Here is a book I found online - Meloidogyne (root knot nematodes) on the biology, identification and control of said nematodes ... about 110 pages along with illustrations. Maybe you'll find something useful in it.?

Bkay, I so feel for you - I'd be sick too :(. You grow such beautiful hostas ... I hope that this is it and that no other hostas are affected. Hang in there, hosta-friend!

Here is a pic to cheer you... my "Bkay So Sweet"

I'm so sorry to read this Bkay :(.

Oh Crap! I never heard of that on hostas. I get them on my tomato plants because I have to plant them in the same place year after year. They really do make little galls on the roots that you can easily see, at least on large tomato plants. I minimize them by removing all the roots each fall and then leaving the area fallow until Spring. Nothing available here to kill them. Rotate crops they tell me, because they don't bother everything and will die off w/o roots to eat, but I don't want to ever have a summer w/o tomatoes.

NONE of that works for hostas. Since all yours are in pots it HAD to come from somewhere. They surely don't go from pot to pot if they live on the roots. (???)

I suppose that when any of your pots show a problem, wash off the roots and look for the galls. If you see them, dump the plant and sterilize the pot before you re-use it. IF not, bleach and pot up fresh.

Can your Ag people give you any idea of where they could come if you use bagged products to pot up plants? Which of those would have any root material in them?

Much sleuthing to do.

Hosta Diseases from Penn State

I'm so sorry,

-Babka

Here is a VERY informative link that I just found. The Root knot Nematodes eggs can be killed by a hard freeze. Can you rent a large freezer for while this winter? This article warns Northerners about the dangers of a mild winter.

They need a hard freeze Missouri Edu link

-Babka

so sorry!!!......keep the faith

The soil could have come already infected... Or spread from elsewhere by any garden tools, or introduced with a newer plant of any sort. Looks like they multiply rapidly and spread fairly quick. Not something we see up north here, very often.

I did some more reading on them....about sun solartization and adding ammonia compunds. But if it's happening in just the planters, it might be easier to control now that you know what it is, by elimination and heat treating\freezing the planters. I guess I would try to retrace my most recent steps first, and go backwards. Somehow see if I could figure out the potential main source and where it spread from there. If you don't already (I think you have mentioned you do in the past?) prevent cross contamination handling as you would for HVX.

I think I've isolated it to 2013 in the spring. I don't remember all the plants I potted or repotted that spring. However, the OBL and Elegans were both purchased that spring. The noid that I call Big Blue seems to have the problem and I know from photos that I repotted it that spring. Of the others, I can only assume that I worked on them that spring. That was the year I made my own potting soil. It almost has to be the potting soil. There doesn't seem to be any other common denominator.

Thanks, Babka. After two glasses of red wine, I feel much better. I'll read those tomorrow.

I found an article written by Keith Hansen, the extension agent of Smith County, in East Texas. He talks about nematodes in potted plants. He has also done hosta trials. He has root knot nematodes in his garden soil. He suggests keeping two sets of tools - one for pots and one for the native soil.

Yes, Smorz. I do prevent cross contamination in tools between hosta. I've had hvx, so I do not cut anything. It never occurred to me to prevent cross contamination of the potting soil scoop.

I was worried because I had found foliar nematodes in one plant, so I've been reading on treatments. It seems that nemakill was developed for root knot nematodes. A soil drench did a 100 percent kill on foliar nematodes in a hosta society trial. Most of those products are developed for agricultural application and are not available in home friendly sizes. I'm going to research both zerotol and nemakill. Both have resulted in 100 percent kill of foliar nematodes. If, after reading the literature, if either one seems plausible, I'm going to buy "the giant economy size" of it and treat all of my hosta for a couple of years.

Thanks, Jo for your support.

bk

I can understand that you are upset to discover the root knot nematodes. That would be so terribly disappointing. I hope that no more of your beautiful hostas are affected.

