Oh, and I water every day thoroughly with a hose at the base, trying not to spray the leaves. It's been really hot here, and I use a water meter - they actually do drain well in that 24 hour period. They are not sitting in water as far as I know. There is miracle grow plant food shake n' feed throughout the garden, but the rose is the only one experiencing this, so I don't think it's related. Furthermore, the rose bands have no miracle grow. I wasn't going to fertilize the bands at all until they are established.

I think this DA rose got too much love. A new plant trying to stretch out roots.

I think gardening is patience. Unfortunately simulated results of a hurricane remnants coming through area. And also the toxic chemical completed the event. On the David Austin website it says to water weekly. Also there is mycorrizae there on the website.

Artificial fertilizer is a chemical salt that kinda cloggs the soil and changes the biology too. I think to water every day kind of floods the soil and suffocates the bio life so that the anaerobic biology take over which are the disease fungi. Also, There is a small amount of chlorine in that water. Everyday is ok for the first week until leaves come out but a month is too long.

To spray a fungicide is bad for the soil and pets. The spray is needed at this point due to the event in the soil. Until eventually the plant will die from winterkill and spray, 4" of wood mulch will finish it right off. Healthy soil is key. Life is in the soil. Time is needed to recover put back the life in the soil.

That is an English rose. It wants soil and rain conditions that it would get in England. A light prevention spray would be OK too make the leaves pretty. but at this point it makes things worse.

In New England, I don't think artificial water or food or spraying is needed. Maybe the local co-operative ext can help.

Every thing that plant needs is already there in the soil.

It looks like powdery mildew(PM). I use Bayer's fungicide when the temp is high. There are other gardeners here just spray water for PM. I have never tried to spray water for PM because I garden after work at night.

Thank you for your advice, Sam, I am obviously a novice and appreciate all the help I can get. The daconil and neem spray were recommended to me last month by a master gardener with the New Englabd Rose society. I am not saying his word is the last word, just trying to explain my reasoning. Also, the neem was two weeks ago, so I don't know if that could be impacting it now.

I dont actually water every day, I meant that I check with the water meter every day and if it's dry, which it is 5 days out of 7, then I water. I live on a hill with very fast draining soil, and it has been so hot out.

I also don't think it's overwatering or the fertilizer since its the same problem on the rose bands that have never been fertilized ever and are in well-draining containers with water meters. The bands have also never been sprayed.

Bad news: It got progressively worse through the day yesterday. The leaves got more eaten and there is something eating the buds. There are black things in the buds, I should probably cut one off abs try to get a better look. Thanks for the tip about powdery mildew, summers rhythm. Maybe it's a pest and powdery mildew combined???

The white may be Daconil residue. Wash your rose foliage very thoroughly (both the tops and bottoms of the leaves) with a garden hose for three days in a row and see if this helps. And please don't spray anything else on the foliage - its tough to spray without burning the foliage in hot weather. Since you've been so careful to keep the foliage dry, your roses may have spider mites. Good luck.

I'll check out that specialist. Thank you. I just don't understand why the same thing is happening to the potted roses that have never been sprayed or fertilized. It's so frustrating. I'm sure it's a combination of things, but I wish there was a more clear-cut solution. But c'est la vie

Just in case it's relevant...the potted roses are Daybreaker and Cinco De Mayo. There is also a rose in the middle of my property that was here when I moved in. It's got the neem oil twice and has none of these symptoms. I don't know what variety it is, but it has orange flowers.

Looks like this bud has been chewed, and it's got weird black hairs coming from it.

Daybreaker bloomed this this morning with partially browned petals and tiny black bugs crawling inside. There was also a small spider in the flower. More and more things are just adding on to confuse me.

Some basics on northeastern rose growing:

The biggest problem is blackspot. That is what the Daconil was recommended to deal with. It is not a once-and-done thing, but has to be reapplied during the whole summer, according to the bottle directions. If susceptible kind of roses aren't sprayed regularly with some sort of fungicide, all of their leaves will fall off. The rose you inherited is probably resistant. Abraham Darby is not, though it will survive.

Bugs tend to show up when the roses first arrive, then good bugs come to eat the bad bugs. If you kill off the bad bugs, then the good bugs won't have anything to eat. Abraham Darby has some rose slug damage, but nothing too horrible. It's probably some kind of caterpillar eating the buds. Birds like most caterpillars, so they rarely become a big problem.

