I tend to think that anything "forbidden" or "banned" is put on many young people's "to do" or "must try" list. They believe that they're invincible and going to live forever ~ literally.

I don't think you guys are giving young people enough credit. Most people I see smoking are middle aged. I can't remember the last time I saw a high school or college aged person smoking - most find it really gross and dangerous. But I live in California so maybe that has something to do with it. Lifestyles are generally healthier in this area.

I live in coastal California too. I also periodically visit the general area where I think you are. I believe you when you say that you rarely see young people smoking, and you can believe me when I say I see it all the time.

I do too, and i am shocked by it. Years ago, we didn't know the harm in smoking. Now we do. Yet, young people smoke anyway.

I agree with Snidely. Kids will smoke, drink and do drugs if they want to.

In my town, underage drinking in rampant . Unfortunately, there are households that allow drinking in their homes! Sad, but true.

We had a DARE program for many years that was discontinued because they realized it was not effective. The program started in fifth grade but did not actually help with the statistics by the time the kids got to middle or high school.

Where I live there are many young people and I see them all the time smoking. I have seen groups in parks smoking, at their schools or across the street from their school. I see them driving and smoking. Actually I don't see alot of older ones smoke, more young people it seems here. There was a period saw nothing and especialy in the car but now I see it everywhere smoking.

I agree with Snidely also. I live in California too and I see kids smoking all the time. What I really find strange is these kids are also the ones who do the whole "healthy" Natural foods thing....vegan,vegetarian, no carbs, etc. They sit nibbling at their organic salads and gluten free whatever and smoke. I hardly know any older people who still smoke. you see more kids smoking outside of foo foo we serve organic and range free, don't use animal fat ,serve gluten free toast and you must try our veggie burger places than you do outside fast food places. LOL

Justlinda has it right also. Banning things does not work.

So you can vote, enlist in the military and are considered an "adult" at age 18, but can't smoke til 21? Hmmmmmm

So you can vote, enlist in the military and are considered an "adult" at age 18, but can't smoke til 21? Hmmmmmm

Can't drink, either. Yes, young people smoke, old people smoke. Oh, wait, people who smoke tend to just LOOK old with the wrinkles.

Today seat belts save thousands of lives and thousands of dollars. They were also pooh-poohed by the public when the laws were introduced. Heck, *traffic laws* were derided when they were introduced.

Few teens are adults in my book. I'm not sure 21 is old *enough* to rate adult status today. You wouldn't know that some "college KIDS" are adults.

The military needs bodies. Accepting teenagers is one way to get them.

Prohibiting the sale of alcohol and tobacco products to children seems so obvious. It sounds as though some here would favor letting the tobacco companies give cigarettes away to young people -- as was the case during WWII. Hook 'em early.

Go ahead and prohibit alcohol and tobacco products, just like during the Prohibition, but these products will be consumed anyway, and NO I don't advise handing out cigarettes to young people (shaking head wondering where you got that idea). Go after the tobacco companies to stop making these products...ya, go ahead....see how far you get with that idea also. Not going to happen I tell 'ya!

I do not advice handing out cigarettes to children. Maybe the governments making these laws needs to decide what age a child becomes an adult. THAT was my point.

Amen, amen, amen justlinda! Aint no lives going to be saved or health cost drain being plugged. (That's not what drains health costs any way! that's a post for another time)

Prohibiting won't work. Stopping the ads worked. That was worthwhile legislation.

Prohibition ended -- but we still prohibit sales of alcohol to Under-21's. Do kids still find ways to get alcohol? Of course they do, but a store selling to them faces stiff fines and even revocation of their liquor license.

Now Hawaii will prohibit sales of tobacco and e-cigarettes to Under-21's. Will they still find ways to get these things? Yes, but stores will face fines and having all their tobacco sales prohibited.

Justlinda -- It's *because* we can't seem to prohibit companies from making and marketing tobacco products that we can only try other ways to make the poison less readily available to the most vulnerable -- kids with poor decision-making ability.

Katlan -- Just as we are stymied by tobacco makers, the military stymies efforts to raise the age to enlist. Incompletely formed brains are ideal 'commodities'.

How can we call someone Adult when we know the 'impulse control' portion of the human brain isn't complete until age 23? (Proof is all around us -- along with some exceptions.)

The marketplace is back and forth about who is an adult, depending on profit/loss. When an entity is subject to losses do to immaturity, Under-21's are not granted the same status as adults.

In Hawaii, a driver must be at least 25 to avoid paying additional insurance when renting a car. Unless at least one member of a party is over 25, you can't rent a condo from an agency (or from me).

