As to the wilting, if I understand correctly you cut off a stem and planted it, basically made a large cutting. Tomatoes root easily but like any cutting with no root supply for its early life it is not able to uptake enough water to supply and upkeep all the leaves it normally has, which is why growers usually remove all or most of the leaves when doing them. If you don't want to be that drastic you can perhaps cut the plant back by a third and if the leaves start perking up a bit after that then maybe water demand and lack of means of supply (roots) was the issue. This is of course just a suggestion (as all advice is on a public forum even when the offerors forget that) and I will in no way be offended if you choose not to apply it.

Regards,

Dan

BahamaDan, the "sassy" tone is because I get straight to the point. Especially since most of the time I respond from a tablet, I try to get my point across without too many words. I can barely type on the damn thing.

"some of the persons commenting who felt they knew it all were too busy being personally offended by your lack of instantly lapping up whatever (often conflicting, confusingly presented or just plain blunt and offputting) advice they handed out like some mindless blindly grateful invalid."

Yes, you're right. That's what I was stating about digdirt... seems to be personally offended when it has nothing to do with him... Everyone has different ways of doing things and different environments. What they have problems with I may not. My biggest problems are actually animals. So far, still no fungus/mold, and I've barely sprayed them.

"You stated multiple times that you had already done some research and had some small experience and was really just posting to see what everyone thought of what you were doing etc, I'm not sure why some got so offended by their advice not being followed to the letter as that was never the requirement for it being shared in the first place."

Also true. I just wanted to know if the tomatoes will be ok in the grass since I've never done it and no information is on the web about it.

Suggestions and advice are optional after all, right?

I read up on calcium and someone stated that antacids only have 1g calcium and toms need much more than that. Today I did not water them in the morning as I usually do since it rained during the night. It started at 3 am and I'm not sure when it ended, and it was 91-93 degrees out. They were wilting when I got back. We will see if I have another BER problem. Hopefully not. I do think those pills I used will help though, since I searched each form and they can be taken up by toms except one.

You're right about the wilting! I didn't think of that. I thought the stem would be ok with taking up nutrients. Maybe I will cut it apart so each branch can support itself. I did cut off one branch and it has yellow leaves but it's doing well and not wilting. Cutting it back a third sounds like a good option as well. I'll try it tomorrow.

Updates on the plants. They are all still doing well. The potted ones are now big and bushy but I don't want to prune them because I want as many tomatoes as I can get! I know this may cause me problems but I will deal with it.

In fact, there was a huge storm last night and when I check in the morning, four of them had tipped over. (Before you say "I told you so" (daniel_NY) I did tie them to blocks earlier (see photos above) but I guess it wasn't enough. Lesson learned.) I was going to get stakes for them but I want to go cheap and see if blocks and branches will work. Some toms on the ground were flattened a bit, some leaf branches in the potted ones broke in half, but no tomato loss. One branch of a tomato plant did take damage but no tomatoes are growing on it. It's strange because it's clearly pollinated but the tomatoes aren't growing. I think it's a white tomato. I grew it last year and same thing happened, as well as same flowers and misshapen fruit.

The toms are now secured on 3 sides so as not to fall over.

The small ones are starting to fruit!

This is the one that was cut in half. The bottom is now growing fruit. The top half is still hangin around but I didn't take a picture.

Close up of the ones in mini raised beds. As you can see, even with daily watering the cardboard holds up.

I think this is a white tomato. I grew it last year. Looks the same. Just one misshapen fruit. The plant that broke is next to it and must be the same variety.

Are these sungolds ripe??

Random pictures of fruit growing on ground tomatoes.

Btw, how do you fertilize your tomatoes when there is mulch? Do you pull back the mulch? I read that phosphorus only moves 1mm past the surface.

I just remembered there was one branch of tomatoes that was damaged. Luckily the branch is still attached though. Half of it snapped so I used twice to lift it back to place.

Hey shijitake, I don't grow in containers but in the ground, my mulch is the fertilizer. Pop a few of those Sungolds in your mouth and enjoy the fruit of your labor :-)

Thanks goodground :)

The ones growing on the grass still look very small (at least the ones I can see the whole plants). I bet it will be a good 60 days at least to see ripe fruit from them, if they do produce ripe fruit. It is August so.... good luck.

The other ones in the containers look better though. I'm not sure what plants those fruits are on... the ones on the grass still look like seedlings. Enjoy your Sungolds.

