I wouldn't agree. Don't worry about being perceived a bad guy. He's already proved not to be a good neighbor. Just tell him that a fence that tight on your driveway will make it difficult getting in and out and cut your visibility. As for him not hurting anything by being on your property, let him know that your insurance doesn't look favorably on unauthorized usage by people not living on the property. He'd be the first to have his firends sue if they fell and broke a limb on your driveway. Should one of his planes break a window, he wouldn't pay to have it fixed. It's your property. Make sure it stays that way.

I don't understand a "rule/law" requiring anyone wanting to fence their yard to give up 3 foot width of land the length of their fence to their neighbor.

In my opinion a property line is just that and that is where fences belong.

I could see requiring the fence the neighbor doesn't want needing to be placed inside the property line by a few inches so it doesn't encroach on their land, but three feet!!?

Is this an HOA rule? It certainly doesn't sound lawful.

I would not agree. I would suggest to him to have an area of his yard set aside for an electric dog fence. They work great and are not unsightly like a fence, and probably not as expensive.
Sue

Presumably the "where does a fence go" rule is just part of the normal local code for setbacks, etc., No matter, it is what it is.

The problem is that your driveway is too close to the property line. A fence 3 feet into your property would be even worse for you. If you want to keep them/their things out off your land, the solution is a fence, and the best place for it is on the property line.

The matter you need to decide is about this and nothing else - don't confuse yourself with extraneous feelings or the baggage of history that really are both irreverent to this question. You don't need to be happy or unhappy - you need a fence and the property line is the best place FOR YOU. Do it.

Sue_va, the neighbor is already using an electric dog fence that I allowed him to install on MY property last year so that the dog could use all of HIS property. The dog just ignores it and takes off after anyone/anything it sees walking down the street, thus he's decided that a fence is required.

This neighbor also put up a screened-in patio type thing two years ago that's too close to my property line and I guess because I didn't say anything then he just keeps pushing and pushing.

The main rule at my location is that the fence can go to the property line, but none of it can be over the line. Also, the finished side must face the neighbor, not the owner. This means that posts and braces have to be on the owner's property side.

There are other restrictions on height. I'm not sure, but it seems that a backyard fence may be as tall as 6 ft, the front side fence must be lower and there can be no restriction of a neighbor's view of the roadway and sidewalk when backing a car onto the street.

In regard to party animals' vehicles slopping onto my property, the first time it happens, I kindly show the next door occupant where the lot line is, and note there is plenty of space on is lawn. The next time it happens, I call the police about an unknown vehicle left on my property and ask for it to be towed away. This has not happened with family renters, but did happen with a group of young males who cared nothing about anyone else were there. I do not like to antagonize a bunch of roughs, but when it gets out of hand, I do take a stand. Usually, that is the end of it.

In special cases, I do permit parking on my property if they ask. Parking is not allowed on the street in front of our homes, but is allowed on side streets. Special cases include important family celebrations such as graduations, marriages, reunions, and visiting relatives.

A little more information, in light of a fence being beneficial to you in keeping out the dog...

Does he have a type property where the fence could easily be placed 3' back from the prop line? Could he still access the side of his house if that is what is there for maintenance, painting, mow a strip easily if it's grass?

And, could you park in your driveway and open your drivers door and passengers door and have everyone exit your car comfortably if he placed a fence that close to your drive?

Would the fence encroach on any plantings in between?

snidely, the patio thing he built has made a huge difference in wind flow and causes snow-drifts in my driveway, so I think the fence would make it worse.

jemdandy, here any fencing facing the street has to be the 'good side'. Any fencing facing a neighbors side yard or back yard can be the opposite. Has nothing to do with the neighbors, only the view from the city street. I know, not very neighborly ;)

If the patio is within code and the setback rules that govern your block, you don't have a say or have to like it. If it's not within the restrictions, call the planning department.

Anytime someone feels motivated to keep score in a relationship (whether it's a personal one, a business one, or a neighborhood one), they lose. Guaranteed.

Things are allowed, they're not allowed. It's not personal, it's not emotional, don't do favors or expect them back.

morz8, yes, he could place the fence 3' back from the property line and still access everything for maintenance/mowing. He currently has the patio thing he built at the back of the yard which is about 6" from the property line, and he put in a veg garden near the front that runs up to the property line too. He intends to build the fence as an "L" shape across the back of his veg garden and running down the property line to attach to his patio.

Although where I live, the rule for side fences is the property line, I have heard of setbacks, especially in situations like PMs where there's a driveway near the property line. It's expected that the owner of the fence will put plants on the outside of it.

