Thanks for the great feedback, rgreen48. Starting the new garden this year, and getting a late start on it, I reconciled myself to the idea that if we harvested anything from the garden that would be a bonus...that we were simply trying to get the foundation started for the garden. Naturally, when I saw plants growing and blooming I shifted gears from "we're building a garden" to "I've gotta save the plants and gotta harvest two tons of vegetables off of this little piece of dirt!!!".<rolling eyes> Then, of course, along comes downy mildew, SVB (most likely), etc.,. Reality sets in that I've created a buffet for uninvited guests of different sorts. "Patient fortitude"...nice expression. <chuckle> Thanks for the reality check on needing to be more specific...I see that I was asking in a "shotgun pattern" manner. I've looked at lots of plant/variety lists and I agree there is a long, long list of different varieties. That's probably why I asked my original question(s) asking for recommendations...the list can be, uh, a little overwhelming. :) But, I agree that being more specific will gather better response and more research on my part will allow me to ask more informed questions. I think I'm going to be happy with my okra variety (Clemson Spineless) and my cowpeas (Zipper Cream) are starting to bloom on some *very* robust bushes so I think I'm good on them, though I might try a smaller seeded variety along with them next year. Yellow crookneck squash, though having a tough go of it (planted late), will also be one that I'll be planting again next year. The jury is still out on my tomatoes, cukes, and melons...all seem to be struggling but I'm not so sure a lot of that is accountable to the extremely wet/humid summer that we've had. So, I may just plant two or three new varieties of these next year and see which performs the best...maybe buy a large enough quantity of seed to replant the next year of the favored plant to insure against crossing between the varieties...??? ...and hope for a less incubator-style weather pattern next year! Saving seeds from hybirds... If I save the seeds of a hybrid and then replant them I understand that the resulting plant will be a wildcard but will the seeds from that wildcard plant produce replicas of itself and be OP? ....ok, I did some googling (it takes me forever to respond to a good post!<g>) and from what I can tell it takes the 7th generation to have a "new" stable variety from hybrid seeds...is that the Reader's Digest condensed version of the answer to my question? Vegetable gardeners are like beekeepers, it appears...ask ten beekeepers a question and get 20 answers...maybe 21. ;) Thanks for the good food for thought!

group shots: Bombay Silk, Grape Velvet, Tuscawilla Tigress hiding behind Vintage Wine, Strawberry Candy, Foxhaven Annie Red Skeletons and Red Viper seedlings [three at bottom, tall one at top, all one clump, Indian Giver, Past Forgetting, and misc. Finally caught up, though I need to look at all of yours from the past day or so. Also I am now at the peak. A few earlies are done, only a few FFOs, and a whole bunch of lates getting ready to go. Brad

Oh wow, I guess I don't have it so bad....orange stains on the house and fence that you have to avoid, that really is something I never heard of, but it makes sense. So, I wonder if you have ever considered drip irrigation. lol. I have had a fleeting thought about it, every once in awhile, but I think that about the vegetable beds more often. I have no idea why I haven't done it. I did put down some soaker hoses in some areas, but, I haven't used them in awhile. I need to check to see where they are again. Oh, I left them out one winter and they sprung a leak. I just need to replace them, and put them away in the fall. Soaker hoses I am a fan of, but not drip irrigation. I often think that I'm changing plants and shrubs in my garden too often to really get the benefit of 'permanent' drip irrigation. Then it would be one more thing to move. [g] But that's a great idea. That's what I need, is to buy some new soaker hoses at the very least. Thank you. :-)