Almost all the ones on the ground already have flowers and/or fruit. Three of them have fruit that are ripening, all of which are cherries. I actually didn't like the sundgold. It was sweet and flavorful, but I think I liked the earthy black plum from last year better.

Also had no idea mulch can work as fertilizer.

Well now you know :-)

I suggested you mulch around your plants as the first reply in this thread. It would have made a huge difference in your ground production. Yes you can grow them in the grass, just give them a generous circle of mulch. Organic mulch works into the soil and creates the worms which means fertile. To me, shredded leaves add ornamental value. You will be surprised how much you need to keep adding to fight the grass out of the circle. Next year, take an easier and cheaper approach. Collect free leaves after your neighbors bag them up and put them at the curb for you. I use my Jeep...lol...i could never have enough! I wouldn't bother with the containers because your garden gives you a much better bang for your buck...food for thought :-)

Yes but like I said I didn't have the money for it. I bet it depends on what type of mulch as well. I don't mind buying fertilizer though. It ensures the toms get what they need.

My 2 volunteers:

Very nice daniel. Have you been watering them or does the ground stay wet enough? Along with the experiment, I wouldn't have staked them.

Hello all. I hope everyone's having a good summer. The plants are still doing well. I can have pictures up later tonight. I just have two questions. The tomato fruits seemed to have stopped growing. I didn't do anything different. I even gave them fish emulsion but they still haven't started growing again. All of them... from the ground to the potted ones. Why?

Also I was thinking instead of pruning the suckers, maybe I could prune them so that they are bushy rather than tall. Good idea or not?

The fruits have stopped growing? You mean like they've reached mature size? Or have they seemed to stop at whatever size they were... some nickle, some quarter...etc...? If the latter, it's probably caused by heat.

Some may say different, but I wouldn't do any pruning at all. Unless there's an unmanageable danger of unruly growth causing damage by tipping the containers or something, as the song says... 'Let it grow'. Some say that pruning may help the plant finish the fruit already set, but even then there's a 'shock' involved. Besides it's still too early for that rational.

Bushiness is fine, but in my humble, if not at times warped, opinion, pruning for plant shape should be done much earlier in the year during the growth stage. You are in fruiting stage now. Unless you are just looking for ornamental tomato plants lol, your goal is to get ripe fruit. At this point, let the plant do it's thing and you only facilitate. :-)

Thanks. I did have problems with the wind knocking the pots over but the blocks and logs are doing their job and keeping them stable. Yes the *fruits* have stopped growing! No matter what size they are. I doubt it's the heat bc a heat wave in the 90's just passed last week and the temp dropped back to the 80's. And they kept growing... then suddenly stopped about 2 or 3 days ago. I'll check later if they grow today. Another heat wave is coming by Friday.

I just wanted to comment that my grandfather always grew his tomatoes in the yard, simply creating a small circle of dirt for each plant (well, except for the year grandma got mad at him for putting tomatoes in with her roses and he planted them in the gravel driveway to get back at her - that's another story). His mulch and only fertilizer was grass clippings he got from mowing the yard, and any leaves he raked. He used branches from trees as his stakes. I don't remember ever seeing him spray, but he was out there every day babying those plants (trimming, staking, removing anything that didn't look right). He grew amazing tomatoes, and lots of them.

I have a dedicated garden area for my tomatoes and live in a much better climate for growing them. I have an irrigation system. I mulch, amend, fertilize and spray, spend a lot more money on it than he ever did, and I still haven't grown the quality or quantity of tomatoes that he was able to produce just using things he had on hand.

Anyway, I don't think you HAVE to spend a lot of money to grow your food, but you do have to be conscientious and learn from your mistakes. As if anyone cared for my 2 cents ;)

WOW WOW WOW!! I changed my mind about sungold! I've been picking them just when the green color is gone but I found out to pick them when golden with a bit of peach. AND WOW! Delicious! So sweet. My dirty little secret is that I don't like tomatoes! I like tomato products such as bisque and ketchup, but I don't like the juice and feel of raw tomatoes in my mouth. I grow them for fun and to eat them fresh for health. But sungolds are now in my permanent grow list.

Humsi, very cool. Of course I'm interested in your stories. Is he still alive? Find some tips from him and share! They probably tasted good because his biggest ingredient is how much he cared for them.