The important thing is to be non-confrontational. Say something like, "I'm sorry. The rule is 3' for good reason and I'd feel very uncomfortable with a closer fence." Don't discuss it further. Just say no. You don't have to give reasons for him to argue with. If you have to make a further statement say you believe in following the rules as written and don't wan to make an exception you'll be stuck with, like the previous owners did on your other side. Stick to your guns. Be polite. Be firm.

Would it be possible for you to agree to a fence on his property less than the 3 foot setback (if you are comfortable with that)? Maybe say you'd agree to a 2' setback if that would help him (and make you appear cooperative). Sounds like your neighbor could be the kind of person who will do what he wants and it will be on you to get a lawyer to stop him. If you think the patio thing he built is in violation, think quickly about whether you want take action or it may become too late to make him move it.

I have similar neighbors who built their woodshed and their chicken coop
on my property. I finally had it surveyed and they had to move both.
They then pulled out the survey stakes, so the next day, I built a fence. They were
not happy. Nor was I about the expense they caused me. I don't envy you because it ruined our relationship, but they are not vindictive, just unfriendly now.

It's expected that the owner of the fence will put plants on the outside of it.

If the neighbor felt pressured/or that it was unreasonable that he place his fence over by three feet I dread to think what those plants might end up being. Many plants would encroach on a lot more than a fence and the owner would have to come on the other's property to tend to them.

I think it's important to pick your battles wisely. If there are truly valid reasons to have the fence off the property line then discuss it with the neighbor. Like Snidely said, history and not liking someone shouldn't play into it.

Is there a reason he can't put the fence somewhere in the area of the three-feet zone? I would think you'd want a fence up between him and you. He sounds like a lousy neighbor, and a fence would work to keep his guests from playing on your yard. I'd ask him to put it up on the inner-most 2 or 3-foot line, and then I'd plant trees on my side of the fence.

Sign my name to Plllog's post. Women often feel they must give a lot of reasons/excuses for saying no, but it's rarely a good idea.

Better to be the bad guy than the miserable guy.

Your neighbor sounds like the kind that would take advantage of any situation, and I think he already has. With neighbors like him I'd put up my own fence. But let him build it inside his 3' zone.

I think the 3' rule is weird and pretty useless unless you like looking at 3' wide rows of unmowed grass and weeds. I would much prefer a nice tall wooden fence between my house and the pushy neighbors house. 3 feet isn't enough to make much difference in anything, IMO. Good fences make for better neighbors.

Thank you everyone for the replies and opinions! I can see all sides of the situation -- good and bad -- and I know he's been manipulating me with his activities and requests. The very first day I owned the property he came over and asked if he could take that 3 foot strip of mine at the edge of my driveway and turn it into garden for himself. I've been dealing with this stuff for 15 years from him. lol!

I had a brilliant thought this morning and decided to try to contact someone in the village so that I could get the real facts! I was told that the village requires all fences to be constructed TWO feet inside the property line AND the neighbor will require a zoning permit just to do that! I was also told that if he wants to place the fence on our property line that he not only needs my approval, he also needs to get a variance from the zoning board of appeals. I will let him know.... it definitely puts the ball back in his court.

The stupid thing is that he claims the fence is needed to keep the dog in his yard, but he isn't fencing the other side -- it will be wide open! :p

The neighbor needs to follow local construction codes. Protect your property; don't give in.

Then this make absolutely no sense! Closed on one side and open on the other? It obviously won't keep the dog in.

I would say, "No thanks, unless you are going to fence the other side, your original reason is a moot point." Said with a smile.

Side note: I despise neighbors like this. We owned a country house for many years. The houses faced the water and docks on either side were attached. So you could walk from one to another. For years we had nice neighbors. But then, a new family bought the house. They had lots of company (sometimes camping out on the lawns) which was annoying when they socialized and played loud music. Or, use a smelly outdoor portable chimney that made us gag.

But, what annoyed me the most, was when we came up one weekend to find them on our dock. Ours had more sun and they were sunbathing. Her excuse was for us to feel free to use her dock! Well, I didn't want to use her dock and I didn't want her on mine.

What used to be a peaceful get-a-way turned into aggravation. We wound up selling our house to them, they tore it down to have more space. (We made a huge profit!)

I don't understand how people can be so selfish and not care about how their lifestyle can impede on others

I would gladly mow that 3' strip if I thought a fence on the property line was too close to my driveway and would hinder getting in and out of the car, etc. You can't move your driveway, but he can move his fence closer to his house.

