every root of a maple you cut ... will result in a half dozen new feeder roots ...

and since they are rather surface rooted ... why start the whole project by creating the potential of more maple roots ...

the only thing i never figured out ... was how to plant the H without cutting the roots... so that the tree wont grow roots in the hosta hole ...

you left out the rest ... bare root the plant.. plant in native soil ... never fert or you will just feed the tree .. and never fert in the planting hole... or you will encourage the tree to out compete the hosta ... and never water just the hosta ... broadcast all water ...

spray the RU on say monday ... by wed/thurs .. you can tell what was missed... respray ... by weekend ... cover all in mulch ... game over ...

technically.. as soon as it dries... you can walk on it ...

i have to recall an old post name.. and see if i can find it .... to give you some ideas ...

ken

see link ...

note the hose in one of the pix ... to do an edge

obviously not a hosta bed.. but you should get the idea ...

ken

I prepped a bed on a grassy area late 2012 by spraying roundup and let it do it's thing for a few days. Then I covered the area with newspaper and put compost mulch on the paper and let it sit all winter. In the spring I didn't turn over the area, just dug holes and planted. The newspaper is all disolved now.

WooHoo! Wait till I tell DH!!! This will make his day (and his summer)!

Ken, I don't see a link.... But I believe your point is to use a garden hose to design the edge? That's a great tool!

Wow. I do feel enabled, er, I mean empowered... LOL!

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1829352/developing-new-beds?n=4

bumped it in the conifer forum also ... but i dont see it yet

I HATE WHEN I FORGET THE LINK .... lol

ken

Thanks! Fantastic illustration and instructions. I'm excited to do this and see it come together!!

send a 6 pack ... of whiskey in lieu of extreme hard work ...

not the real good stuff ... as i dont want to sour myself from the carp i usually have to buy ... lol ...

something in the middle range would be fine ...

scotch if you cant find whiskey for some reason ...

ken

I agree with degregory. Why do you want to remove the grass and attached topsoil. Roundup is optional. Once you have cut the grass short, covered it with at least 4 layers of newspaper and compost, chopped leaves in fall and mulch, this will all compost in site and next spring you can plant there. I have done it successfully. This is called Lasagna gardening. The wisdom here is for under maples to fertilize and water the whole area the same, not hostas only..

I use thin cardboard instead of newspaper....

this will all compost in site and next spring

==>>> my way ... you can be done by august

his way ... ready next spring for planting ...

6 of this ... half dozen ... etc ...

ken

Yeah... I'm not planning to plant it until next spring anyway. I tried the lasagne method on a smaller bed once and had a lot of grass continuing to find its way up. Eventually I won, but it was frustrating. Afterwards I decided that I had not smothered it well enough with the newspaper (cardboard might have worked better). I also found it hard to collect enough leaves, grass clippings, etc., to cover adequately, and I had to buy a lot of stuff. I think I'll go with the Roundup, then mulch.

I'm glad to learn about the approach to dealing with the tree - water and fertilize evenly. I'll definitely keep that in mind with all of my beds!

Ken - it's a deal... but - Scotch is whiskey isn't it? There's Irish (my personal fave), Scotch and bourbon (except bourbon is a blend I think?). Oh well, I don't know how they make it, I just know what I like!!!

do you have any idea how to apply RU ...

if not ... start a new post .. i dont want to bury it here ...

ken

My DH has used it for years on weeds in the lawn - just here-and-there.... We're planning to cut the edge of the bed, thru the roots - so we don't get 'dead streaks' running into the lawn (apparently this has happened to him, although I don't honestly pay much attention to the grass). We'll use a big piece of cardboard to protect other plants from any possible overspray. Gloves, of course.... And definitely not on a windy day! Does that sound right?

I am excited about this, because I had been of the understanding that it stayed in the soil a lot longer than it apparently does, and I didn't think I'd be able to plant for a looong time after using it. So glad I was reading here the other day.

The grass has to actively growing so the roundup will go into the roots. You should not cover the area with cardboard/newspaper/mulch what ever until the roundup has a chance to work. Check the label. I only affects the stuff you spray it on. I don't believe there is any residual effect.
Sorry to bury application info, but I don't want to start another thread...

