Eric, it might help if you would add labels to the whole floor layout that you shared a few posts above. There are a lot of doorways in the kitchen area - including what seems like two doors side by side into one small room (near the fridge)? With the kitchen being in the center of that level of the house, it is important that its layout and the walkways work well together.

If you are redoing the kitchen I'm not sure why you want to keep the range right next to a door. It seems you might have options, including a peninsula instead of a small island if you switched it to where the dishwasher is currently.

Llucy, the range is centered on that wall. It just got pushed there while removing cabinets

I would love to offer advise as I think you don't have room for an island but I, too, would love to see the rooms labeled so we have a better idea of traffic flow issues. I think I agree with Sophie but it's hard to be sure when I'm unclear where the doorways lead to.

Eric I see you already have the cabinets, countertop, and backsplash done on the perimeter, so I completely understand not wanting to rip all that work out to move the range!

I think the pennisula idea could still work. If you did put the peninsula in front of the dining room doorway, could you move the dining room to the hearth room so it is no longer around the corner?

That room looks like a bigger space to put a nice size table. Plus who doesn't love a cozy hearth in the dining room!?

You could even have a 'window' opening/passthrough where the pennisula attaches so it would look out that great bay window and bring in light. That room would become the sitting room instead. Maybe a cute bay window seat? :-)

Sorry I have to agree with the others that your kitchen is too small for an island. And a 35.5" width is not enough for people to sit. that is only 11.5" for someone's knees. It will be very uncomfortable for your guest and they will have to sit with the seats well into the aisle which means you'll be trying to move around them. And your aisle is only 42" with people sitting there? Why are you trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole?

I think Sophie has the right idea. It will give you a much better space for working. Honestly, it's too bad you ordered your cabinets before completely thinking it through. An island shouldn't be an afterthought after the main cabinets are ordered but should be an integral part of the design. Maybe they haven't started building your cabinets yet and you can put it on hold?

Eric, in your mock up with boxes you show how a peninsula would block a doorway with the range where you have it placed. But if the range would be shifted right, then wouldn't your mock up be shifted right also? Sophie's peninsula designs seem like they would work well for your space giving you more space for the chef (you) 'inside' the kitchen.

As far as islands in smaller kitchens go...the one in my house is 3 x 6 ft. The overhang for seating is 11.5". It works okay even for my several family members who are 6 ft+. No one's banged their their knees on the cabinet underneath. If my family members where NFL/ NBA players? Dunno.

My long term observation of island seating in my home and others is that no one really wants to sit at an island for long lengths of time. The whole 'lined up in a row' thing is okay for kids, short meals, and people rotating at parties. People, at least in my experience - don't want to sit at an island, relaxed and talking, for an hour or more they way they feel comfortable doing so at a standard height dining table. So as cool as islands may look..they just aren't all that when planning for where you want to eat, hang out, and relax.

Aisle spacing; this is a thing. Eric, You are the only person I've heard of who pulls hot baking dishes out of the oven from the side. Works for you - won't work most people when you go to sell your house. Not saying you should remodel for someone you don't know, just that it might be wise to be somewhat resale conscious. You can shave inches to get what you want, but if you make it too tight, you may regret it.

Just suggestions. When you find what works for you...what could be better? :)

Llucy. The seating at the island is for just what you described. Just went to my brother's house where he has 40 inch aisles, and a 10" overhang. It feels fine to me. I'll be adding 2 inches and using smaller stool. The island is a multi function place for me, and without it I would regret it more than having it. Btw, if I shifted the range enough to fit the peninsula it would but against the sink, literally. Doesn't work for me.

I'm convinced that many people here have the luxury of 20'+ kitchens and can't fathom having a smaller space. I'm not even sure I'll be willing to post reveal pics due to the bombardment of negative comments. People saying 42" is enough, but then saying it's not. 42" is enough for me and my wife (the previous kitchen didnt have that much (one area wasnt even to code at 31" aisle). I appreciate the comments, they did influence me to order a smaller cabinet to shorten the island so I could have wider aisles. I think it was a great thing that i posted hereand made that change. Funny thing is I hired a KD that really does nice kitchens and she never said anything about my island being too big. Either way, thanks gw. I'm going back to ripping out flooring so I can get our gas line installed on Monday.

