No!

Wait times are normal here. Hubby gets his blood pressure checked at the dr's and we can count on over an hour wait to see him.

There was a news article recently about the 2-hour wait that a lady had, to get an allergy shot. She billed the doctor for the 2 hours she had to wait at $75/hour as a Financial Planner.

Why would you go to an HMO doctor who is forced to be over-scheduled when you are not limited to an HMO? HMO insurance is often cheaper *because* they limit patient time with doctors. Try the other doctor.

Dermatology is barely a 'science' anyway, but you do need any precancerous lesions removed.

I certainly would at least try the other doctor and if you like him, goodbye 2 hour wait.

I'm a firm believer in controlling the things you can control. Health care is very important. Your time is also very important. Since you have flexibility with your insurance, use it. Go see the other doctor. If you don't like the other doctor, you can always go back to 2 hour wait doctor.

Maybe pen a message/make a call to the company for whom she works?

Sometimes helps to go to the seat of the problem.

Many docs around here have clients out in about 8 min. (often with mainly a pill), some say. One of the problems in this system is that most docs are independent business people, and it's a single-payer system: when docs send in a bill, the gov't. related agency must pay ... or prove fraud. Sort of a guaranteed income for docs. And there's complaining that there are too few docs ... and it seems as though the gov't. may not be too enthusiastic about certifying a lot more ... I wonder what one of the main reasons might be?

I'm lucky, as my doc is an old-style country doctor, who's business-like but friendly and doesn't rush folks out: though we wait for a while, usually under an hour, no one complains. He's been thinking of retiring ... said a couple of years ago within the next couple of years ... but he ain't gone yet! One lady, who knows him rather well, I think, said a while ago that he'll never retire (or not for quite a while yet), as he loves meeting the people too much to give that up.

As for the "ain't gone yet" - neither am I.

ole joyfuelled

I had a one-hour wait to see an orthopedist this week, and I thought that was bad. Two hours = totally unacceptable, and when you combine it with the fact that you didn't even get to ask your questions, I'd say she didn't deserve the second appointment, much less a second chance.

Her response was certainly unusual. I wonder why it's so important to her that you come back. Think of what she'll have to do to make sure you're taken in immediately; why is she willing to do that? I wonder if they censure doctors in some way if the practice loses a patient. Or maybe this pushes an emotional button for her. To call you at night . . . to give you her cell phone number. Like I said, unusual.

My insurance wants to know if I wait over 30 minutes. I have ONE Dr. that I will wait for. And only one. He is well worth the wait. In 2003 I had my eye exam early morning, then an appointment with him late afternoon. He noticed that my eyes were dialated and questioned me about it. When I explained that I had had the eye exam that morning, and that my eyes are supper light sensitive, and it takes a good 24 hours for my eyes to return to normal, he was very relieved, and told me he would have felt very badly had he not noticed something that needed attention. I love him to pieces! However, when I had my thyroid surgery in 1991, I waited over 3 hours every time I went to that dr. Once to find out that I had a lump and needed surgery, and once for a follow up after surgery. Not only did I have to wait that long, and pay a baby sitter on top of it, he had the worst bedside manner and was rude. He may have known what he was doing, and been very good at it, but I never went back. My regular dr. keeps track of my thyroid now.

Having said all that, you have let her know how you feel. She has gone out of her way to call you personally and give you her personal phone number. I might give her one more chance, and see if you have to wait like that again, and if you are given more of her time, so you can ask the questions you would like answered. I might also call the other dr.'s office and ask what the normal wait time is there. If the 3rd visit with the current dr. does not go any better than the first 2, I would be finding another dr.

Jasdip, If your DH has high blood pressure, you might want to try another dr. also, if he could be seen much sooner at a different dr. The long wait may be sending his BP up, and giving a false reading of high blood pressure just because of the wait time. Unless it is the dr that is doing the pressure check, I see no reason that the other staff can not see him sooner, if the only thing he is there for is to have his blood pressure checked. If that is the only thing I am going in for, the staff does it, and I am in and out. If I am seeing the dr., my wait time is about 30 minutes, unless she has had an emergency. In that case, we are asked if we would like to wait, or reschedule.