Okay, so it is the next season after this thread. Not sure who might even still have an interest in this. I guess I feel I am trialing roses for disease resistance and growing organically and thought my experiences might be useful to anyone trying to do the same. What has happened since then. I cut back Julia Child just about to the ground in August last year. It came back from the ground and was about a foot tall before the first frost. Over the winter that new growth died back to the base of the canes. Some new canes came up from the ground and some new growth started on the bottom of the old canes. I did my usual compost/alfalfa meal in late April?, and fish emulsion/seaweed a few times. I had excellent healthy growth and I let it develop the way it wanted to. I tried to fix the problem I felt I created the season before, by cutting down any plants that were near the rose, so it gets a lot more air circulation. Last season I had a lot of cleome reseeding and allowed it to grow right up around the rose. A big mistake. It is only July now, but we have had two long heat waves already and it's been very humid this season, but Julia Child looks very good, just small. Here is a series of photos..... Julia Child April 27th, 21 - low to the ground but healthy growth. By May 25th, lots of healthy growth and flower buds showing. I didn't really prune any of the interior new growth. Still wondering if I should have because it has a lot of interior growth. Julia Child June 7th - first flush of bloom, looking nice iwth plenty of buds, healthy foliage. Julia Child on the 7th of July - Still has completely healthy foliage and is pushing out new buds for a 2nd flush, despite not doing my usual 2nd dose of compost and alfalfa meal. And that's the story with Julia Child. Have no idea why it struggled so much last year. I didn't use the Epsom salts because I chose instead to cut it down to the ground and not look at the ugly foliage any more. I was prepared to lose it and replace it with the same. Happy that I didn't have to. What is different this year than last, that it's had such a healthy year? No idea. I have two questions, was it better not to have applied a second round of compost/alfalfa meal? Should I have pruned some of the center growth when it first started producing so much new growth? It's been a good year for roses here. I have only had foliage problems on one out of eight roses and that was Pope John Paul. I shovel pruned it as soon as I realized it had blackspot. I could have done what I did to Julia Child last year and cut it back to the ground and let it regrow with healthy foliage, but I decided I was unhappy with the rose for other reasons and that was just the last straw. My biggest complaint is that the petals on the rose, deteriorate as it is opening, so it's hard to get a healthy clean looking bloom. I decided I wanted to try another white rose, maybe next year. I was initially over enthused about the rose, but that problem with the petals just really changed my mind. Savannah, has been healthy healthy looking. Pushed up new canes, is very bushy. Had a good flush of blooms 1st time around but is slow to put on new buds. My only concern is again whether it is too bushy and I should have pruned more of it off. I did prune it initially and it started with only 3 canes but it added more and is branching off those too. So, I'm just letting it do it's thing. I skipped the 2nd round of compost and alfalfa meal on all the roses this year. I think I did that, because they had a little bit of a rough time last year, and some had a rough winter, and I wanted them to just go at their own pace. Savannah June 4th 21 Savannah June 27th...first flush was done and the foliage still was clean but it's so bushy. It seems to me that is the way it grows and doesn't seem right to try to open it up in the center for air circulation. Especially since the foliage has been so clean. I have another thread floating around which I had a hard time finding, but I did think that Beverly was dead, and with encouragement from everyone here, I watied and it came back great in short order. It has also had a good season with healthy growth. It bloomed with about 5 blossoms first flush and right now it has one open bloom on it that is smaller and a few new buds just forming. Here is a current photo of Beverly, after thinking it was dead back in May...completely healthy foliage. I also have Prairie Sunrise, which I had an early season thread about - New Dawn, which had it's best year since I've had it - Aloha, which I enjoy and is very healthy but it's not in full sun and it is a very stingy producer. Penelope that keeps coming back even though I've cut it to the ground multiple times. [g] And that's about it. I would say based on my experiences with these roses, Julia Child I have had the longest and I feel is the most reliably healthy and productive. And I love New Dawn and hope to place it in a better location where it can really perform the way it was meant to. I love that old rose fragrance. I'm enjoying all the rest. I'm not sad to be looking for a new white. And I could lose Penelope and not be sad at all. But the current collection I have, minus Pope John Paul,seem to be a very healthy bunch for someone like me who grows organically with no spraying or insecticides at all.