Uhhh, I suspect your kitchen is bigger than my 9x13. Some here have even smaller kitchens. Many of us realized our kitchens don't have space for an island. Me? I went with a peninsula. No room to walk around an island. Best wishes

I am so sorry Eric. If I came across rude or negative, please accept my sincere apology. Please do post your reveal. I am sure it will be beautiful!

I've lived in kitchens smaller than yours. However I didn't try and squeeze an island into it. In fact my kitchen in FL is 12.5' x 13' and it doesn't have an island. Actually it did when we bought it. It was an island that was 24" x 36". I made sure it hit the circular bin. My kitchen here in NY is 8 x 13. It has no island. My last kitchen was 10 x 13 and it had no island. My first kitchen was 7' x 25', my second was 10' x 12'. In fact, my new build will be the first time I will ever have an island. I will finally have a space large enough to put in an island.

Don't assume because we offer advice that would help you create a more functional kitchen that we come to you with huge kitchens. Maybe we are posting "negative" comments because many of us have lived in multiple kitchens and have learned over the years what is functional and what isn't.

A 9x11 kitchen is what I have. No island (obviously). Sorry if you felt offended, I don't think anyone meant it that way. Ultimately you are the one who has to love and live with your kitchen, that is what's important.

Eric:

I have followed your post closely. I am planning to start demo soon on my own small kitchen dining area combo. I have lived with a kitchen peninsula...dislike it immensely and my room flow is better than yours would be. Still, I HATE walking around it to get to anything in the kitchen's work area from the dining area. I understand your reluctance to give up the island. An island is non-negotiable to me.

Our original remodel plan without taking out a wall called for a 12 inch overhang; like you, I tested this in other kitchens and was fine with it. I had 42 inch aisles in the work zone but tight aisles if someone sat at the overhang. I was okay with that because most of the time I would have been the one sitting at the island prepping. Those of us with small kitchens are constantly weighing trade-offs; for me it has been "what is the least offensive?" Uninterrupted prep space that was not a peninsula so I could sit at a counter was/is the most important. Not losing cabinet storage is/was a close second. Lately, ,we have discussed combining the living room, kitchen and dinette area into one room.

Please post your reveal after you have lived with your layout...make sure you share what you think about the aisles as you live/work...especially the overhang and walkway behind the island when someone is sitting at the island.

Best wishes from one compromising small kitchen owner to another!

"As far as islands in smaller kitchens go...the one in my house is 3 x 6 ft. The overhang for seating is 11.5". It works okay even for my several family members who are 6 ft+. No one's banged their their knees on the cabinet underneath. If my family members where NFL/ NBA players? Dunno."

.

Seriously? They must have very short legs! I'm 5'10" and my knees just barely miss the back of our peninsula with a 15-inch overhang. My 6'5" DH and 6'7" DS rarely sit at the peninsula b/c 15" is too shallow for them (and my DH has short legs for his height.)

We have friends with a 12" overhang and I find it uncomfortable to sit at for more than a few minutes. If I want to reach the counter, I have to sit sideways and twist to face the counter - not comfortable at all! (Or "straddle" the island or lean far forward - neither of which are comfortable for very long either.)

My SIL had an island in her old kitchen with a 12" overhang and a 36" aisle b/w the island and the refrigerator behind it. She hated those seats so much that she removed the stools so no one could sit there! The problems were two-fold - (1) the overhang was too shallow and anyone sitting at the island stuck out into the aisle and (2) people stuck out so far that they blocked both access to the refrigerator and access to the aisle behind the seats. (The stools were backless and shallow so they would fit under the overhang and not be in the aisle when empty. She got rid of them anyway.) When she remodeled recently, she tore that island out and has no intention of putting another one back in. She's learned that a fad is not worth having a dysfunctional kitchen!

.

The NKBA recommends at least 15" of clear knee/leg space for counter-height seating. This means a 41.5" deep island with standard 24" deep cabinets. (1.5" overhang + 24" D cabs + 1" door/panel on the back of the cabinets + 15" overhang.)

Skimping on overhang does not help. It gives you the illusion of better aisles, but in reality people take up the same amount of space - you just make it more uncomfortable for them to sit at the island.

You also need a 44" aisle behind the seats - more if there's more than infrequent traffic. If you have counters or appliances behind the seats, you also need a wider aisle.

*sigh* I know it's a fad right now, but cramming an island into a kitchen that cannot support it is not smart kitchen design.

.

.