Were the band pictures taken with a flash? The color seems quite off, and I can't tell if it's the plant or the picture.

Most of the foliar symptoms appear to be spray burn or fertilizer burn--looks more like spray damage. Daconil is known to damage foliage in hot weather, and oil can also. A very effective rose fungicide that does not burn foliage is Bayer Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs containing ONLY tebuconazole. Apply every 2-4 weeks with a tank sprayer.

It is perfectly OK to use manufactured fertilizers--I have used them in my garden for 35 years. But excess of almost any fertilizer is harmful. Often potted roses come with fertilizer in the pots, and many bagged potting soils are pre-fertilized. Any additional fertilizer can be toxic to young plants.

Both fertilizer and spray burn are more likely if the plant is short of moisture. Follow labels for spray and fertilizer, measure accurately, and don't apply multiple fertilizers within the same labelled time period.

You can give the Abe two gallons of water twice a week. After it is established for a few months, give four gallons once a week in warm weather, somewhat less in spring or fall. New band plants can be watered every day or two--stick your finger in one inch deep and water 1/2 gallon if it is dry.

The plants will recover from the burned foliage by making new leaves, unless you kill them with kindness.

I don't know what is the black spot on a budding stem, but it is probably not going to be a recurrent problem.

Thanks MichaelG , you made me feel a bit better. If it was the daconil, then would the other rose not be burned because it is older? The other rose (not pictured) was sprayed twice and is in more direct sun, but it's not damaged. The rose that wasn't damaged is not in great shape, it was neglected in a bed of weed trees for five years, but it must have more established roots or something. Could that account for it?

also, I poked around the Abraham Darby again, I can't help myself, just to look under leaves for pests, and two small black flies flew out of the newly open blossom. Is that just a coincidence?

Yes, a plant with deep roots can find itself a more even supply of moisture, and that can protect against burn. If the Abe was transplanted a month ago into the garden, the roots are still like they were in the pot.

Another hypothesis about the bands is that the plants were horribly stressed by being shipped in midsummer heat and they are dropping their leaves. I've experienced that.

I would stop using the oil. There is no need for it, and it can be harmful. Just focus on maintaining an appropriate level of moisture (I don't trust your moisture meter) and being patient. ("First, do no harm.")

That makes sense about the roots... I mean it survived in it's weed forest unattended for years, it must have deep roots. The rose bands are not dropping leaves, it's just that two of the three have similar brown spots. They all have new growth as of this afternoon (the bands that is) so I'm hopeful.

i don't trust the water meter either. I use two different ones to confirm and my finger, lol, I'm sure I sound crazy. I will just keep a close eye on them all and leave them to their own devices.

Just a little two cents from me too, the first time I saw your pictures I thought overwatering and blackspot. Have you tried not watering for several days and then watering deeply then waiting several more days? The new growth is what you need to focus on to diagnose if your problem is fixed or not.

I've stopped using Daconil (unsightly residue) and don't use any oils, Neem or otherwise, because it fries leaves.

Good luck!

Chemical fertilizer feed the rose plant only and are more quick acting like if we ate a candy bar for energy...

Organic fertilizer feeds the rose plant but also feeds the soil like us eating good food that keeps our bodies as a whole healthy...

Some people combine the two... Like us eating a candy bar once in awhile...

I'm not trying to start a fight over organic vs. manufactured fertilizer, because both work fine. Soils need organic matter added every year, but that comes from the decaying mulch more than from fertilizer. The nitrogen and potassium that plants take up are in exactly the same forms whether they come from compost or from a factory--ammonium ions, nitrate ions, potassium ions. Organic nitrogen has to be converted by bacterial action to ammonium before plants can take it up. Organic nitrogen is slow-release, but so is some manufactured nitrogen fertilizer. Inorganic nitrogen can burn plants when used in excess, but so can blood meal or chicken manure. Organic fertilizers all have trace and minor elements, which can be particularly helpful in poor, sandy soils. But those are available in manufactured forms as well.

I recommend Rose Tone and alfalfa; I actually have a slight preference for organic fertilizers, but I have always used manufactured fertilizers at times. I just object to telling people that using manufactured fertilizer will ruin the soil or poison the plants, because that is not true if they are used as directed.