The articles Jo and Babka linked to are very interesting. I have never heard of this before. Thanks bk for sharing. As difficult as that is, you are helping to inform us all. Good luck.

bkay, I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble this year. Our hostas should be an enjoyable hobby, not filled with so much frustration. I hope you can find a way to save as many as you can in your collection. .....No wonder in one of the hail threads you said it could be worse.

you are not a shy person ...

how about a call to zillis ... he seems to be the current guru ... and he might guide you to someone in the society who can run with this ball ...

i would also consider an article to the journal ... about your findings ...

this is important to the society ...

you started all this.. knowing full well .. that being this far south.. you were on the cutting edge ... and that there were not going to be a lot of answers for the problems you might face ...

well.. you are facing them ... so lets bring others up to speed ... and pass the ball to them to run with ... if they wish ...

i think i once heard.. there are millions of nematodes in a teaspoon or shovel full of soil ... they are ubiquitous ... a great majority harmless or beneficial ... you will never be nem free ... but lucky you ... you found the minority .. crikey and carp ...

ken

ps: being a chef.. dont you have a huge walk in freezer ... lol ... i know walters gardens has huge drive in cold storage ... i could also refer you to clarence falstad there.. if you wanted to discuss chill and/or freeze ...

I am so very sorry!

zilis is in rockford, il area. also: bob solberg may have some hints. He is quite approachable. i like the freezer idea, too. Heck a house overhaul ain't complete 'til ya gots a nice chest (my choice) or upright freezer.

got a pix so we all know what to look for?

dkB

I"m off tomorrow, so will have time to mess with this.

I posted to Hallson's when I first figured out the bleach soak wasn't working.

http://perennialnursery.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60509&p=499688&hilit=diseased+hosta#p499688

bk

I really feel for you, bkay. Someone who works so hard at keeping her hostas healthy shouldn't have to go through this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the freezer method or the nemakill will work for you. Thanks for keeping us informed.

The freezer is not a practical solution. I'd need at least a 6X8 walk in freezer, which I don't have. The health department would frown on finding a walk in full of house plants, I can assure you. So, no one with an active food service operation is going to lend me that space. If I could afford it, and had a place to park it, I could rent a refrigerated tractor trailer. The freezer units run on diesel, so you have to have a way to get fuel to it.

The most promising idea seems to be the Nemakill. For one thing, I can get it. (Most products are for commercial operators only.) For another thing, that's it's primary purpose. Dr. Grewal has done some tests for the AHS on foliar nematodes. It was successful in controlling foliar nematodes in the lab.

I'm fairly sure that all my plants don't have them. But I don't know how I would know which ones have the bug, and which ones don't ($20.00 test per pot doesn't seem feasible).I still have tons of questions to answer.

I'm working on a plan. Once I get it figured out, I'm going to ask some of the "smart" guys if it makes sense.

bk

Bkay- Do you still have any suspect plants? Can you examine their roots for the nodules? They are very apparent when I get them on my tomato plants.

Could you put all you plants in a U-Haul and park it up North for the Winter? Say on Ken's vast estate? They would get a good hard freeze there!!!!!! ;-)

-Babka

No, they don't look like the roots of infected tomatoes.

I dug out some of this plant this afternoon for photos. This is how it looked last year.

(my photos are too big, so will have to split it up.)

bk

I'm not sure what the problem is, but the photo tool is giving me fits today. It would not let me post more than 1, then it wouldn't let me post a photo at all. So I just posted them to Hallson's.

I posted a photo of the plant last year (same as above), then how the plant looks today. Then, I posted a couple of photos of the roots. I dug this one up today. I had not looked at it's roots before. It looks like the other plants, too.

http://perennialnursery.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60550&sid=f76cb2d07b9aa1f8920714faaa679532

bk

Thanks, guys. I emailed Bob Solberg. He says that's what root knot nematodes look like on hosta.

I ordered Nemakill.
Now I have to figure out how I will know if it works.

bk

Good luck, Bkay...we're pulling for you and your hostas!

Bkay, just stumbled onto this thread and I'm SO sorry you're dealing with this. Your Hostas are always so stunning and this is just sickening to witness. Thank you for posting your photos on Hallson's, as many of us needed to see what root knot nematode damage looks like, both from above and below.