Suggestion:

What about getting an island with 18" deep cabinets and no decorative door or end panel on the back of the cabinets? Then you would have:

1.5" Overhang + 18" D cabinets + 15" overhang = 34.5" deep island

Regarding "trying out" ideas...tape is no good. It does not give you the actual "feel" and perspective.

When we were planning our kitchen, we started with tape and thought, "it'll work". But, when we put up boxes and moved the table to where the "island" would be, we realized an island would not work. We nixed the island - even though I wanted one so much! - and now have a peninsula. (Thank you GW folks for talking me out of that island - it would have been a disaster!)

A peninsula would actually work in this kitchen rather than being an, ''excuse me,'' shin barker that an island would be.

I currently have a table in the center of my so called "too small for an island" kitchen. It leaves me with 32" aisles which are a bit tight if two people want to pass. However some of you must be rather large people if you feel you must have 42" all around. I'm no little person either. LOL We plan to replace the table with an island. I've moved that table side to side and forward and back to decide proper aisle width for me. I don't like to take extra steps. I'm a pivot and turn cook similar to how restaurant line cooks work. When I tried 42" it was vast , and annoying, and added unnecessary steps, and did I say ANNOYING. My ideal came out to anywhere between 35 and 37 inches. Maybe a bit more in front of the fridge. So that is what I will be doing. The NKBA doesn't cook in my space, I do. My advice Eric is to mock up those boxes and do what works for you. BTW I take things from the side of my oven all the time. Beats reaching down and over the range door.

Here are most of the pictures, put together. Hope it's not too tiny to see. Eric, what are the rooms at the top and to the left? Is top, dining room?

The only thoughts I have are to place a narrow seating area as shown in the upper right of this collage, at the 'left' of the kitchen and to possibly mirror this with another smaller island angled as shown. I've often liked the two island effect.

How long will you be in this home? I know you just want to be done, but if you're planning on being there a long time, it's so worth the extra time, expense and planning now, to end up with a more functional kitchen.

Regarding the larger island you're showing, are you assuming that guests will always be seated? If you entertain with larger groups, you'll find everyone standing around the island. Add some more props to your tape mockups (sheets of paper or newspaper are fine) and then try to zip around the kitchen. (Step through making an omelet, for example).

Best of luck!

@beuhl -"Seriously? They must have very short legs!"

Ha ha, no.

My father has been sitting comfortably at his less than 15" overhang island for 24 years. He's 6 ft. Tomorrow, I have 4 men coming over who are between 6'2'' and 6'4". When they take their turns sitting at the island maybe I'll ask them: "Do you feel this island counter should extend at least another 3.5 inches?" If I remember. And if anyone says "Yes, definitely!" I'll report back.

A minimum 15" overhang may be recommended, but I suspect many existing islands and peninsula's don't have that, and the people who have them never noticed. Unless they read about it on gardenweb.

Eric, only you can know what will work best for your household and lifestyle. The 11' x 12' kitchen with an island (without a prep sink!) I live with may well be shunned by some gw'ers, but my parents have been enjoying it for almost 25 years. Go figure.

I sometimes wonder if people who are happy living in kitchens with things that are not recommended and might be considered dysfunctional have just never lived in a truly functional, comfortable kitchen. I didn't know what it was like to live with and work in a well-planned, functional kitchen until I was 47. It was illuminating.

I sometimes wonder if functional is defined by preference. I've lived with small kitchens that followed NKBA recommendations: x amount of counter space on either side of the sink, x amount between range & fridge, etc. Although I had counter space, it was so cut up it didn't feel like I had much. Having an uninterrupted 4-5 ft stretch of counter space would have been more functional for me. Even if the dishwasher was underneath it. :)

Hi Eric,

Our last kitchen had a small island with 45 inches between the fridge and island and 37 to 38 inches between the stove and island and sink/dishwasher and island. I never had a problem with aisles feeling to small. I always took dishes from the oven from the side, no problem. The trash was in the island across from the dishwasher and I could open both the dishwasher and trash (trash not all the way open) at the same time and scrape dishes. We could even walk around the open dishwasher easily. The kitchen functioned well for two people because we never seemed to cross paths.

Fast forward to our new to us house with 42 inch aisles everywhere and we have problems with two in the kitchen. We are constantly crossing paths. The large door on the fridge opens where we like to prep which means moving out of the way when someone wants to get something from the drawer in the fridge. The work triangle is small.

So every kitchen and family is different. I like the idea of using 18 inch deep cabs for your island with the 15 inch overhang. Most stools are 15 inches deep so you might as well have a 15 overhang.