An exception might be the routine use of superphosphate when phosphorus is not deficient. This will disable beneficial mycorrhizae and can mess up soil chemistry.

I actually just topdress with homemade compost once per year and do not even use fertilizer anymore and the roses have done well... Everyones got to figure there own garden out as they can be different in various ways...

Heck since I removed the shredded wood mulch from under our roses over 2 years ago which was causing me troubles things have greatly improved!

So I hate to even recommend any one way of doing things since things can vary from area to area...

I forgot I have a 40lbs bag alfalfa in the garage. Do you mixed it with warm water or hot water? Don't remember what the horse man told me in the store. Will rabbits eat alfalfa? I already have rabbits issues in my garden, don't want all rabbits in my neighborhood come for dinner party.

Summer I just sprinkle tha alfalfa pellets around. Nobody comes to eat them, which really surprise me - not even outside the dog's area! They just slowly dissolve with rain/ watering.

Thanks Dingo! :-) I will sprinkle alfalfa pellets tomorrow.

Jeri, If you like neem oil, you might like Bioneem too.

Summer

I super super appreciate everyone trying to help. It really makes me feel like I am going to figure out a solution. I feel like my long-winded original post created confusion, so I want to make it clear that only 1 out of 3 infected roses has been fertilized. The rose bands are my precious babies and I have not ever fertilized them.

jerijen: I know that fertilizer is not good for young plants. None of the baby rose bands have any fertilizer. It is just the grafted Abraham Darby that was already blooming when I got it, and has bloomed another cycle since I planted it that was fertilized lightly with the shake n feed. All the roses show the same symptoms, regardless of if they have been fertilized or sprayed, which is why I am so confused. The timing does seem right on, though, for the Abraham Darby to have been negatively affected by the fertilizer (just a few days before this happened), but then I just don't know why the same issue is seen on the bands...

I also like neem, I use it on my kumquat, calamondin orange and meyer lemon, and I believe it saved them all from terrible spider mites and scale. I tried just picking them off and using water for months, but that didn't work. The neem cleared them up like magic.

michaelg: I definitely appreciate your balanced perspective. I am a scientist so I mainly think about things based on their ingredients. Nitrogen from cow poo is the same as nitrogen from a bottle of Foliage Pro. Chemicals are just chemicals, even organic cow poo is made up of chemical compounds. I am not trying to be intentionally obtuse, I know that isn't what people mean when they talk about "natural fertilizer", but I just think the emphasis should be on how accurately measured, diluted and gentle the fertilizer is. I'm also not trying to debate anyone, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspective, even if it isn't that popular, I do appreciate it.

I have a compost pile, use cow manure, etc, so I do understand its value, but I don't really think that a little sprinkle of miracle grow slow release pellets on just one of my plants caused all three to shrivel up. I know you aren't saying that, I am just reflecting on the topic. I could be totally wrong, and the miracle grow is the major culprit... that's why I'm here asking advice. I know fertilizer can be dangerous, that is why I was clear about using it in my initial post. Maybe it a problem, but it isn't the only problem.

msdorkgirl: Thanks for your perspective. I am so confused. I know I water a lot, and maybe i'm just super naive, but I really don't think it's overwatering. I test the soil with my hand every time before I water and it is dry dry dry. There have been many days that it felt slightly moist and I didn't water... I didn't water today just in case, even though it felt dry, but then most of my plants wilted and I felt like an idiot. I just don't really know what to do.

On the bright side: The one Abraham Darby bud that opened is beautiful, despite it's outsides being destroyed. That really cheered me up. It's essentially the first rose flower that I've ever grown. And the Cinco de Mayo and Daybreaker both had new buds open today. They are spotty on the outsides, but I'm still pretty thrilled. Now just hopefully it goes uphill from here...

mad_gallica Sorry, I didn't see your comment until now. That makes sense about a caterpillar or a slug. I have two daisies in the same garden and they get horribly eaten by something that takes big chunks out. The impatiens and lamb's ear don't get touched...

All the pictures were taken with my iPhone. The rose band pictures are a weird color, I see that now. They aren't as dark in real life as the AD, but they aren't strangely yellow like that. They are more of a medium green. New growth is red or green.