Please keep us posted as to the effectiveness of Nemakill. Wishing you complete success.

I've been reading the book Jo found online. The root knot nematodes can precede fusarium and phytophthera infections. So you may have to treat multiple problems. I'm so sorry you've got this issue.

Kathy

Bkay I copied this out of Facebook. I have only had nematodes on tomato plants and I know how depressing it can be.

Last summer I discovered foliar nematodes on my H. Tickle Me Pink. I dug the plant and potted it up. I have stored it away from other hostas. This year it is showing the foliar nematodes again. I purchased some Nemakill product and have sprayed the plant 3 times about 10 days apart. I also removed some of the more infected leaves. Can anyone offer me help? I was thinking about washing all of the soil off of the plant and dunking the entire plant in Nemakill.

Might be less costly to replace "Tickle Me Pink" and then you also don't have to use the chemicals... unless there is some sentimental value of course.

Take the plant out of the pot and rinse all the soil from the roots. Don't the let water drain anywhere near your lawn. I rinsed mine at the end of the driveway. After all the soil is off the roots, soak the entire plant in a bucket of bleach water for about an hour. Repot the plant in fresh soil and a new pot. Put the old soil in a bag and put it in the trash. Use the bleach water to clean out the old pot. I did this a few years back and haven't seen any nematodes since.

Did you remove the infected leaves first?

Also what concentration of bleach? 10%?

Good question Priscilla. I think I did remove the infected leaves. Remember the nematodes are down around the bottom of the stems so really get the water swished around that part. I used 10% bleach and then dumped a little more in just in case. Bleach has never killed my lawn or plants as I had to use bleach a few years back to get some mold off the side of the house.

Remember that nematodes travel by water. That's why I rinsed the soil from the roots at the end of the driveway. Wonder where the drive way idea came from? I hope any of this helps.

Names removed to protect the innocent.

Paula, from what i've read, Nemakill's primary purpose is to kill root knot nematodes. (I tossed the one with foliar nematodes.) According to what I've read here and there, Nemakill is effective against both the nems inside the plant and the ones in the soil. What you do with the Nemakill is a soil drench once a month.

My problem is that I don't know which ones have the problem. Some were obvious. Most of those are already trashed. My best guess is that I got the problem in potting soil or else I contaminated my potting soil while mixing it. I took a bag of pine bark mulch, added an appropriate amount of perlite and peat and mixed it on a tarp in the back yard. Then I dumped it into the trash can I use for potting soil.

I tossed Elegans and OBL, which I'm sure I got in 2013. The hosta shown above was repotted in 2013. I have no idea when I repotted Francee and Paradigm, but they had the problem. They're gone as well.

According to Chris and Bob Solberg, it originally came from either an infected plant or potting soil. From what everyone has said, it seems that these are only transmitted with soil or in the plant. (Had I gotten it in a plant, it would be somewhat limited to that plant, as I don't re-use potting soil.) Given the best guess is the potting soil, I have to wonder how many pots did I put a scoop of potting soil on top, to cover roots? How many did I pop out and put some soil in the bottom because they were too low in the pot? It could be in half my hosta, or actually, all of my hosta.

I emailed one of the Extension agents in East Texas who has done trials on hosta. He also has root knot nematodes in his yard, according to an article he wrote on root knot nematodes in potted plants. I'm hoping he will help me formulate a plan. I sent the pages from the Hosta Journal and the A&M results page to him on Friday. One of the Master Gardeners here in town suggested he might assign it to one of his graduate students (fingers crossed).

I'm hoping to have the Nemakill and a plan by the end of the week.

Kathy, the test results from A&M did not show any fungus - only the root knot nematodes and chlorosis.

Thanks everyone for your kind encouragement and support. I'll keep you informed.

bk

Good luck! You said you were getting a giant bottle of Nemakill. Could you just treat everything, or does the treatment pose a possible danger to the plants?

Yes, my plan is to treat everything.