No, I wouldn't give her another chance. I understand why she's anxious to keep you, but unless she sheds the company that makes her act like that, what good is she to you? Don't burn bridges. Just go to your July appointment and if you like him, that's that.

no I wouldn't wait for 2 hours. I have been to a dermatologist and you check in and then go wait in a wait area, then the nurse will come and get you in about 5 -10 minutes. Take you to the exam room and the doctor comes into to look you over. Does whatever needs to be done, talks to you and then sends you to the area where you pay. I would say from arrival to leaving it only takes about 45 minutes to an hour. Its a huge practice. I also go to a kidney doctor and the same is there. Doctor takes as much time as you need to ask questions. I'm pleased with my doctors.

I might wait that long once, but only if I thought it was due to unusual circumstances. When I checked in I would expect the receptionist to apologize and inform me that the doctor was running late and then give me an approximate waiting time. If the doctor only spent 3 minutes with me then I'd never return.

Chisue - I hope you don't mind my asking, but why do you have such a low opinion of dermatologists?

If I get lousy service from a store or a repair shop, I rarely give them another chance. Why are doctors any different? I just walked out on mine today.

Nope...you gave two chances already. I, too, think it's unusual she called and asked for another chance. Strange. The other doctor might have the same waiting time, but I'd be inclined to try him before going back to the first.

I understand if there is some kind of emergency and the doctor's schedule is thrown off for the day. I also understand that the management of health practice groups are demanding that doctors speed through their day so that they can see as many patients as possible and earn as much money for the group as possible. But waiting for 2 hours every time and then not having the time to ask your questions is unacceptable. See her one more time if you want, but if you find at any future date that you get the same long waits and quick consultations, then definitely go to the other doctor. I think Chisue gives you some good food for thought about the benefits of your PPO.

The practice is poorly managed if you have to wait that long. And her practically begging you to stay, giving you her cell phone is certainly unusual, as is the short face time where you can't get your questions answered....these are red flags. I live in a major metropolitan area and never have to wait more than 15-20 minutes before being called in...then maybe 5-10 min in the exam room.

I would send a letter to the company and complain....things won't change unless people speak up. I would keep the appointment with the male dr and if you like him, don't look back.

No. Try the other doctor. You can always go back to her if you really end up disliking him.

Sadly, what I see with the kind of work I do is that as a result of insurance costs and the financial demands, many practitioners are loosing their private practices and being forced into clinics owned and operated by hospitals or HMO's. They loose control over everything and patients suffer because the doctor is constantly over booked. In my experience it is very rare for a doctor to reach out like that, so my thought is the opposite of carabubble, the other doctor will still be around if it doesn't work out, but I would give her another chance.

I wouldn't have gone back after the first 2-hour wait appointment. I can understand the unusual situation where an emergency arises, but I doubt a dermatologist has those kind patients. If I had gone back after the first appointment, I never would have waited 2 hours again. I would have gone to the receptionist and said that I was leaving, that I wasn't going to wait any longer. Her calling you and giving you her personal cell is strange. I think the way she treated you for the total of 8 minutes of time she spent is telling. She could have apologized to you then for making you wait so long. She had two opportunities to do that.

Thanks for the overwhelming advice to go to the other doctor first. I like the lady, and she did apologize to me when I was in the office. She took my hands in hers and told me she was so sorry, but the apology took up part of my 3 allotted minutes....... Lukkiirish nailed her situation, and I feel sorry for her, but she didn't do a proper exam. I can't see my back and she looked at my face. I will take your advice and go to the male doc in July.

Definitely NOT.

What would bother me is having questions unanswered.