Try to negotiate something you both are happy with first. If you can't, then don't give in to this inconsiderate neighbor and enforce the 3' rule with no apologies. You accommodated him with the electric fence, now it's his turn to accommodate you.

it sounds like the patio was built on his own property so you probably would not have had any recourse there unless maybe it obstructed a scenic view.

In the end, you will be happy with a fence no matter where it is...it will keep his dog, his family and friends off your property.

(What gall to argue with you when you asked him not to fly little planes into your house or hang out in your yard.....I can only imagine his reaction if you were flying planes into his house and had your friends cavorting in his yard)!

I like the "they made the law 3' for good reason and I'm comfortable with the law." I wouldn't want a fence any closer.

Huh? A fence on one side to contain the dog? what ellendi said and add the village 2' rule, permit and variance. Case closed.

Here in the USA, Colorado, there is a utility easement, but a fence can be put "ON" the property line. I think it's great he's paying for the fence and not asking YOU to pay half....which they often do here. Let him fence his whole property in....

I think you need to say no. The three foot law is a common law.
I wouldn't let him push me.

better still call the city and see if he's pulled permits for the fence...

How do we know he's not planning to fence the other side? There are 3 sides to every story. Her side, his side and the truth which usually lies somewhere in the middle. First it was posted it was "law" that the fence was to be 3 feet inside the builder's property line. Now "someone" the village said it is 2 feet. We have hearsay of other neighbors saying he was flying planes into the house.

The dog is a problem. He's trying to make it not a problem. He didn't just bury the electric fence on her property, he asked for and received permission. He didn't simply plant a garden on her property, he asked for and was denied permission. Apparently he accepted her response or is there now a garden he planted anyway?

The only thing that is obvious is that the OP dislikes this neighbor for whatever reason. Perhaps there is a valid reason. But the comment about the neighbor on the other side having already built the fence and being "stuck" with it says something too. It says the OP wants to penalize her neighbors for putting up fences by yielding 3 feet of property to her. Let's see, 3 feet on each side equals 6 feet of extra land by whatever the length of the fences are. That can add up to some pretty decent extra square footage.

It's really quite simple. If there is a valid reason for the fence to not be put on the property line that would create hardship then it needs to be discussed. Not here but with the neighbor. Neighbors can compromise but not if they are being raked over the coals on the internet unbeknownst to them.

I can't believe some of the pettiness I see here. Seriously? Being angry because someone sunbathed on an adjoining dock one wasn't using at the time in a shared body of water?

Sort of reminds me of people who move to the country and then complain that the neighbors cows smell.

Very simple I would get a copy from the city of the exact information that they quoted to you and present it to him stating it is not a simple yes or no answer the city must be involved period and I will adhere to the existing city ordinance to keep things easy. I would also consult with your city about his construction of the patio, did they approve it did he get permits for it and is it legal to be there. They very well could make him remove it.

That happened to the guy behind us at one of our houses, he built a small building in his back yard on a concrete slab and put it right up against our fence. We never said anything about it but the city sure did, he had failed to get permits and he had put it encroaching the property line which was not allowed. They made him take it down completely including the slab. He always thought we had something to do with it but we didn't it didn't bother us since we could just see the roof of it. The city has people who drive around looking for infringements plus another neighbor could have reported him. He was not well liked by most of the neighbors.

Every home we have owned the rules were fences were allowed on the property line and if there was an easement for utilities it had to be free and clear. Here ours are on the property line with the easement in the back yard three feet inside the fence so we can't plant or build or put anything on the easement.

Go to City Hall. Get two copies of the zoning laws. Read them. See if the neighbor's patio appears to be conforming or nonconforming. If it isn't, and you want to do something about that, ask at City Hall if he got a permit for the project.

Give one copy of the zoning laws to your neighbor and say that you expect him to follow the two-foot setback law. Ask him how he expects to continue the fencing in order to contain the dog.

I've never lived anywhere that the person erecting the fence does not have to build it with the 'good side' facing away from his property.

I'm wondering about the foot of land that will exist between your property and this fence (if it is built with the two-foot setback). I'd guess it will be 'out of sight, out of mind' for your neighbor, and you will maintain it. Is that OK with you?

Seems we are also getting into laws about property that you use and maintain without objection from the rightful owner eventually being seen as *yours* by law. I think that is one good legal reason for placing fences an inch or two within the property line -- the rule where I live.

Do you have a plat of survey showing your property lines. Is it accurate?

chi's comment about maintain the fence has me thinking. If the fence abuts your property, won't he have to be on your property to paint it or fix it? That'd be the clincher for me. I'd want him to keep his mooching, grubby feet off my land.