Unfortunately my grandfather passed a few years ago. His main tip to me for tomatoes was using grass clippings for everything, and spending lots of time caring for your plants. I kept telling him I don't have grass so I can't use clippings and he would just shrug at me like he was at a loss lol

Sungolds are delicious, aren't they? If you haven't yet, you might try other orange tomatoes like Kellogg's Breakfast as they have a similar sweet taste to them. I'm kind of a picky tomato eater too and I enjoy both of those.

I have heard of Kellogg's Breakfast. I'll see if I have enough pots next year to grow them.

Can anyone help with how to tell when black plum and black cherry are ripe?

Seems this post has lost some steam, but I'll put up updates anyway. They're still doing very well. The potted tomatoes have more and are larger but the taste is the same. I don't understand why none of them are growing any bigger though. Could it be from disturbing the roots?

Harvest, ground plants on the left, potted on the right.

Unfortunately my black cherry split and bent. What should I do? The one split in half is not wilting and doing just fine. Should I put something (like cotton) in the split?

Another black cherry from the ground. Also spotty. But tasted just fine.

I mistakenly broke a tomato in half. I felt bad so I put it in a little pot. The tomato grew a little.

My potted Rutgers isn't doing well. I have no idea why.

How are yours doing daniel?

Come on shijitake.... you are pull our leg, right? I find it hard to believe this isn't some kind of gag. Those plants on the grass look absolutely terrible (understandably so).... I'm amazed you got even a single cherry tomato off any of those... And the fruits look kind of scary.

I hope you get some nice tomatoes from the plants in the pots, I can't see them all that well in the picture but they do seem healthy and like they will pull through something good for you.

I'm late to this thread but glad to see that you are getting some production.

Most of us here do not have a profit grower mindset, most of us are closer to hobbyists just looking to pass time and grow vegetables, we also won't take it personal if you don't follow our advice ;)

Keep experimenting, learn from your mistakes and enjoy your new hobby :)

Steve

Thanks Steve.

Peter, I said before that the ones on the ground are extras that I didn't want to throw out or spend any time, work, or money on. So, its no surprise they're not looking so great. They don't look that terrible though. They're not vigorous, but they're doing well. Growing flowers and fruit. In fact, they seem to have less problems than the potted ones (less leaf roll, magnesium deficiency, blossom end rot, and some other symptoms my potted ones have).

How do the fruits look scary? They just look a bit different from the "perfect" ones. They taste the same. That's how they would look on tomatoes in the wild. The spotty parts on the black cherries were no more than on the skin.

I did get many delicious sungolds from the potted plants. The potted ones are doing great. Except the Rutgers. No ripe ones yet other than sungolds and black plums and Rutgers with BER unfortunately.

Also, I don't know if you read carefully but the pictures of the fruit are half from the ground and half from pots. So for all I know, you could be calling the ones from the plants scary.

I'm glad you are happy. I hope you are learning for next year.

Thanks, I am. I'm curious though, why you think I'm "pulling your leg"?

shijitake
wrote: > How are yours doing daniel?

They are
ok.

For more details, please see the thread: Daniel, do you have plants yet?

Nice job Daniel, sorry about the damper the HOA cops put on your preparations, but you had a great jungle last year. Hope you get a few tomatoes for fun this time around, I learned I enjoy saving seeds from yard volunteers. My lawn-grown volunteer is long gone. Can't say it was a pleasurable growing experience I'd repeat (too much concern with spreading disease to the rest of my plants, but sometimes I feel like a tomato Daddy and love all my plants just the same, whether they grow up to make something of themselves or not :-)

Cheers

PC

Op--good for you, this looks like a fun experiment and a pleasant way to feel hopeful while you look for a job. Congrats on getting one!

I will now admit that I totally have volunteer tomato and tomatillos in the lawn. They're volunteers from compost. And they don't do too badly. When I was a kid, I remember trying to garden in my sandbox with zero amendments or anything...and I actually got some watermelon! (No, no one secretly took care of it for me). I recently took a year off work to change careers and my gardening was really helpful for giving me something to think about besides what I was studying, including my lawn volunteers. That's what hobbies are for!

I'm sure after trying so many experiments you'll have a good grasp on what the plants in your area can really handle. When you're able to really get a garden going, you'll actually have a clue about what works for you. Keep posting updates about how it turns out!

PupillaCharites wrote:

> My lawn-grown
volunteer is long gone. Can't say it was a pleasurable growing experience I'd
repeat (too much concern with spreading disease to the rest of my plants...