Finally, something I know something about. My DH is a Certified Crop Advisor (CCA) licensed by the state of Missouri. This certification is required by our state for those who deal with herbicides on a large scale.

Anyway, he's told me many times that RoundUp becomes inert when it comes into contact with the soil. RoundUp kills only green-and-growing -- everything: weeds, grass, flowers, hostas, etc. You must protect desired plants from the overspray.

Thanks, this is great! Yes - I meant the large piece of cardboard only to shield nearby shrubs (when we get close) while spraying. I won't cover anything - until the grass is dead, and then I'll cover it with a good thick layer of mulch.

The leaves might look dead, but the roots are still alive for a while....

From Chemistry World magazine, Sept. 15:

California’s Environmental Protection Agency (Cal/EPA) intends to list the herbicide glyphosate – the active ingredient in Monsanto’s RoundUp – as a carcinogenic chemical under the Proposition 65, which requires the state to publish a list of chemicals known to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. Theannouncement came on 4 September, following a conclusion by the World Health Organisation’sInternational Agency for Research on Cancer in March that glyphosate is a probable human carcinogen.

Sales of the product are not restricted by the Cal/EPA listing, but adding glysophate to the Prop 65 list would mean that businesses will be required to provide a ‘clear and reasonable’ health warning on Roundup and other glyphosate products. World usage of glyphosate is at an all-time high, with its use increasing more than 20-fold since 1990, according to the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD). The conservation advocacy group says this upsurge is largely due to the widespread adoption of crops, particularly corn and soy, which are genetically engineered to withstand what would otherwise be fatal doses of glyphosate.Recent research also indicates that chronic, low-dose exposure to glyphosate can cause liver and kidney damage, and studies have pointed to glyphosate as a leading cause of the decline in monarch butterflies.

In the last month I did what others suggested. I wanted to simplify my lawn mowing and converted a part of lawn under a large Eastern white pine into a hosta bed for 14 inch tall streaked seedlings of this year 2015. That area has a little slope.

I changed borders by moving existing black plastic border strips as required. That took some work in sandy clay with many surface roots of the tree. Then I sprayed the area inside those new borders with Roundup. The next days I covered this area with 4 layers of newspaper, and covered that up with several bags of brown mulch.

After 2 weeks, looking at my 14 or so large seedlings needing a home, and planning to transplant 2 large existing hostas as focal points, I decided to plant everything now. The weather was perfect and I had sprinklers in place. For each plant I dug a 2 ft wide and 1 ft deep hole, amended with compost and some cow manure, planted and covered the area back with that brown mulch. I discarded already decaying newspaper and grass and cut roots I had dug up. Actually not much of that area was not dug up. All plants are happy, and I keep watering them regularly.

We'll use gloves and maybe a mask.... And take our chances. I don't plan to make a habit of spraying with Roundup all the time, or needing to, for that matter. So "chronic exposure" shouldn't be an issue.

And remember (back in the 70's) Chevy Chase reported on SNL Weekend Update: "white mice cause cancer."

Think how happy the bees and butterflies will be went I have lots of blooming plants instead of just grass!

If you're healthy enough to use your hands and arms, why nor simply pull out unwanted plants? Exercise isn't all that bad for you, is it? And a little digging sometimes also does not hurt much if at all. Getting dirty and sweaty is for some of us an essential part of gardening.

If you are at all concerned about the little critters in your yard and your own health why take the chance with Roundup? There may be a tiny chance that this product is completely harmless, but that's not likely. So why not skip its use? Only a lazy, inept mind will want to be deluded about this. It is foolish to have the faith that a poison that kills grass will not have an effect elsewhere.

Keep in mind the tactics used for decades by the cigarette makers, which included hiring shills and "regulation capture" . . . getting at the truth and acting accordingly was not an easy stroll on the lawn.

Yes indeed. And I will have pictures!

Joesphines says: "I would not berate Or judge others for using it but ... "

To borrow and rework some lines from John Donne: No garden is an island, entire of itself. Every garden is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.

Poisons in the garden become a part of other gardens. A ripple in the water spreads . . .