It's approved for use in organic gardens/farms. It's all kinds of spice oils, some cinnamon oil, some clove oil and some other one or two. Nothing I've read has indicated it has damaged any plants.

Unless it had been a danger to my dogs, I would have used a non-organic product. My experience with organic pesticides is not too great. It's just that this one is available to homeowners. Very few, if any, nemacides are available to homeowners. I have no idea of what I'm getting into. It's $75.00 per quart, which is supposed to treat an acre. I do not know the dilution rate. It may be enough to solve the problem, or I may have to order another one next week.
At some point, it just makes sense to toss all the hosta. There is no way to know which ones are infected without a test at one of the universities ($20. to $35. per test per plant). You can't bring new ones into the environment until you are sure the problem is solved. You can't keep pouring money into tests and chemicals, not knowing if they will work. I'm not sure what that point is.

It's still a big question mark today. I'm hoping to have more answers this week.

bk

Oh, wow. I didn't realize EVERYTHING might have to go. You have such a big collection. Could you save the best by putting them in a freezer for a month, hoping they come back and isolating them if they do? You must be heartbroken.

I don't like using chemicals, but several of mine had either Southern Blight or something eating the base of the petioles. Environmental conscience went out the window and everything that looked the least suspicious got dosed with Bayer 3 in 1. Seems to have cured whatever it was, will have to remember to repeat in mid-August.

About the freezer thing.....I was reading a link the other day from some state research site that said foliar nematodes have been known to survive temps to -112.

Aren't foliar and root knot nematodes two different things? I thought that it is the frozen soil that keeps the root knot ones them in check?

-Babka

OK, sorry. I have been reading up on all of this and got my foliar and my root mixed up on this thread. Carry on. :)

I emailed the University of Missouri Nematode lab to see what they can share about root knot nematodes and freezing temps.

On Hallson's forum, Bill Meyer says nematodes are a side issue. He says the main problem is some kind of rot (which was my guess at first).
I emailed A&M to ask them if that makes sense.
I hope they all answer me.

bk

Well, they all answered me. U of M says they don't think freezing will work. They don't think it will kill "every last egg". Cold enough, long enough might kill the hosta. They want to know what happens if I do it, though. She also cautioned about water traveling from pot to pot, washing hands, cleaning tools, etc.

TX A&M says there was no sign of fungus on that specimen, as that was the first thing they tested for. He said, " root rots can occur due to excessive moisture (ie. when the roots sit
in water for too long). The deterioration of the tissue can occur
without the presence of a root rot pathogen (abiotic or cultural damage)"

He went on to say some more, but basically there was nothing there they could detect in the laboratory except the nematodes.

bk

Bumping this back up. Just discovered root nematodes on a specific hosta that is in a bed with my most prized plants. Any advice for preventing transmission to the rest of the bed? :(

The primary problem I had was rhizoctonia root rot. It's contagious. That didn't show up in the first plant I sent to the Texas A&M plant diagnostic labratory, because I had bleached it. (Bleach in a 10% solution is sometimes used on roots.) So, the only thing they saw was the root knot nematodes. When I sent in a second specimen, they diagnosed it and gave me some suggestions for treating it. When that didn't work, I called the county agent. He said that rhizoctonia is not very treatable and I would probably lose most of my hosta. I did.

So, the nematodes weren't that big a problem in my situation, it was the fungus. You will note though, the beach solution did not kill the nematodes.

They spread in water, so if the infected plant has been there a while, they've probably already spread. Not all plants are equally susceptible. About 10% of my hosta survived.

The usual treatment for nematodes is heat. On commercial farmers fields, they bring in these heat/steam treatments and treat a whole field. Hosta are susceptible to foliar nematodes. the usual treatment for those is dig up and trash the plant and then pour boiling water in the hole.

One place I would go for advice is the facebook page on hosta diseases. I'm not sure she still does, but Carol Brashear used to moderate that page. She and her partner are very active in hostadom (they do the hostalibrary.org), so that might be a good resource.

That's about all I can tell you. All the other information I have and the resources I used are detailed above. But again, the nematodes weren't my big problem.

bkay