If you are tight on space, I would personally give that extra space to between the fridge and seating, especially since that is a major walkway. I'd rather have 38 to 40 inches between the secondary aisles and as much space as possible in the main walkway.

For me, having an island makes a kitchen more functional. We don't do a lot of entertaining and when we do people are not generally congregating in the kitchen (we have 4 "hang out" areas in the house.. 5 if you include the theater, 7 if you include the outside). If having to walk around an island to get to the fridge makes a kitchen less functional for some, that's fine. For me, having less counter space is more hindering than having to take a few extra steps. I guess it just depends on how you use your space. For me having an island means another seating area for homework, or bills, my wife while I'm cooking, etc. It also means not having to use the table if I want to sit down and have a sandwich. We all have to choose what is best for us.

When I bought this house I knew I would redo the kitchen (and bathroom... guess I'll be careful what I ask when that time comes). Not necessarily because of the layout, but because I didn't like the counters, appliances, and cabinets. The one thing I was sure I would change was the island, from a trapezoid to a rectangle. There was never really a thought of pulling it out altogether. For me, as I removed the island the kitchen felt too open. Wasted space for me. You pull out the island and have 10 feet of walk space, but why? Are your friends 10 ft wide? or even 2? Do you want 20 people in the kitchen while you're cooking? My MIL and FIL are both large individuals. They were still able to walk through the 31" aisle space without turning sideways.

When I cook I'm not running back and forth to the fridge (maybe a couple trips), I generally get everything out at once and put it on the prep space (the island or near the sink). Since the trash can is in the island, and the island is near the sink.. well.. it makes it rather simple. Each to their own. When I started this thread my question wasn't "should I put in an island or not", it was "which island". People who think compromising a functional layout for a peninsula is a good plan... well... I disagree. Having the range next to the sink (literally) and losing an upper cabinet and some of the symmetry are trying to be functional while sacrificing aesthetics; that isn't smart. MOST people buying a home don't walk into the kitchen and think.. "man, if someone is sitting at that island and two people are trying to get through while I'm trying to open the fridge it won't work". My hope is to have an attractive kitchen that I enjoy being in, that functions for me, and won't reduce my resale. I'd be willing to bet many people would walk into my kitchen and go "where's the island" if I didn't have one. I know I would.

I load my DW from the side, I take things out of the oven from the side, and we walk from the kitchen to the hearth room more often than from the range to the fridge (meaning a peninsula is a terrible idea for "flow").

With all that said, again, I am thankful I came here as it made me widen my aisles slightly and shrink the island some. I think that change will have an impact on my kitchen's function and I'm appreciative for it. The rest of the banter was really unnecessary.

@Karenseb

Thanks for your constructive comment. I would tend to agree that a little more space in the main walkway would be beneficial. If I give myself 40 inches in the work area, I'd have 45" between the island and the fridge. We wouldn't be prepping on that side, so I don't have that concern. I would also agree that an 18" depth would've proven more acceptable. However, the cabinets were ordered weeks ago. Until the existing (ridiculous) island was removed it was difficult to see the space (hence me coming here to ask "which" because I could've made either work with the cabinets I had ordered). In the end I just ordered a rush delivery on a small cabinet to make the "new" island version (which $600 for a 9" cabinet kinda sucks). Just for reference... the old island was 35 x 85 trapezoid in shape... I can only imagine what people would've said about that... lol

Of course, llucy. Personal preference and our cooking style, family composition, etc., all play a part. And, remember, the NKBA guidelines are always minimums as in minimum of 36" between sink and cooktop not only 36" even if you have room to have more. I have 54" there and I wouldn't mind a few more.

Personally, even though I'm pretty averagely-sized, I couldn't stand 36-42" aisles in my kitchen. It would make me feel like I'm imprisoned, almost claustrophobic. I much prefer around 54". I'd rather walk a few steps and have spaciousness. The thought of working in some of your kitchens makes me cringe but you'd probably feel that way about my more spacious place.

And, of course, aisle width is not the only issue to be considered. As mentioned above, designing a kitchen so there is no crossing over work zones if the ideal. This can be done even in very small kitchens. Sometimes, in order to do so, you do need a wider aisle.

