So sorry funkycamper. It's all apparent to me.... I've obviously been looking at it too long! DW and sink are on the island. You have the cooktop and double ovens correct. Beside the ovens is a countertop with upper cabs to the right of the window. The fridge wall has a counter with uppers to the left and a pantry to the right.

Hi, sherri058, your island seems to obstruct traffic from the hallway.
and also it's very close to the support post. Here it's shortened by 1',
and moved 6" closer to the cooktop, leaving 36" between island and
post.

I think your fridge drawing might be out of proportion. Is it a 30" fridge? (Edited to add): I see that it's fridge and freezer columns--are they counter depth?

Or a cabinet with glass, front and back?

Shelves across window (google search)

Since you haven't gotten many responses, it's probably for a couple of reasons. First, people might have the same confusion I did about placement. Second, we really need measurements including aisle widths, size of island, walls, etc. even though you have given the scale. Or, at least, put the scale on the drawing so people notice it easier. Last, people also like to see the adjacent rooms in the drawing. Besides the DR, what is around your kitchen?

I think one simple change would be a big improvement. I don't see anywhere for dish/cutlery/glassware storage near the DW. I would move it all down to allow a cabinet to store these next to the DW. Oh, I would also get a bigger sink if you're only doing one sink. At least 30". But what I DON'T LIKE about this plan is that you can't open the DW without impacting someone at the cooktop. You could switch the DW to the other side but this means either prepping over the DW or if someone is doing dishes while you need to prep, carrying items farther from the fridge to the other side of the island. Workable but clunky, imho.

I like this idea much better. 2nd oven to be mounted under counter either at end of island or to the right of the clean-up sink. This gives you good storage near DW and if you want to try doing what I do with a DW, i.e., leaving it open while prepping so items can go directly in without having to keep opening/closing door making clean-up quicker, the DW is set back and not in any pathway.

What is in the direction of the arrow? Just trying to figure out if a layout change would work.

Oh, cool, MamaGoose popped in. She always has good ideas.

Thank you funkycamper :). I like your idea to put the clean-up sink under the window. A dish drawer in the island would be close to DW, for loading clean dishes.

Sherri, since you have two wall ovens planned, can they be beside the fridge? Move fridge up, then make pantry wider.

I found some photos to illustrate the appliance wall:

Leesburg Traditional Kitchen - Fridge & Ovens · More Info

Yikes, I wonder if there is a stop on the door in this kitchen? I can hear the door knob banging into the cabinet or oven--the stuff of TKO nightmares!

I was out all morning so am a bit slow with my thanks and responses.
mama goose have you been looking at my ideas file? I just added a picture of shelves across a window last week! Also loved the look of the cabs in front of the window - but don't think I like the idea of cleaning them.
I am attaching another attempt at the layout, adding in some clearances. I am not concerned about the distance between the post and the island because it really isn't a thorough-fare, plus it is as wide or wider than a lot of the doors in the house. Also, the door to the dining room is the kitchen entrance. We have french doors off the hallway which is the most used access.
funkycamper, I enlarged the sink to 30", as it will be my only sink. Thanks for that! I also switched the sink and dishwasher to the opposite end of the island, though I'm still not sure about its placement to the left or right of the sink. I never leave the dw open when I am prepping, so it isn't an issue for me, and since I am the only cook, no one is going to be at the cooktop if I do open it. There are pros and cons to doing everything yourself, I think!
Thanks for posting the appliance wall mama goose. I hate seeing
all those appliances together which is why I decided on the f/f columns -
they will look just like another pantry. I can move the ovens over to the range wall, in fact they have been going back and forth a lot, but the ovens are wider than the countertop that you are replacing, so I would have to reduce the pantry size unless I move the fridge or freezer column. My current thinking is if the ovens are beside the window they will be less visible from my sunroom, I will have less expense as there is plumbing for the steam oven in that location already, plus it opens up the area beside the DR door making it a less claustrophobic walkway. funkycamper, I'm not sure why you moved one oven to under the cooktop and the other to the island? Or are you suggesting a range instead of cooktop and ovens? I have also considered putting the convection oven under the cooktop, but since I need to have the steam oven above the counter it made sense for me to stack them.
Thanks again for your comments. I'll spend some more time with them now.

Gardenweb · More Info

lol, sherri, I forget that I can go to the profile pages for idea books--I was never a member of Houzz before the merger. I did try to locate your old thread asking for layout ideas, and couldn't find it.

I suggested moving the ovens, only if you move the clean-up area to the window wall. If clean-up stays on the island, I see no problem with ovens staying tucked beside the window.

"... I am the only cook ..." Then have DH clean the glass cabinets. ;)

Yes, I put range on the diagram. I just don't care for the look of wall oven stacks and think you need a landing space next to the fridge. The island would work for that but it might be a little far. I didn't realize you already had an oven under your cooktop.