"the apology took up part of my 3 allotted minutes.." sounds like how I felt in the lawyers office settling my DH's estate. Nice woman but at $300/hr broken down in minutes, I cut the conversation as short as possible.

argh, I forgot about the 2 hour wait, and didn't know she didn't examine you. Yeah...have to say that changes my perspective a bit. Actually, we just left the oncologist my husband's regular doctor referred us to for similar reasons. We had been going to him for several months and I just hated going there. It was impossible to get an appointment, his staff was horrible to deal with, we'd spend hours waiting plus he would have his P/A examine my husband. Not once did he ever examine my DH himself, he just took the word of a PA and left it at that. I don't know how we lasted as long as we did, so I change my vote!!

Dermatologists rarely (most probably never) have emergencies that cause them to run late.

A doc can hold my hand all they want. If they demonstrate that they value my time less than they value their own, I don't go back.

Unless the physician was truly an expert in their field, and I needed that expertise, I would not go back.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/fashion/19beauty.html?oref=login

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/health/patients-costs-skyrocket-specialists-incomes-soar.html

I know it's been said, but don't even think of going back. Two hours waiting, begging you to come back...something's not right there.

I wouldn't go back to her.

I did have a doctor that had long waiting periods like that a couple of years ago. She was very thorough. She took time with her patients which I liked. Your doctor doesn't sound like she is anything special.

The only time I wait for the doctor is if they are excellent doctors and spend as much time with me as I need, for those I am willing to bend. One of mine does run late at times but then she spends plenty of time with me and makes sure everything is covered and all my questions are answered.

I would definitely not in your situation. If the doctor cannot spend time with you, you don't need to spend time on them. I agree about going to A PPO doctor and facility if you are paying for a PPO. Why cheat your self, get what you are paying for. Being limited to HMO is very likely why she has to run her business that way.

The only valid excuse a doctor has for that kind of wait time is if he/she is an OB/GYN or a specialist that gets called into the hospital for a delivery or an emergency. And if that is the case, the receptionist should be notifying his waiting patients, give them the choice to wait or rebook.

I would be going to the new doctor and forget about this one.

This doctor told you that the practice for which she works forces her to hurry through appointments to cram in as many appointments as possible.

No matter how much you like her, counting on any doctor in this practice will mean hurried visits, which increases the likelihood of a missed or incorrect diagnosis.

A friend went for her regular visit and ended up having 40 spots taken off that were precancerous so I am sure that made her doctor a little later getting to the next patient since she couldn't know there were that many. BUT, I go to her too once a year and she always takes time to hear what you have to say and never tries to hurry you out. I would certainly give the new doctor one visit though and if you didn't like him, then return to the other one IF you had to. To not even check your back though, and hurry you out.....what if she missed something? That would be a huge concern for me.

Maire_cate -- My low opinion of dermatology comes from two sources. First was my late MIL, who was an RN and hospital administrator. She said dermatology was a profitable specialty, as your patients don't die due to anything you have done, and they never get well, so are a continual source of income. General practice dermatologists have no emergencies, and they can see a large number of patients a day -- no muss, no fuss. Today, they have hit another gold mine with cosmetic procedures...and Botox!

My second source is a dermatologist, the 'guru' to whom other dermatologists in my area send patients when 'nothing works'. He says that there is has been very little science in dermatology. Most skin ailments are a variety of eczema, and eczema responds differently in different patients -- to a limited range of medications. He became interested in finding *causes* of eczema.

He researched ingredients in hundreds of commonly used OTC body and hair lotions and liquid soaps. He began testing patients for some of these ingredients when he did skin-sensitivity tests. It turned out that a lot of people could be *cured* by just avoiding some products.

This was years before P & G and others started claiming they were 'green' and removed (some) irritants -- mostly dyes, and preservatives like parabens. They can't profit selling a liquid that will 'go bad', but the preservatives in these products can cause skin irritations, especially among older people with fading immune systems. It seems *obvious*...now.