My kitchen is only 9x13 and I can have up to 5 people working in it, all at their own work station, without congestion because of my spacious aisles. It does get a bit congested with that many and each person has to be aware and considerate towards others but there is room to make it work. With the normal 1-2 people in my kitchen at a time, we have no congestion issues at all. And there are no barriers to the fridge, sitting/dining area, or pantry. If I had one an island, there would be congestion and barriers so I'm happy with my peninsula.

Yes, we're all different and have different preferences. But there are some designs that are just simply dysfunctional. I suppose it's possible that what is dysfunctional to one person may be a preference for someone else.

" You pull out the island and have 10 feet of walk space, but why? Are your friends 10 ft wide?"

This, made me roar. Thanks for the laugh, those kind don't come along that often. ;)

" When I started this thread my question wasn't "should I put in an island or not", it was "which island".

I see you realized, as I did early on, what happened in here. After posting online for well over a decade, I have found this is actually most often the case. Nature of the beast. But I will say, I honestly do believe the vast majority of posters mean well, they just, can't resist. lol But it can be a test in patience!

"Each to their own."

If everyone could remember (and apply!) this, whether they think they know best or not, it would help a lot. And I think more people might post. :)

Just my 2 mere Lincoln heads.

I look forward to your reveal, should you decide to post. And if you don't, I totally get it. Either way, enjoy your new kitchen!

Hey Funky. The OP made a good case how an island with 42" aisles would be more functional for him than a design with a lot of open space. Someone else who bought a house with the same layout might show up on GW asking for help because they believe 42" aisles are dysfunctional for them. Same layout, is it functional or dysfunctional? That's what I meant about function perhaps being defined by preference.

I don't see many layouts on this forum I would qualify as dysfunctional per se. Mainly I see layouts that are made better by the talented people here willing to help. Sometimes it's hard for me to pick which design *I* would like best if it were my kitchen. Sometimes the OP doesn't want to go with designs I think are great because of their own preferences.

Is your kitchen finished Funky? Like you, I love windows. I remember you had some glass block? on a kitchen wall that had been covered up you hoped to reveal. Love to see how it all turned out. :)

Getting there.

I will say that removing hardwood flooring is nearly the least favorite part of this for me. Making choices was the first.

Ok. So I'm really trying to "see" the idea of a peninsula. I do like the idea of moving unencumbered to the wall oven, microwave, fridge, stove, dw, and sink. That said, if I do that I lose cabinet space, a walkway, and what I perceive as a better prep area (but could save $700). Putting a peninsula in and leaving the doorway isn't an option, seriously. That wall is only 66" long of cabinet front, so it's impossible. That doorway that I hung a sheet over leads to our dining room. It's where we eat everyday, and where we feed our son every couple hours. It's an extra 13 steps to get into the dining room (and since we're really talking about extra steps when looking at an island hampering movement I think it's worth mentioning).

If we considered closing that doorway and installing a peninsula, would leaving a passthrough there (ie, building a halfwall) for the dining room seem odd? Seems odd to me, and even then we still have to bring ourselves around the long way. We would have 42" of walk space between the corner of the peninsula and the wall to the left. If we clipped that corner we could get to 48". That is with a longer overhang (vicinity of 20") so that it becomes even with the small wall on the other side of the dining room walkway. I like the idea of the guests being able to see the TV while chatting to the cook (me), and dislike it at the same time. Below you can see a diagram that shows measurements and room placements.

Other option is to convert the hearth room into the dining room, but I don't really need a 16'x22" dining room with a fireplace and a TV... As you can see by the chandelier in the pic it was a table area, but we find it silly to have two tabled eating areas within 20 ft of each other. We plan to remove the chandelier and put a ceiling fan in the center of the room instead (we plan to have that done on monday/tuesday with all the other electrical work).

What I'm saying here is help me understand why this is "better". We have only a few days to really get this set in stone (a couple more if I want to remove the electric and have him install it the hard way and want to spend $700 on the cabinet regardless (I probably have to cancel my cabinet order by tomorrow if I want to save the money)....... I'm stressed the F out... seriously..

llucy, that is why I added the caveat "personally". I get that we all have different needs and some like more spaciousness while others prefer more cozy. The universal guidelines work for most people and should be given due consideration as a starting point. If someone then chooses to go outside of those guidelines, they are, hopefully, doing it based on an objective evaluation of their own preferences and cooking styles, not following trends.