I would tell him that you looked into the legal aspects of it, and you can't agree to it due to adverse possession potential in the future.

Wow the vitriol being spewed! LOL All over a fence! There's an old saying "Good fences make good neighbors." and I agree with that.

For the most part, watchmelol said much of what I was thinking. And I believe there's more to this story than being told. I often wish we could get a hold of the other parties in some of these disputes when people want "opinions" of what we think and we get one side of the story. Then some start getting a rope, a horse and look for a tree. Probably on someone else's property!

With the obvious hostility here I have to wonder: Is your intention, deep down, to get the free use of his property? You don't want the fence because it will be close to your driveway. Are you currently using his property for access to your car? Or shoveling snow? (Some localities prohibit moving your snow onto your neighbors' properties.) Or are you thinking of a potential Adverse Possession claim down the road on the property?

I think the concern about snow is a legitimate one. However, you could ask for a chain link fence and maybe he'd be amenable to that rather than wood.

Now that it's been dickered down to a two foot setback I know this much: If things got too hostile a neighbor could consider putting up a fence made from old pallets and whatever else they could find and plant the thorniest, ugliest, dirtiest bushes they could get so couldn't use their (effectively) landlocked property or attempt an AP claim on it. What are the rules on a berm? Brick planters? This is why I advise caution. Sometimes things can backfire. You still will have 3 feet of your land even if the fence is put on the line. How much do you need? Is that 2 feet really that valuable? I think I'd ponder that a bit. I'd also check into the law myself. Asking someone doesn't always get you factual info. Much like asking on an internet forum. When someone flings laws at me, I look for other laws. There's usually something else that can apply in some way.

I suspect you're mad at yourself for not checking into the earlier construction. Whether you can do anything about it now is unknown. Much depends on the locale. You sound angry because the other side the fence is a line fence. Why would that make a difference? I don't understand. You also sound angry at yourself that you didn't do anything when they allegedly used your things for their parties. Why wouldn't you call the police if it bothered you so much? Many things don't add up here. And we can't even tune in Paul Harvey for "The rest of the story..." :)

Here, you can't put up a 6' fence other than between the two houses. Otherwise it's either 3' or 4' height restriction. Apparently your area has some really oddball rules. I wonder what the rationale is for such. And as others have mentioned here you cannot put a fence up to the curb, there's a 15' setback for utilities, which makes sense.

I'm confused about his alleged "pushing". He asks permission for most things, bold perhaps but hardly "pushing" AFAIC. I sense you're never going to get along with him and you're not going to do anything to improve the situation, and with some of the venomous comments here prodding you to escalate the tensions I'd just advise caution. You MIGHT make things a LOT worse for yourself. I'm not sure how social you are with the other neighbors, nor do I know how the "villain" gets along with others but if you become the outcast you would also have to be sure everything about you is compliant at all times or someone might start turning you in.

The sad part is a bad neighbor happens now and then. Whether you're the "bad" neighbor or they're the "bad" one it doesn't make for good times. You might snicker a little thinking about stopping him from maintaining a fence you have to look at but you're chopping off your nose as they say when you do something like that. And getting snarky (as some like to say) with him about only part of a fence when you don't know what he's going to do on the other sides, well again, that could backfire.

Before you get too smug about the "zoning permit" it probably means that he goes to the hall, pays $15 or $25 and pulls a permit. It's not complicated. No act of Congress is required for a permit for a compliant fence anywhere that I know of and actually it probably can't be denied as long as he writes the check. And having to go to a Board of Appeals? Someone must have been misinformed. You can't appeal something until action has been taken. I really encourage you to go do your homework so you know where you stand. Don't ask someone over the phone. You'll get all kinds of answers. Get the ordinances. It'll probably cost you for copies of it but some places have it on the internet.

Whatever happens, good luck to all of you. I have a feeling this is not going to have a happy ending for anyone.

So if you both follow the rules and each of you puts up a fence two feet in from the property line, you end up with four feet of "no man's land" . Seems crazy to me. I'd let him put it up unless it makes your lot feel too narrow.

I have not read all the responses so I apologize in advance if this is duplicating anything, however when we were installing a shed not to long ago, our variance by the township was 10 ft. I thought a 20 ft wide variance (10 for each side) was quite excessive and asked why it is so large. The twp said it was for cases of emergency mostly so that if there was a fire or a need for emergency crews to have access to the back it would be available.

Your neighbor seems like a real jerk and I can completely understand your hesitation but if you're not comfortable standing your ground with him why not just tell him that you want to keep the variance for emergency purposes and leave it at that.