Interestingly, the dermatology 'guru' got there because he wanted to prove to his internal medicine MD father that there was more science in the field and that he could be more than a trusted 'witch doctor' doling out the usual salves that wouldn't *cure* anything.

I'm not saying that people with do not need to be screened for skin cancer! I do wonder if there isn't overzealous 'treatment' of supposedly precancerous cells. (DH has been 'zapped' countless times -- blue eyes, extremely fair skin, and a lot of time in the sun on HS tennis and swim teams.)

I have walked out and never gone back when I waited over an hour. That was my first and last visit to that doctor. He called that evening and apologized. With my current internist, I know I have to wait but when she sees me she spends as much time as needed with me. When I check in, her staff lets me know if there will be a long wait. She is very popular and no longer takes new patients. She also sometimes needs to admit a patient that she is seeing and that consumes more of her time.

Had the same thing happen to me up tp and including cancelling appts because she was so busy...I moved on to another Dr and now I see his nurse practitioner. Best move I ever made...

Chisue......I went to my reg. doctor for a round spot on the top of my nose and he zapped it a couple of times but wasn't sure if it was cancer or not and didn't want to cut into it because of where it was located and being thin skin in that area. He made an appt. with the dermatologist and as soon she looked at it she told it wasn't cancer but was caused from the sun she did a treatment and it was gone in a few weeks. Another time I went to reg. doctor for a skin rash on face (cheeks and chin) and she wrote a prescription for a cream and gave me prednisone pills for a week. My regular visit with the dermatologist was a few weeks later( I should have waited) and showed her what I was taking and she asked who gave it to me as the cream should never have been used on the face because the face is thin skin . She said the prednisone was ok for short term but gave me a new cream and cleared it up by the next day. I just heard she will be leaving as her husband is retiring and the are moving to Virginia which leaves our town with no dermatologist....kind of scary as I don't think a regular doctor has the expertise in that area.

I used to go to a dermatologist who was notorious for this. I had to wait 2 hours a few times, but in her case, it was because she was super chatty and would just talk and talk and talk with her patients and her front desk staff and just about anyone. I only went a few times.

I think dermatology can be stressful. Not as much as some other specialties, to be sure, but melanoma is on the rise and it's one of the deadliest cancers if it isn't caught very early.

Our days of sun worshiping have contributed a lot to the rise in melanoma. My friend's DH had a mole on his back that was bothering him. He was diagnosed with stage 4 and was dead about 6 weeks later. Not something to mess with! It spreads to organs quickly.

I will call the dermatiolgist and simply cancel my appointment on Monday.

DH and I both have an appointment with the recommended doc, and I looked at his reviews on Vitals.com. Not one bad review. All 5 stars. No waits. Very caring. Excellent. Removes problems with no scarring.

It sounds like that is the way to go, then. I hope he works well for you. It is so hard to find good, caring drs anymore, who do the job to the best of their ability, in spite of what the insurance companies want.

chisue, I think you've haven't gotten the best information concerning dermatology and its practitioners. Do some more checking and talking, you may want to revise some of your views. RNs who think their knowledge and understanding are on a par with physicians they've observed or worked with are common but it's a laughable premise. And a false one.

Everyone likes to think they only go to "the best" doctors but the truth is that unless you're the victim of an unmissable mistake, you'll never know. As I've said before, if you want quality control, many of the best experts are at medical schools. In addition, there are so many people looking over shoulders that mistakes and omissions usually can't go uncaught. If it's something more than mundane and it's just you and one doc in the room, you can't be sure.

I think it's really just a roll of the dice depending on the doctors experience and what you are seeing him/her for. I wouldn't rely on any of the websites that offer reviews because they're very subjective, don't provide any facts of the situation(s) and not all clinics overbook to increase their bottom line. Instead, I look for a hospital ran clinic where the doctors bio is listed on the hospital website. You know that way the physicians are vetted and you can see first hand what their back ground is, how long they've been practicing and so on.