Thanks for remembering my project. No, not near done, not even close. The weather has been too nice to work on indoor projects. The kitchen is quite functional but rather ugly at this point, lol. But we would rather be grilling out on the patio anyway. :)

Cpartist, I agree that having larger aisles don't equal a more functional kitchen. I also think that having small aisles are not as nice as larger aisles, but that you can have smaller aisles and still have a functional kitchen if it is laid out well.

Perhaps Eric could do a 36 inch square island with a rounded 18 inch to 24 appendage on the left end of the island where he could fit two small stools. So the island would be 36 inches by 60 inches, but rounded on the left end.

Um if you did something like this what would your aisles be? If you did a bar height, your overhang would only have to be 12" whichever you chose. You would have to make sure though that your corners were rounded.

Eric, if you can cancel by tomorrow, would you be amenable to possibly reconfiguring the kitchen without the corner sink and the awkward angles? You have a great space there and I think depending on how much work you want to do, you could have a terrific kitchen where you keep the dining room where it is since you don't want the hearth room to become the dining room. However it would mean reconfiguring the kitchen and you have some of the best people here to help you. this shouldn't be a rush job, nor should it be a "good enough" job when it can be a great job.

I personally would try and arrange something more like this. It opens it up more. I don't know how large your dining room is but you could always do a banquet seating in the bump out and that would give you room to have your seating at the counter area.

However to do something like this, we'd need exact measurements and you'd need to be amendable to removing the wall between the dining room and kitchen and then getting rid of that weird angled sink.

Oh, it's far too late to cancel the majority of the cabinets Cpartist. I ordered them 5 weeks ago. I'm only speaking about the 9" cabinet I ordered for rush delivery. Personally, I like the sink in the corner, even though it is odd. The reason is that window looks out my atrium and it's a nice view. I'll post a pic in a moment. There's also not a good way to change the layout without moving the kitchen to the hearthroom and now we're talking 10k+.. we don't have that. The island turned like you have it would make bottlenecks like we just removed (two areas where the walkway was less than 36" (one was 31"). I can go measure since our new island would be smaller, but I fear it would result in the same. I will go measure, however.

So, doing this... well it could work I guess. I'm trying to not be closed-minded here, I'm just not sure about this layout. Who here thinks this makes real sense? The one would end up being a small eat in area (the table four chairs on the left.. the boxes are couches above it) with the dining room being the "formal" area, though we really wouldn't use it formally as our table is bar height and I refinished it myself and won't part with it (it won't fit in the eat in area as it is 55"x55").

Eric, I need time to digest the room floor dimensions / arrangement, but have to chime in now that I do like the sink as you have it. I like it a lot. Now that I understand a bit of the layout, I don't think your original layout is totally wrong. My kitchen is central to the floor, and my 'peninsula is the dropping / launching place. Food about to be served always seems to be on it before being brought to the dining room OR it's placed there to self serve and carry the plates to the table (which is how our family meals are being run now my children have homes of their own. Less moving of the food - though we all still use nice serving dishes. They just stay in the kitchen. So the dining table looks like it does in a restaurant.

I do have now one detail I don't get in your new kitchen --- that wall oven. (I admit that I've never prepared meals in a kitchen without a range / oven in one unit.) For me, the oven is just too far away - and it's right next to the fridge which creates an 'energy conflict'. And with a fridge in that spot - I'd really want a counter right there to plop things on.

So the wall oven provides me with an additional oven. We have an all gas range and an electric wall oven. Best of both worlds: 2 ovens, inpact of a nice range, gas oven for roasting, and electric oven for baking. Our microwave is going directly above the wall oven. Its another reason we like the island. Its a place where we can put things from the fridge, oven, or microwave. We also use the island as a serving area during family events. It's well coordinated and a one way street so to speak.

Here is a suggestion:

I am sorry if the measurements aren't quite right. It's supposed to be 1 sq. = 1 sq. ft, but I had a bit of trouble making the measurements on your sketch add up correctly here. You should have at least 4' walkways in the primary work zone (5' where the seating is). This is not ideal, but it's not bad, and it gives you your island.

• I closed the doorway to the dining room. However, I kept the island, so it's still not a long walk to the dining room (you're not walking around a peninsula).

• Closing that doorway let me move the fridge into the main work zone, so the island would not be a barrier between the work zone and the fridge.

• Moving the fridge meant I could make the pantry wall all cabinets that are 12-15" deep. That is the best kind of storage (easy to see and reach everything -- nothing gets lost in the back), and since they aren't deep, there is now more room for walking behind the island.

