalent and no lead pan or liner shall be constructed of material weighing less than four (4) pounds per square foot (19.5 kg/m2). Copper pans or liners shall be at least No. 24 B & S Gauge (0.02 inches) (0.5 mm). Joints in lead pans or liners shall be burned. Joints in copper pans or liners shall be soldered or brazed. Plastic pans shall not be coated with asphalt based materials."