I would have been concerned too.

Happy to say it's Sept 1st and Disneyland is still open (how's that for ya digdirt?)

The ground plants aren't strong and vigorous but they are doing just fine. They gave me lots of fruit. Mostly black plums and sungolds. Maybe I'll put up pictures later. Unfortunately I left for three days and had my dad water the plants. I don't know how he watered them but a couple of plants dried up. Otherwise all the plants are still doing well.

Thanks, Marianne.

Sorry to hear about your volunteer, PC

Looking forward to see what happens with your volunteers, daniel

shijitake, good to hear that the "Disneyland is still open." [You a poet.]

Make sure you post pictures.

An update about my volunteers is available in the Daniel, do you have plants yet? thread.

tete a tete, I can ASSURE you that my transplants didn't die because of lack of water. It's true in my first year I was a newbie, but not THAT newbie.

Yes Daniel, I believe you. I took one look, saw the dry soil and the wilted plant and jumped to a conclusion. I see that now that I am sipping coffee and am awake and fresh.

ETA: Oh, and I've just seen your two volunteer plants who have taken up residence in grass. Good for them! Nothing like trying something new.

E(again!)TA: Plants don't have brains but they aren't stupid. Their roots have found their way into the ground.

LOL

tete a tete, while the lack of water could be ONE of the reason tomatoes wilt, there are others - such as diseases. An example: Fusarium and Verticillium Wilts.

Dry soil on the surface, doesn't always mean that the plant needs water.

Hence my comment which was meant as an apology.

I was not sure about that...

Sorry about being lazy. These are photos I took a month ago (Sept 2). They were doing well and the ones on the ground did even better throughout sept. They gave me more fruit than the potted ones. I did everything I wasn't supposed to (wet the bottom leaves when watering, water during the day sometimes, not cut off dead/dying/possibly diseased leaves, move the potted ones to where there is more sun (as the sun moved more shadow from our trees covered them), not use pesticide/fungicide, etc., (leave the ones bending down touching the ground, etc.) Thanks to the drought there was no need to worry about fungus. Any pests seemed to have been taken care of by birds and a mantis. I don't know how lucky I'll be after the hurricane and fall rains, but we'll see. Honestly I'm getting kinda tired of taking care of them (sorry). Here are pics from early Sept and I'll update after the hurricane.

The only thing I did for the month was water them a small amount daily. They gave so much fruit though. Me, my parents, and my bf are tomato'ed out. My bf's parents want more though lol. No one liked the white except my bf.

daniel, take it easy... it was his first impression of how it died. It was mine too. No need to take it personally or be harsh about it.

Tomatoes - shamatoes... what I want to know is if it's an optical illusion or is that shed really leaning as far as it looks to be??? Lol.

Almost 90 days and 255 posts here.

So what did you/we learn/gain from this gardening style ?

Sey

'tete a tete, how do you mulch chocolate cake? Is that a joke? I did notice the tomatoes on the ground covered by grass don't seem to be drying up as fast as the ones which are exposed.'

Yes, it was a silly joke.

Every now and then I look into this thread while sipping some coffee and am surprised by the fury of posters who believe that a person must do what they suggest. Weird. Good thing those twits aren't ruling the country.

Or are they?

I just wanted to say that I did something similar this year. I didn't have the funds for mulch. I did try to use grass clippings to hold back the grass around the plants, but the paths were all grass, and most of the space between the plants was too. The hardest thing was mowing between the rows. At first I used a reel mower, then when the plants got too big (and I had some volunteer gourds that started getting in the way), then I used a weed whacker. Then I just tried to ignore the grass. The tomatoes got pretty big. The ones in the regular round V shaped tomato cages did the normal thing where they got so big they fell over. I didn't water. Because I don't spray and with the grass I had a LOT of bugs. The uneven watering from mother nature gave me a lot of splits. Some however were quite prolific with large plants and unsplit fruit; crovarese, striped roman, matts wild, chico III, sun sugar. Red pear, sweetie, and sweet 100 all had large plants but lots of splits. The beefsteak types seemed to do the worst. Splitting, and getting eaten by bugs (or the occasional chicken), and not getting as big as the other plants. Black prince was a bit shorter then when I grew it in a grass free area, but I also planted it late. It had the same amount of splitting as when it was watered with a soaker. The fruit was a tiny bit smaller.