• You now have a wide enough walkway between the island and pantry to have a couple seats at the island.

• The great pantry storage also means you can do without uppers in the primary work zone. I added another pass through opening above the new sink location so you can now look out while doing dishes. Also, with that new pass bar, you REALLY shouldn't mind the loss of the dining room doorway.

• Your main prep counter now has the view of the atrium, which should be nice.

• Your microwave and second oven can go somewhere in the island, although I would suggest getting one appliance that works both as an oven and a microwave.

Oh nice Jillius!

Eric, Glad to see you are being 'open minded'. It is always good to weigh all your options thoroughly, if at all possible. However, I am learning the hard way that sometimes you have to make decisions very quickly. It's is NO FUN! I NO LIKEY!

In one of your photos above, I think your doorway to the dining had a little short side wall on the hearth room side. Could the fridge be recessed in there to be like a counter depth?

No, on second thought maybe that would wreck the arched look.

Jillius. Thanks for taking the time to try to make something work. I am listening to everyone, though I don't always agree :D. So, couple things I'll point out with this layout that you posted and why they really won't work. First, the range you put on a 2x4 wall that is 9ft tall. Our ceiling there is 16ft tall (ish, 15-17ft) So, we'd have to run our duct straight up and in a sight line (not interested in doing that... we're not a modern house (so exposed duct is out) and a drywall column will not look right). Second, the cutout over the sink will have us look straight into the dining room, and not actually out the atrium. I will say that I've considered closing that wall since it's been suggested and placing the fridge there, but I would leave the rest as is (and either extend our built in pantry or (more likely) buy a wider pantry cabinet. I also guess you weren't able to see from my pictures, but where the wall oven/fridge are is actually a cutout of 28" deep (so after the drywall pantry a length of 84" is inset 28"). So we would have to walk in and then out of it to get more space... I think that will look out of place.

If I had it to do all over again, I would probably build a wall between the kitchen and the hearth room and make it where we could put the refrigerator on that wall. Then we'd open up the wall the dw is on into the great room and make it a peninsula. But you'd see the chairs right when you walk in, but the right chairs could make a statement, and make that area a gathering place for parties, etc. It would also open the kitchen to the atrium completely. It would also make the hearth room a better area to create a play area, and a more closed off area all together. Alas, we've already ordered the cabinets and probably couldn't afford the cost to demo that wall, the soffit (which apparently has all the electric in it) and rerun all the electric that would be required. Not to mention the extra cabinets we would have to order. But something like this could've worked.

I'm going to walk around and take pictures to post tomorrow when it's light out. So you all can get the "full" picture of my house. Without 3D rendering its impossible to draw something that shows all the issues with this house... lol. We bought this house because we loved a lot about it: The area, the schools, the yard, the patio, the basement (9ft pour, which I will use to my advantage when I rebuild the movie theater), the atrium, the subdivision, the ceilings, the bedroom, the fireplaces (all 3), etc. The things we didn't like were the kitchen, the master bath, the decor (you'll see the green in the pictures.. plus the wall paper, other paint choices, etc), and the horrible soffit running around the kitchen. They were going for a country house and that's fine, but well... me no likey (as rebunky put it).

In our previous home, we had a corner cooktop with an island that ran parallel to it. I had a 36" base cabinet with drawers and two pie shaped cabinets on either end, one which was a small bookcase and the other with a door and shelves where I stored cups and snacks for the GKs. The overhang allowed for three stools. It was a weird shape, but it worked well and allowed for an island in the space with plenty of aisle space.

Cherry shaker kitchen · More Info

A great space, Eric!

Thanks stephanj. It's a work in progress. We bought this house because we saw some potential. Had some awful decorating going on... like these.

I fixed those already....

Then I made our nursery a nerd room

We'll be gutting the master bathroom next year, and we have a lot of other stuff left to do. We're taking it a piece at a time. I will say that I've been having daily anxiety moments when I think about the kitchen. Like it, love it, hate it, I'm ready for it to be over... Just so I stop worrying about it.

At NH. That's the style of island we actually ripped out. It didn't work for us. It made the aisles extremely narrow and it was hard to get around (especially during the holidays). That's why we decided on a rectangular island instead. I'm sure we're going to be happy once it's over, at least I hope. Just hoping it looks nice and works well for us. I've had the boxes set up this week and walking through the aisles (fridge is still in place), and it doesn't feel cramped. It actually feels easier to get around than our previous island.