Also, not all waits are due to over booking. For example, my husband's primary doctor will spend whatever time is necessary to ensure a patient gets the care they need. Sometimes a visit is 10 minutes, sometimes it's an hour. He knows from experience that he's is going to get the attention he needs (just like everyone else) and he's willing to wait for it. One way to have a sort of check and balance is to have any specialist you see, dermatology included send a consult note to your primary physician as follow up for his/her file. The primary physician can go over the notes and act as a second set of eyes. If you go to a specialist that you've been referred to by your primary care doctor, the consult notes are sent automatically.

When I check in at the receptionist's desk, the first thing I ask is if the doctor is running on time or if there is a wait. They will usually tell you how many people are ahead of you. You might want to do that. After they give you that information, you can decide to wait or leave. I started doing that after I was burned one too many times.

With this doctor, where you have already had 2-hour waits, I would change doctors. It sounds like she has the best of intentions, but she will not be able to overcome the scheduling problem, which she does not control.

I agree LucyStar1. She has no control over the scheduling, but I have control over going back there again. You can't believe the waiting room! They have chairs in the hall and even then there are usually a couple people that must stand.

Nice article -

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2012/05/long-waits-doctors-office-disrespect-patients.html

"A practice that doesn’t make you wait has undoubtedly made a philosophical and financial decision that it’s not right to make patients sit very long in the waiting room. They respect your time as much as they respect their own. So they are careful to reserve a few slots every day in their schedule in case a patient’s visit takes longer than expected or there’s an emergency. They also create some “breathing time” in the schedule to help ensure the ebb and flow of people in and out won’t create a frustrating and tiring delay for their patients.

A practice that always makes you wait has a different perspective. They are typically maximizing revenue, over-booking multiple appointments to allow for some “no-shows,” and even encouraging extended patient visits and un-planned procedures because they increase the day’s revenue. Basically: More Patients + More Procedures = More Practice and Personal Revenue"

Sorry this is so long, but I work in the medical industry and am in an average of about 30 clinics a month with a wide range of practices including family and specialists. What I find amazing about that article, as well as opinions in this thread is that I used to feel the same way until I saw the other side from a couple of different angles. Sure there are two doctors that I know of personally, that could care less. One is always late coming in and the other purposely over books to extend his revenue. Revenue for his growing pockets is actually his only concern.

However, NONE of the other clinics I service over book as a standard practice and still the physicians tend to work not stop from the minute they arrive to the minute they leave; and often times that is long after the staff. In addition to seeing patients, there are tons of things they have to fit in between appointments some of which is factored in but not all of it and before you know it, that 15-20 minute appointment (which is an average of how long a normal appointment takes) has suddenly turned into 30-45. Now granted to always have a two hour wait is not reasonable, but I continuously see where the staff and doctors skip lunch because appointments have run over or they use the time as a means to catch up for the afternoon crowd. Their desire and effort to keep the process moving is there, there's just a lot of variables to take into consideration. So now, I don't believe it's reasonable to expect to be called in within a few minutes of my arrival; it's just not that cut and dry. I don't service HMO clinics, so I can't really say how they work from personal experience but a doctor once told me that due to Obamacare and changes in the industry, they (physician's in general) are no longer seeing the incomes or benefits they used to and they are over worked and underpaid now just like the rest of us.

DH and I visited a dermatologist who had recently joined one of the local hospital *conglomerates* after having a small office in our former home town. The receptionist sat in a huge lobby area, surrounded by various medical offices. She issued every patient a beeper that would sound when that doctor was available.

We were used to a 10-15 minute wait. This was an hour.

Snidely -- You would have to have known my late MIL -- not 'just' an RN, but wise to the *business* of medicine from her days as hospital administrator.

@lukkirish, "underpaid"??? Yes, maybe primary care, peds, family & internal medicine because they spend more time with their patients.