Well, I finally did it...overseeded the 10-month-old TTPR/KBG lawn with TTTF and KBG...and it worked! So it can be done...but read on to find out how I did it...I was quite careful due to what people on here had told me about the PR messing with the germination of other seed due to allelopathy. I did this a little over a month ago now. I actually prefer the lawn consisting of a mixture of these three species, guess I'm odd since no one else here seems to like that three-way mix). We're at ~4.5 weeks now. The existing PR thankfully did not prevent or delay germination of the new seed. The TTTF started to come up within 6 days, and was fully up in about 3 weeks time. The KBG just started coming up last week. Perhaps it wored so well because the PR was only 10 months old. Or b/c it got heat stressed. Or b/c I mowed it to ~1.8 inches before hand on the last mowing before starting the project. I also thinned the lawn fairly drastically prior to over seeding, by utilizing heavy core aeration (three passes) and also verticutting (two passes). I brought up a lot of dead and living grass in the process. I'm currently touching up the few spots that need it with a little extra seed. Here are some photos of the project (same area plus or minus a foot or two) at the various stages for reference (I do consider it a successful outcome even if it was my first time doing it and I learned a lot!): The top photo is the before photo, taken on 8/17/12. The middle photo is about ten days after overseeding, on 8/29/12. You can see the existing PR and KBG, and the TTTF was in the midst of germination, but is hard to see in the pic. And the bottom photo is from 9/21/12, taken right after the first mowing and application of starter fertilizer (I decided to hold off on the fertilizer until after germination so as to slow the growth of the existing grass to prevent it from overtaking the new grass. I'm glad I did this). Here is what I used for overseeding: -TTTF (approx 75% Firecracker LS and 25% Bullseye) -KBG (approx 33% each of America, Bewitched, and Rugby II) -A low amount of the existing TTPR seed blend (see below) was mixed with the fescue and KBG seed; I only used this in those areas that were really bare after the verticutting/raking. In this way, I created a uniform lawn in the bare spots that blended with the old grass. (The existing lawn prior to overseeding was a blend of KBG and three cultivars of TTPR sourced from from Allied Seed: ASP6005, ASP6002, and ASP 6001.)

Hi everyone! Regardeng BLACKBERRIES, we, on the opposie side of the pool, have the same problems of OVERWINTERING the canes and the flower buds. Admittedly I yet have no own experience as I got interested in blackberries only this fall when discovered the existance of the new thornles and prolific varieties. So I read all that was worth reading in the Russian and US internet, especially the rather high-profile specialised forums of our blackberry enthusiasts.. I discovered that throughout Russia and Kazakhstan which both have areas with very serious frosts blackberry growing in those is nevertheless quite successful. Maybe someone here would benefit from their experience same as e.g. you grow plums of Russian origin such as ptitsin and fofanoff. Apparently Blackberries can bring huge yealds in climates with very low winter temps, even downing to -40C for rather ptolonged periods. The TECHNIQUE below allows overwintering without much problem. Plus some easy principles to follow. 1. All blackberries need to be laid down and covered for the winter, preferably after the first frost when the land is frozen. To ensure that this task is easy and hassle free: 2. Choose thornless varieties only. Those with thorns are said to be hell to lay and cover. 3. In early summer watch for the new canes (primocanes) to emerge. As soon as a shoot reaches 15-20cm carefully bend it 90 degrees and secure with a metal peg. When the cane grows another 40-60cm, secure it parallel to the ground with yet another peg. After it reaches 1 m let it grow as it will but better tie to the lowest string of the trellis Which gets them out of the way. Do not tip the ends as this would increase the leaf mass. Do the bending for all the emerging primocanes. 4. In autumn at the time of first frosts when all the fruiting canes have long been cut down lay the primocanes in lines stretched along one side of the trellis. Peg them to the ground, cover with two layers of 60g/m2 thick white non-woven fabric and secure all sides to the ground with no holes. This is said to help greatly even if serious frosts come before the snow. In milder and wetter climates they also put a plastic film layer on top of the fabric, leaving however the end bits open so there is always air circulation. The advice here is to experiment as all natural circumstaces differ. 5. Take off the cover layers gradually, and completely only after all danger of frost is over. By then the canes are likely to bear some yourg leaves and side shoots, but this is ok. Raise them carefully as the canes of come varieties are brittle, and tie to the trellis. 5. Winer frosts may not be a problem for blackberries, but summers need to be warm or hot. The shorter and milder/cooler the summers, the earlier fruiting varieties should be chosen. 6. Floricane varieties like PA Freedom in cooler and shorter summer climates may very sucessfully fruit if treated in the same way as other primocanes, i.e. as above, in a two-year culture. They would be one of the earliest to perform. If you have any questions do feel free to write me, I will try to help with more information. cathpetro at gmail dot com.

Much of my "success" with Marion (as well as Wild Treasure, Silvan and a few others) is due to the persistent winter snow cover of 18 to 30 inches (45-75cm). Still, it can be a challenge for them to survive extended periods of real cold (-30 to -40F; 35-40C) as the ground here is quite cold to begin with. The real threat to survival each year is the period from mid-October to mid-November before the snow pack gets established. Temperatures can drop below 0F/-18C, with is lethal to canes and buds. I lay the canes on the ground and cover them with several layers of Agribon 30 or 50. However, experience has shown that there has to be a 3-4 inch (8-10 cm) dead air space between the cover and the canes for the canes to survive air temps to -10F (-23C). I intend to experiment with additional air spaces between the layers. At the other end of the season, I am limited by a lack of heat. While I can get a full crop off of Wild Treasure, I only get half a crop off of the other varieties unless I cut the canes off and bring them inside to ripen - so glad I read about that on this forum. I also use early season extension techniques. If it weren't for the wonderful taste of Marion and Silvan berries, I probably wouldn't keep them. Wild Treasure is thornless and very easy to work with, which is good, since it is extremely vigorous even here. Over a dozen new canes each year, each reaching 6 to 10 ft (2 to 3 m). Even with protection, about half dies back over winter. In a good year I'll get about 4 lbs (2 kg) of the best berries I've ever tasted.

As you mentioned, primocane-fruiting blackberries can provide fruit in colder climates. My PrimeArk 45's start fruiting around September 1st and continue to the first frost at mid-October. My last Spring frost is usually the last week in April. That should give you an idea of the days needed for fruiting to take place on that variety. Two years ago I had a late Fall frost and the variety continued to produce until December 1st, although the fruit quality declined as the daylight became shorter. If you want to add a week or two to your growing days, you might be able to add a black ground covering that would potentially warm the ground faster.