It does look like you have blackspot. Daconil is probably the worst of the chemical fungicides to use. It's harsher than the systematics and some roses really react badly do it. If you don't want to spray, just remove the damaged leaves. As far as fertilizer, a chemical fertilizer will supply nitrogen, but it will also add salts to the soil which can build up and it will do nothing for the soil. Organic fertilizers feed the soil and make it much more hospitable for the plant to uptake nutrients. A garden is not a test tube. But using Miracle Gro once in a while will not harm your roses.

Another thing to consider . . . Some roses are more, and some less, affected by blackspot.

Even in Southern California (where it's not a huge problem) 'Abraham Darby' will blackspot. So will its offspring, 'Golden Celebration.'

If I lived in an area with high blackspot pressure, I probably wouldn't choose to grow either of them.

As it is, we are going through an almost-unprecedented (but maybe more common in the future?) period of very high humidity combined with high temperatures. I fully expect major defoliation of our hedge of 'Golden Celebration' and maybe also of at least some plants of "Grandmother's Hat."

We can sort of ignore that, and wait for better conditions to return. But wow! If I had to deal with this weather most of the time?

I would be installing air conditioning, and re-assessing my rose choices.

Test ph too? How are the new growth on the roses? I'm addressing this mostly to the band rose, your Abe Darby leaves look nice and dark green, but the band one looked like it was struggling. Are the leaves normally supposed to be that light green?

Heat and humidity play a factor in wilt regardless of how hydrated roots are too (well in Hawaii hot sun anyway). Hence me tending to err on the side of dry rather than overwet to discourage canker, blackspot, etc.

But again good luck, and I enjoy reading the suggestions everyone posts so I can learn too.

http://www.houzz.com/user/mad-gallica I was wrong, the band leaves are actually light green/yellow. Now I'm even more worried. Some of their leaves are normal green, but the affected leaves are yellowish

http://www.houzz.com/user/msdorkgirl No I've never tested PH. I can tell you that hydrangeas in the ground nearby are very blue, so I imagine it's at least slightly acidic. I mixed composted cow manure into the whole bed, everything else there is doing well except the one daisy.

buford-ne-ga-7a: this morning I was doubtful about black spot because the leaves were not even slightly yellow, but now they are. Boy, is this distressing. I will try to take new pictures tomorrow.

I wish you the best of luck getting things figured out nat1611...

It can be distressing for a new rose grower. I remember my first roses and they were fine and then got blackspot. I didn't spray at the time and followed all the 'rules' about picking off leaves, etc. The bottom line is that roses will get blackspot if the conditions are right, no matter what you do. Right now in my yard, I haven't sprayed for almost 4 weeks and I only have it on a few roses. Because it's been very hot and relatively dry. When it gets cooler and wetter, it will come back. I will probably spray this weekend just to prevent a breakout if the weather does change. It's a lot easier to prevent than treat blackspot.

here is Cinco De Mayo today, it's the worst affected band

abraham Darby lost many of its yellow leaves, they were mostly from the back/ inside. Here it is today:

and a better angle of the spots where yellow leaves remain

the other Daybreaker band seems fine, but it is a pretty light color:

Nat, I am really concerned that you are going to kill your roses by constantly doing something to them. All they need is the correct amount of water and control of blackspot if it appears (I haven't seen it in your pictures). If you added manure to the soil, then you have fertilized for the season.

Look online at pictures of rose blackspot. Notice the shape of the spots and the fuzzy margins. If you find this on your plants, you can stop its spread with a fungicide containing only tebuconazole or propiconazole every 2-4 weeks. Blackspot will spread in summer after overnight wetting, or on drippy days in spring or fall. It requires long wetting with temperatures in the 60s and 70s.

michaelg

Thanks for your continued help. I don't know exactly what you are concerned about. I haven't done a single thing to them, except take pictures to note changes since I started this thread. I am not convinced about blackspot either, and accordingly, I haven't done anything to treat it.

People who worry too much about their plants sometimes hurt their plants by trying to fix them when they don't need any fixing :)

nat, I pulled a bunch of similar looking leaves off of my roses this morning. The older leaves will get yucky at some point. That's why you deadhead and groom roses. The new growth will come in and look better. These are baby bands and you can't expect them to look perfect all the time.