I live in California too and must drive by a high school to get into town. I can't remember seeing any smokers ever at that high school, like when I was in school. There was a group that always hung out on the corners and smoked. It seems like all the kids that smoked back then are my neighbors now. Sadly, my neighbor friend smokes. We had them over to dinner and she complained that she can't get any air when the doc asks her to breathe deeply. Years of smoking takes a toll for sure! How do these kids get the money for cigarettes? Not a cheap habit!

So let's raise the legal limit for everything to 23. If they're not fully formed, why should they get to rent apartments, buy cars, or enter any legal contracts? Slippery slope!

California is working to enact the same law. However any 18 year old can still walk in and get a "medical" marijuana card. I put the medical in quotes because the process is a joke. You walk in, tell the doctor you get headaches or have insomnia, pay the fee and there you go. Friday nights at the dispensaries look like people lining up to buy tickets to a teen concert. All those "poor, disabled,sickly" kids dressed to the nines to get their edibles and weed to get their party on and go clubbing. Not to mention all the 12-17 year olds waiting in the parking lot for their older friends to buy their share.

Yeah let's ban cigarettes for under 21 year olds. That'll work.

In the 60's we a weren't allowed to smoke on campus yet that never stopped us from smoking in the bathrooms and in hidden corners of campus, both in junior and senior high.

In the seventies they allowed smoking areas on campus. Didn't change a thing except kids didn't get suspended and the schools got to keep the attendance money.

Now nobody can smoke withing 20 feet of a school which is why you don't see kids smoking in front of the schools anymore. They smoke down the street instead.

I don't know the answer to ending the smoking culture. But I do know that laws based on age restrictions do not work.

Teens definitely still smoke. At least they do around this area because my oldest mentioned it not to long ago. I doubt my kids will ever be smokers because my husband is a long time smoker and they have been drilled since they were young about the horrible effects of it and they have seen the struggle their father has had in trying to quit. He's currently on time number 8 since we've been together. I doubt though increasing the age limit would do anything to prevent it if my kids did decide to start. The teen that doesn't do something just because it's illegal is a rare gem. Honestly I think a better approach would be to have kids volunteer for a month on a cancer ward and have them listen to everyone's story.

The marketplace doesn't consider 18 to be Adult. You can sign a contract at 18, but if money's at stake, you'll need a co-signer. (Furthermore, *because* of your youth, you can get the contract cancelled!)

Banning DOES work. It's one reason you see fewer adults smoking. Companies banned smoking. Restaurants did. Public spaces banned smokers. Remember the sad little gaggle of grey-faced adults sucking up their nicotine outside the back door of your workplace? They are mostly gone (as in expired), and they haven't been replaced by other adults. The only bright spot for tobacco is to hook kids before their minds are up to judging the consequences.

Laws based on age restrictions are all over the place, watchme. I don't agree with the ages stated in all cases, but there are restrictions on drivers, movie-goers, child workers, even whether the 'girl in question' was of consenting age, and on and on. Many exist to protect minors. Some exist to protect the rest of us from the impulsive behaviors of incompletely-wired minors.

The marketplace? Are we at the Agora? Or do you mean in your personal circle?

I'm quite certain all across America, one is quite capable of buying and leasing things at the age of 18.

I disagree, banning doesn't work. Why do you think there were so many clubs during the prohibition?

When I was a teen the legal smoking age here was 18. I was the only one out of a group of 7 girls that didn't smoke. The reason I didn't smoke had nothing to do with the laws. Now in Ontario the legal age is 19, same with the drinking age. There is still just as much underage drinking as there ever was. I would like to think smoking is slightly less popular with more education but it's still a major problem. I tried to do a quick search for up to date usage but got distracted when I came across an article that said Canadian teens have the highest usage of cannabis of the developed countries. So obviously the laws aren't doing to much to prevent that when it's extremely unlikely that the majority of the teens have a medical permit to do so.

This is the latest info from Health Canada on smoking usage. Legal age varies by province, but 18 is youngest age and 19 is oldest age for legality.

Highlights

• In 2011, one in five, or about 5.8 million Canadians smoked--more males (22.3%) than females (17.5%).
• Fewer people are heavy smokers today compared to a decade ago--and more males (23.5%) than females (14.2%) are heavy smokers.
• The smoking rate fell more rapidly among teens (15 to 19 years) than any other age group.
• One in ten 15 to 17 year olds (about 121,000) smoked in 2011. They were three times more likely to smoke in homes where someone smoked regularly (22.4% versus 7.0%).
• Smoking has a substantial impact on health and life expectancy—smokers could lose about 9 years of life expectancy.