Thank you tashmoore11 for sharing your experience.

I wouldn't worry if the soil is compact. You can grow tomatoes in clay if you really want to (and there are both pros and cons to this). If your area is arid, you might not have problems with fungal diseases from mud splashing on your leaves, either. With all that ground cover from the grass around, I'm guessing you wouldn't need to worry about that as much, though.

That said, however, if you have really loose soil atop clay, tomatoes may hesitate to venture into the clay, and just fill up the loose soil. I've seen this happen in a container with about half clay (on the bottom) and half potting soil (on the top). The clay was almost untouched, by comparison.

One thing you can do is grow your tomatoes out bigger before you plant them outdoors (give them more light indoors for faster, stronger growth). You don't need a special grow light (CFLs will work, even if they're not 6500k, but higher color temperatures are better for leaf growth; lower ones are better for flowering and protecting your seedlings from damping off disease, but they'll help leaf growth, too). Then, you can use a post hole digger to dig a narrow, but deep hole, and plant the plant. Because it'll be deep, competing with weeds shouldn't be much of a problem insofar as nutrient competition goes, unless the grass or weeds have deep roots or are parasitic. Tomatoes will also grow roots all along the buried stem.

Normally, tomatoes don't need to be planted particularly deep, but it does help them get more water and nutrients. More nutrients doesn't necessarily mean bigger tomatoes. You have to keep in mind that the nutrient balance also matters (not just the pure amount of a certain one).

Deep tomatoes seem to be easier to dry farm. However deep you plant them, though, make sure there's lots of foliage up top, still. If you plant them super deep but only leave a few leaves up top, they might take a long time to grow big, but if you have plenty of leaves up top, they should grow fast.

If you want big tomatoes (since I brought it up) get a variety that gets big in your climate and conditions, and make sure it gets enough potassium, phosphorus and magnesium. Not all tomatoes are the same, and many have different requirements. Where do you live?

I recommend saving your seeds every year (from tomatoes with the traits you like the most) and regrowing them, because it should help whatever variety you're growing to adapt better to your conditions. Landracing could be even better, but you might not have room for that. :)

As someone mentioned earlier, container gardening can also be great. I know someone who said she got about 100lbs of tomatoes from one Early Girl tomato plant in a container with nothing but Miracle Gro potting soil. She may have fertilized with Miracle Gro, too, but I think the only fertilizer was that which the soil came fertilized with.

The problem with containers is that they can dry out fast in at least some climates. Having a narrow opening at the top may decrease evaporation (but unless your soil drains well, it may make watering take longer).

My first attempt at tomato gardening was also in a grassy area. They did very well because I dug a hole past the grass roots and put some fertilizer in the hole and mixed the soil and fertilizer. Each year was worse because of Nematodes till I was forced to go to pots. I am in Miami, Florida so the seasons and most rules are different here.

Hello all, sorry for being very lazy. I've been busy with school and work and now that my laptop is all kinds of problematic I just don't go online on it as much anymore. Here's two pictures of two tomatoes that did very very well during the fall. The others were doing well but the one on the bottom in particular was super healthy. I think it was because it had the most sun. It was a warm fall and the ones on the grass started growing prolifically. There were no hurricanes but powerful storms did roll through but didn't do as much damage as I anticipated. The pots fell over but the tomatoes and dirt stayed intact. Even though I stopped taking care of them, they grew and grew and sprouted so much tomatoes I didn't know what to do with them (neither did my mom). Before the first frost came I picked every single one even if they were green. After the frost I found the tomatoes were still alive, though their leaves and epidermis were damaged. I wasn't sure whether to cut them and give them a swift death or let them freeze to death. I couldn't cut them because I felt bad so I let them go the slow way. If that first frost never happened they would've been chugging til Dec.

I didn't start growing tomatoes early enough this year. I only have a one week old sun gold now and a Paul Robeson that just sprouted. Makes me sad, but I've been busy and tired. Also my dad beat me to the punch and took all my pots and except two and used them for his own vegetables.

Also, through this whole thing I found a new career path called "horticultural therapy" which I am now taking classes for. Hoping to spread the pleasures of gardening while helping people feel better.

Thanks for all the support/criticism/interest/input/whatever. It's been a real learning experience. I know I'm making it sound like I'm never coming back but I will if there's something worth logging in for :)

Btw goodground, I'm not a moocher but I am interested in those Brandywine seeds :P