Maybe too much N (Nitrogen) in your soil ?

What kind of tomato stem hooks did you use ?

Using cages you should prune here and there for better air circulation.

Can we see some pictures ?

Hi njit,

"This season I have been letting all of my plants grow wild since I had
the tomato stem hooks. Well, I'm beginning to think that this was not
such a good idea because AFAIK I should be seeing more fruit than I am
currently seeing. I have tons of lush (inter-twined in some cases)
foliage but not much fruit."

I'm really doubt you are making an apples-to-apples comparison when you compare one season to another since as you know many factors can cause a better or worse harvest. Many have had a hot season which has lowered production for some growers this time around (like me). Have you reused the soil for example too, are typical troubleshooting questions when things don't measure up or more disease shows.

Even if everything looks ok, warmer weather can cause more foliage growing which can unbalance the nutrients getting to the fruits and possible contribute to the BER, which I don't see at the moment could have been caused by letting them grow "wild". I'm not sure I know what wild means in this context, but it seems to mean simply that you did not prune lower branches.

On the question to prune specifically lower branches, I never prune them unless they show disease or discoloration (which they almost always eventually eventually do). But it does sound like you have a tomato jungle and if there has been a lot of rain and humidity and you couldn't see the tomatoes, I think you probably have an unnecessarily high leaf:fruit ratio so it probably wouldn't matter and in this case be a good idea to open up and get some air circulation before you loose any tomatoes to molds and fungi ... and pick them a little earlier after blush rather than allowing them to get mature color or soft. I wouldn't have that pruning you did last year just to see my lower tomatoes, though it can be psychologically pleasing to see all those plump maters on naked stems :-), they'd look naked to me. In the end you had a great harvest last year, and with good common sense... clearly you didn't do anything wrong and the weather cooperated! I'd follow your inclinations again and hopefully you get to put all those hooks to work.

Cheers

PC

PC wrote: > On the question to prune specifically lower branches, I never prune them...

I never prune lower branches (suckers) either.

When you keep removing lower leaves / branches because they are yellowish / brownish, and not useful anyway to the plant, those lower branches (from suckers) will provide not only food but also shade for the fruits. (See sunscald.)

Without those lower / mid branches, in mid / late-season, my "jungle" would have 3-4 leaves on the top (12-15 ft. high), which - obviously - will not be able to feed 10 or, much less, 100 tomatoes. Been there, done that !

I start suckers management early, when the seedlings are short.

I select the strongest suckers. I remove very few. One or two.

I never transplant seedlings shorter than 1 ft. so I can see clearly the suckers.

Agree with PC that it would be apples to oranges to draw any conclusions based on the two seasons as there are just far too many other variables. Don't know what you mean by tomato hooks but I suppose it is possible they may have contributed to the "jungle" appearance. But again so could many other variables.

In some ways it would be handy if all plants only developed their fruit on the outside edges of the plant where they are readily visible but they don't so the discovery of hidden fruit is more of a harvesting methods used issue than a pruning issue. Sure heavily pruned plants reveal more fruit but it also exposes them to sunscald and pests. So to avoid that we leave more foliage and carefully displace branches and look more closely when harvesting. Down on hands and knees and looking up into the cage from below often reveals fruit to be picked. But that depends on the type of cages used.

BER fruit are easy to spot early in the season as it shows up while the fruit are still small and green so they can be picked and pitched then. And there is some evidence that supports the claim that heavy pruning early in the season when the plant is already stressed may contribute to even more BER.

So basically the answer to your question is as always - it is your option but no, IMO you cannot draw the conclusion that not pruning is thereby the cause of your other issues.

Dave

imho, jungles are good: you have many branches, lot of foliage...

The only problem is, when you have a jungle, but you don't have tomatoes (fruits.)

Rarely this happens because of not pruning, most of the times is because of to much N (Nitrogen) in your soil.

That's why fertilizers with bigger N, than P or K (in the N-P-K) are not recommendable.

A soil test will tell you what your soil needs.

I use 5-1-1 mix with Dynamite CRF as directed. I re-used the 5-1-1 mix from last season (as well as made some new quantities) and the only thing I did with the old mix was recharge it with the Dynamite CRF.

Here are some pics as of today (from the garden):

It's not impossible to have a huge jungle and dozens - even hundreds - of fruits on one plant. Not easy, but not impossible.

Just ask Hudson (see the pictures bellow)

Yes, I agree, growing in a Greenhouse and in a pot, outside, is very different.

Here are the plants on the side of the house (with pepper and eggplant shots as well)....notice that the Mortgage Lifter is the tallest and has not a single piece of fruit.

a few more for good measure...

Between the 12 tomato plants I almost filled an entire garbage can with branches that were either showing some sign of disease, growing downwards, or intertwined with other branches. Prior to the cleanup I would have never guessed I had as much fruit as I had because a good amount of them were hidden deep within the jungle. The good news about the tomatoes being this late is that it works out for me quite well. We are leaving for vacation on Friday and it will take at least a week before any of these start to blush (except probably for the 2 cherry tomatoes). I am no longer regretting agreeing with my wife to take a vacation during the last week of July.

How big are those GeoPots ?

Me, I don't want to see my tomatoes; because if I can see them, sun will see them too (see sunscald.)

I prefer tomatoes to be covered by leaves that will provide food and shade. But that's me...

