I didn't want to bog down my post with too much information, but to clarify, I added a 40 Imp. gal Giant brand (made in Quebec) electric water heater in series to the 75 US gal Marathon water heater I spec'd for our house, completed last year. The 105 gal Marathon I initially calculated would be enough for us is not available in Canada. The 75 US gal Marathon is mostly adequate, but the Mrs. wanted a greater reserve capacity, so I am experimenting with this set up. We have 43F incoming water temps in winter. In a few years I want to finish the mechanical room, and then I will buy a second Marathon tank. We have very hard water, 36 (thirty six) grains, with a 70,000 grain softener. I want Marathon tanks due to their polybutylene/fibreglass construction, so no need for a rapidly consumed anode rod, nothing to rust. I know this steel tank won't last long with my heavily softened water, so I just bought a standard tank to see if this combo makes the Mrs. happy. So yes, I placed 3/4 PEX onto a PEX/FIP adapter directly onto the hot water nipple of the Marathon tank. The 18 inch copper stub you speak of is needed for gas water heaters, because of the hot flue right next to the pipes. My Marathon set up from the plumber had 2 BrassCraft flexible copper lines from the nipples to 3/4 PEX that runs throughout the house. We have a recirc line, 3/4 PEX not 1/2 for some reason piped to a Grundfos recirc pump that is plumbed into the drain port of the Marathon tank as per Marathon's recommendations. I removed one flexible copper line to connect the hot Marathon port to the cold Giant port. I thought of installing copper stubs with unions on the Marathon tank, but I had left over PEX so I used that instead. So my number 3 question is can I reuse the flexible copper water heater connector if I choose, or is the crushed copper ring next to the rubber washer a one time only item? If so, are these copper rings available separately? Thanks.

Homebound_ in regards to the non-descript flame characteristics of the TS-4000. If we examine the flame in a common propane torch we see a very descript teardrop shape inner flame, surrounded by a pale outer flame. If you will look down the bore of your TS-4000 burner tip you will see a flat disk that has 6 slots and each segment is then twisted slightly forming a pitch similar to propellar blades. Not only does that diverter increase the swirling effect it also divides the flame into 6 separate but equal flames. Now try this experiment. Pull the trigger and light the flame, then very slowly release the trigger a bit and you will see the flame drop down a bit. With the trigger only slightly depressed you will actually see the 6 points of flame are very distinct but when the trigger is held fully open all six points blend together in what appears as a flat top on the inner flame. In regards to wiping the joint with the flux brush. Many plumbers do that to insure their is a clean line of solder all the way around the joint however I have two reservations against that practice. 1. Wiping a hot joint with the flux brush results in burning the bristles in the brush. When the brush is then placed back in the flux it tends to contaminate the flux with carbon and burnt bristles. 2. Plumbing Flux is acid based and should be wiped off the joint while it is still warm. I prefer to wipe the joints with a clean damp cotton cloth. Coolvt asked about refilling the small cylanders from a larger tank. The reason you cannot find an adapter hose to do so is easy to explain, it simply would not work. Propane is a liquid which boils to a gas before leaving the tank. In order to refill the tank you would need a compressor system similar to a refrigeration compressor to compress the gas to the condensing pressure in order to refill a tank. (While the actual pressures are different the handling characteristics are the same as handling a refrigerant and in fact, propane is listed as a refrigerant.) By example at 30degF the temperature of vaporization of Propane is 30degF while at 70degF it is 128psi and at 110degF it is 197psi. While it is not really prevalent on the small tanks used for hand torches if you have a propane grille you will often see a frost line forming on the outside of the tank after the burner has been burning a while. That frost line on the exterior of the tank is a visible indicator of how much liquid propane is left in the tank. Diyourselfer stated that they now have the TS-8000 out so maybe he should buy that one. I really can't comment on the TS-8000 simply because my old TS-4000's refuse to die...LOL. I bought my first TS-4000 in 1985. About 6 years later I was connecting water lines to a condensate return tank in a boiler room and accidently dropped the torch in the tank. When i fished it out and shock it off the ignighter was not working. I managed to manually light the flame and continue my project. The next day while at the supply house I grabbed a new TS-4000 to replace the original one then a few days later i was in an ACE Hardware store and discovered that they carry a full line of replacement parts. I grabbed a new ignighter assembly and the original was back in business. In fact, that 1985 model is still in the top of my tool box and working fine. Last year someone gave me a new TS-4000 for Christmas and it sat on the floor beside my desk for months, occassionally being used as a cigarette lighter...LOL. One day the pilot went out on the water heater so I went to gtab my torch by the desk to light the pilot and the torch was gone. I asked my wife if she knew where it went and she replied,"Yes, I have it in the kitchen and I am keeping it there!" I said, what do you need a propane torch in the kitchen for" and was i amazed at her reply, She says, "I use it when i am making pies. I saw a chef on a TV cooking show use one to brown the peaks on the lemon marangue pie topping so I tried it and it works great. If you need a cigarette lighter I will buy you one, but I am keeping the torch!"

We had a plumber come out to give an estimate to fix a leaky toilette and a leak in a basement ceiling. He wanted $1,100 to fix two leaks with the toilette being about $400. I did get some lower offers for about $300 to $400, but even at that, I have several more things to fix and at that rate it was going to be pretty costly. And I've read some other people's here and their prices are pretty high. Like $180 for ONE outdoor faucet. Before trying shark bite, or gator bites, I taught my self to weld pipes with a torch and solder etc. I did a couple and was pretty proud of it and saved like $400 for a water heater pipe repair. The reason I didn't try the shark bite at that point is that I couldn't find them near by so tried using the torch that time a year back or so. But now this week I noticed shark and gator bites at Lowes and Home Depot and decided to try them out. I had to go to both stores since some parts were sold out. I used it to replace the outdoor faucet with a washerless, ball faucet in the front of the house And was amazed. IT WORKED! And even though I knew how to use a torch, felt like it was easier. Besides I would have had to put something flame retardant in the basement to weld because there are wooden beams there. Or at least spray with water. But now I didn't even have to worry about it. I only had to cut the pipe in the basement, and use a gator bite coupling and push the two pipes together. Then I did the same for the faucet by screwing it onto a shark bite part and then pushing it onto the pipe. It was easy. I was worried about it leaking, but I've checked and no leaks. Not even a drip. Nothing. It sealed perfectly. Now tomorrow, I am going to replace the other out door faucet on the back of the house. No more miserable, leaking 20 year old faucet. And now I have 3 or 4 more repairs I've been putting off all lined up. Over all, I like Shark Bites. You can also get Gator Bites at Lowes or other places.

copper should never be cut by any means other than a tubing cutter. When copper is cut with a tubing cutter the rotating action helps maintain the tubing in perfect roundness. When cut with a saw the ripping action of the saw will tend to distort the copper slightly out of round. There is only 0.001" clearance between the tubing and a fitting. If the copper is even slightly out of round it is extremely difficult if not impossible to make up the joint. My favorite cutter is a Superior Tool "Proline" mini cutter available at Lowes, HD and most hardware stores. Expect to pay about $10 for it, but i can assure you it is worth its weight in gold when you have to make cuts in tight places. Imperial Eastman also makes a professional grade mini cutter but they are generally only found in HVAC supply stores. When looking in your hardware you will also see a small red mini cutter for about $5. Take a tip from experience, unless you are in dire need of a fancy weight for your fishing line, don't waste your money.