So it says smoking rate has fell most rapidly in teens than in any other age group.

actually over the years the policies effected by the Canadian Government have help reduce smoking in Canada. That includes bannings and stricter ID enforcements, etc...

The current trend is still showing a decline but its somewhat slowed this year, however it still signficantly less children smoking now compared to a decade ago.. Same kids are also now health conscious (and reason why McDonald's is hurting)..


http://www.mantrainc.ca/assets/tobaccouseincanada_2014.pdf

Ianna, there was strict ID enforcement even when I was a teen. I worked in retail where we sold cigarettes and we needed to id anyone that looked under 25. That was over 20 years ago. You may not be able to smoke in buildings but smoking is still permitted outside.

I think the second part of your post is the reason for the decline, "Same kids are also now health conscious".

Grr, editing because my computer keeps popping in words in place of other words.

When my oldest brother (by four years) entered our local high school there was a "smoking hall" (still required to be 18? how?). By the time I got there, they were relegated to a spot outside where people didn't have to walk through. Thank goodness! I cannot think of anyone who was a smoker in high school now? But... at university, my freshman/sophomore years of being a bio/chem major, a LOT of people smoked. Those going into the health professions no less. I really don't think it was the age that mattered. I think they just were more open about smoking at that age.

My younger sister smoked at 15. Had to have done so, because she was smoking when pregnant. What an idiot! She'll tell you that. She made all the mistakes. Nothing like being the black sheep.

To say we should make no law because some people will ignore it is specious reasoning. Should there be no speed limits because some people will ignore them? Should we not have made the use of seat belts mandatory because some people won't use them?

I think we should do everything in our power to discourage tobacco use. We have banned advertising of tobacco products. We have run national campaigns to help people quit. These have helped so much that now Big Tobacco is reduced to targeting our children, hoping to addict them before they are old enough to consider the deathly consequences.

Making it illegal to sell tobacco to people under 21 is one more thing we can do. I fail to see how it can hurt, but we'll have to wait to see how much it helps.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3430444/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3586269

http://www.springer.com/psychology/community+psychology/journal/10464

Peer reviewed articles that said legislation merely banning sales was an "ineffective strategy". So, go into this thinking it will be one more thing to do, but with the knowledge, you won't accomplish what you think. I'm sorry, but them's the facts.

Chisue, I didn't see anyone say there shouldn't be laws, just that this particular law and raising the current legal age isn't going to help with the smoking issue. Since I am unfamiliar with the law in Hawaii I looked it up. So smokers will not face any persecution if they are underage, only retailers face fines. How is a retailer facing fines going to deter young people from smoking?

The numbers of young smokers was on a steady decline in both Canada and US when there was more money going towards anti-smoking education. When cutbacks to those programs decline so did the declining number of smokers. Education, not punishments is what makes the most difference in the world.

Hi little monkey , it was certainly supposed to be strict 20 odd years ago but I've seen teens get cigs regardless --which lead to crackdowns as I recall. In any ads bannings, spot checks, graphic photos on cigs covers, hiding cigs fr view certainly all the behind the scene effort of gov to I still a healthier lifestyle has worked.

Too many autocorrect here --grr

I'm just thrilled beyond speech to know the human brain's impulse control centers are fully formed when people are 23. That solves that problem.

Now for this business of making kids enforce the laws. How stupid is that? Holding a cashier responsible and making THEM a criminal because someone attempts to buy something the "bleeding hearts" don't want them to have. Why not hold the ones BUYING them, or attempting to buy them responsible? Seems funny, MADD and all the others don't care about the ones trying to buy them, only the ones trying to earn a living. Sad situation indeed. They're just poor little children? That's the next claim. So hold the parents liable and let the parents sit in jail for their kids actions. Sounds good to me. Maybe some discipline will come back into the fold. And they only have to worry about it until the "bad" kids are 23 anyway, right?

Massachusetts, in 2013, raised the legal age to purchase from 19 to 21. It still stands. Of course, kids get older ones to purchase and on and on it goes.

I don't get you Cynic? I've certainly been carded in my lifetime (not any time recently), and knew I better be of age when they looked at it. And I've been a cashier. I absolutely did my darndest to keep those who weren't of age from having anything.

I once was offered a job driving around with an underage individual (a sanctioned by the state job), wherein the person with me was to go in and try to buy substances. It would've been my job to write up anyone who let them buy it without proper ID. It is totally up to the cashiers, who are trained how to handle this.

If you serve liquor, they'll even require you to take ABC classes. You can't even ring it up if you're under age here.

Another victory for the anti-smoking activists! Can't wait for the complete ban of tobacco. Nasty, dangerous, stinky stuff! Hawaii no ka oi!!!