Do you have pictures of your "jungle" before prunning ? Could you please post them ?

Did you have many lower branches (suckers) that you removed ?

They are 20 gallons each (tomatoes and eggplant).

Daniel, I think the inverse of being obscured from the sun is what led me to have to toss about a dozen or so fruit away due to BER which was likely due to lack of air circulation.

I'm all for removing sick and damaged branches and leaves but not healthy growth just to make the fruit more obvious. No way I could get away with that much exposed fruit here. With my sun exposure most everyone of those exposed fruits in your first set of pics would end up pitched due to sunscald and rotten shoulders. Hopefully your garden has much more shade available for them than mine does.

Dave

<BER which was likely due to lack of air circulation.>

Huh? BER caused by lack of air circulation? Nope.

Blossom-end Rot in Tomatoes: Causes and Prevention

Your plants look well managed, to me. But lack of fruiting can have different causes. Being crowded out can be one of them.

I do prune and also use 5-1-1 mix in pots.

In pots you have to manage the top. Not just the lower leaves/branches need to be removed , further up also need to be lightened up to have some air space. Obviously you cannot let a plant like Mortgage lifter to grow as it wishes in a pot. I am only growing dwarfs in pots. Even sometimes I do light pruning on some of them.

In the ground it is different and mostly depends on plants spacing and support system. Even then some pruning can facilitate air movement, not just at lower level but even between the branches.

Pruning, IMO, is an interactive gardening, as opposed to passive "Do Not Prune It !" style.

Sey

Sey, your tomatoes are exposed to DIRECT sun too ?

I don't think ANYBODY in this forum said: "Do Not Prune It ! [AT ALL]"

I think most of the "not pruning" fans, DO prune:

- yellowish / brownish leaves / branches (not only those at the lower level, but in mid / late-season, mid / upper leaves / branches)

- branches (here and there, IF necessary) to improve air circulation.

The "problem" is that most of the "not pruning" fans, do not remove suckers ( "healthy growth" how Dave call them)

Sometimes suckers have more tomatoes than the main stem(s.)

Daniel,

By pruning, I mean plant growth size management.

Just take a look at your picture above.

From every leaf node one shoot is growing. So if the inter node is , eg, 8 inches, you will get like 8 side branches just up to 5 ft from the ground plus natural forking. And after a while some of those branches each will have their own side branches. So you will end up with a geometric progression of number of branches, creating a jungle-like situation in a short time.

So really, removing some lower leaf branches is not a real pruning, in my view. I realize that both schools (To prune, not to prune) are personal styles and choices and I have no objection to that. YMMV

Sey

Sey, in the previous years I went from HEAVY pruning to very, VERY
little pruning.

Last year – for the first time – I tried Mr. Charles Wilber’s “18
branches” technique. And it worked for me. Well, until mid / late August,
when things went out of hand, but it was no problem; on contrary.

Here is Mr. Charles Wilber’s book: How to Grow World Record Tomatoes: A Guinness Champion Reveals His All-Organic Secrets.

Two threads about it:

- Charles WIlber's (How to Grow the World Record Tomatoes)

- Mr. Wilber's "18 branches" technique.

Some short descriptions of the method:

"Proper Pruning: The magic number is 18 branches. For the optimal yield,
six lower suckers are allowed to grow and split once (12 branches) while two
upper suckers are each allowed to split into three (six more branches). Pinch
off unwanted suckers twice a week." [ World-Record Tomatoes ]

"His ideal
plant has 18 branches. The lower 6 branches are allowed to split once for a
total of 12 branches. The top two branches are allowed to split three ways each
for a total of 6 branches. As each branch develops, it is led to the outside of
the cage and trained to grow upward. Suckers that grow on the 18 branches
should be pinched off if the branch is weak." [ Just A Pinch Grows Tomatoes Tall ]

"Charles
Wilber set several world records for tomato size and production. His secret –
keep the plant nourished, watered, and stress free. He also determined that 18
branches were the secret to his success.

Some
growers say that anything other than the main branch is sucking the life out of
the plant (hence the name ‘sucker’). This is not true. Wilber discovered that
for his variety, 18 suckers was the magic tipping point. Anything more reduced
production. Anything less had less production." [ Don’t waste those suckers ]

I didn't get "28-foot, 7-inch-tall" toma­to, like Mr. Wilber, but I'm sure I had some vines 20+ ft. My crop was much, MUCH smaller than Mr. Wilber's, but I keep learning things.

As you can see in the picture bellow, on the frame on the right - 16 ft. wide x 12 ft. high - the tomatoes rich 13-14 ft. Then I directed them horizontally and they grew almost 10 feet more.

Here you go. As I said there are various schools of growing tomatoes.
Mr Wilbers is One. Here is some pictures of something called "French
Pruning"

Wow, never realized things could be so complicated with tomatoes.

I hope I didn't do the wrong thing (which I still can't figure out what is). As I previously mentioned I only cut those branches that were either showing some sign of disease, growing downwards, or growing inwards and intertwined with other branches growing inwards. Not a single branch that I cut had flowers on them (but don't know how important that is).

Guess I was wrong about the cause of the BER. Thanks for correcting me. The only ones that had BER were those closest to the middle of the plant so I assumed it was due to lack of air circulation.

Now.....would it be a true statement to say that my plants need less frequent watering after the pruning job?