So you're only doing one sink? I think that's too bad but OK if that's your preference. I think you should put the DW on the far side of the island from the fridge (to right of sink while facing the sink) with a drawer stack to right of DW for everyday items. You will still have plenty of space to prep on the other side of the sink and could still spread out on both sides if needed. Since you don't tend to leave DW open while working like I do, there shouldn't be a problem with it there and it will still allow for a second person to help with clean-up while you prep. Even though it doesn't seem to happen often for you, maybe someday it will. So it would be nice to allow for that. Also, it would be irritating if you are needing to prep when the DW is in the middle of the venting-steam portion of the cycle (if yours does that). Mine does and it's pretty hot for awhile.

I'm glad you're going with a bigger sink. So many people rave about how much better it is when the sink is bigger. Especially since you're doing dishes on an island.. You have more room inside the sink to let them dry inside instead of on the counter itself if you choose to do so.

Re the oven wall stack. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to have it at the other end of that counter run, right next to the door to DR. There is a good and bad to this. The good: the stack won't block light from the window so you'll get a bit more natural light into your kitchen. The bad: it will be right in the doorway to DR when the doors are open. And, of course, a few steps further away. Since I don't use my oven all that frequently unless I'm baking, most of our regular menu items seem to be stove-top stuff (we stir-fry and make soup a LOT) this wouldn't be a big negative to me but, of course, YMMV. And I have an extreme need for natural light while this may not be an issue for you.

But, then again, you have a sunroom right there which probably already brings in all the light you need so, if that's the case, keep wall stack where it is and ignore the previous paragraph.

I think it's looking quite good. I would enjoy working in that space.

"... I am the only cook ..." Then have DH clean the glass cabinets. ;)
LOL!!

@funkycamper - I don't have the oven under the cooktop, but it's been there along with just about every other place in the kitchen! I've been wondering about the ovens where they are because of the window, but honestly, it is a north facing window and it doesn't give me a lot of light. I don't use my oven a lot (I use the grill outside a lot), but I also think I might use the steam oven more often.
Yes, I have a lot of light from the sunroom, plus I also have a skylight in the kitchen. I'm with you on natural light. It is something that I really need. I think I am okay with using the island for a landing spot for the fridge, or if I leave my coffee station where it is, do you think that would be enough?
I get the impression that everyone thinks the left side of the sink is the prep space? Maybe it should be.... I just envision it to the right. Fridge to counter to sink to counter on right. I dunno. This all gives me a headache!

In your current plan, it makes more sense (to me) to have the DW on the left side of the sink, with a trash pullout and the larger prep area on the right, where you'll be doing most of the chopping, slicing, etc. You can 'scoop, turn and drop' to the cooktop, then pull out the trash and scoop debris directly into the can. I think you have it right.

Thanks mama goose. I have really agonized over this kitchen. It probably isn't ideal, but everything is a compromise it seems. Do this, lose that. Ugh.

I read through everything once, but there's a good chance I missed an important detail.

It makes sense that you don't want to move any windows or doorways. Have you considered closing up the hallway wall? This is what came to my mind; I didn't think through the fine details, but it might be worth consideration. I tried to work within an imaginary line drawn from the closet through the kitchen (as drawn in red) in the hopes that it would help the kitchen boundary look more intentional. The clean up zone could go against the exterior wall or you could skip two sinks and just put the DW to the left of the prep sink.

Oh, with your sunroom and skylights you can probably ignore my concern about light through that window then. It sounds like you'll also be fine with landing space for the fridge.

Mama Goose raises a good point about how you can work at your sink. I tend to place my items from the fridge next to the sink but then pull them out and work on them all while standing in about the same spot. I don't move from one side to the other. Of course, my sink is next to a corner so that would make sense for me, right? But you don't have that constraint.

I understanding agonizing. We've all been there, I think. The thing to remember is that none of us probably have the ideal. Most of us have to make some compromises. From what I've seen in discussions here, even people building new end up having to compromise a bit. But since we all cook a bit differently, that includes cooking techniques and the types of food we tend to eat, and we all have our own preferences, we are going to make different compromises. Something that drives me batty, may not bother you at all. And vice-versa.

I think the key is to understand the general rules, pluses-and-minuses of the various options, and how each decision will impact how you use your kitchen, and then you are making an informed decision that you can probably live with. What would be worse is finalizing and remodeling with a plan in place where you didn't know that this would impact how you do that and then find out how much you don't like it and, only afterwards, realizing there were other ways you could have compromised that you would have preferred. Yikes to that!

In my own kitchen, I'm going to be thrilled to get the DW out of the middle of my prep space where it opens out into the room and is a constant source of irritation when both of us are in the kitchen. I'm also going to be thrilled to get a prep sink because both of us trying to use the sink at the same time or the frequent pauses we make while waiting for the other are another major irritation. Now, to get the sink out of the prep space, I need to move it to the end of a peninsula. It will be a huge improvement for the above reasons but it will also cause a problem. I can currently unload about 85-90% of the items without having to take a step. I can bend, lift, put away. The other items take 2-3 steps. Quick and easy. After it's moved, I'm guesstimating that about 70% or so of the items will require 1-2 steps to put away while the rest will be 4-10 steps. This is partially due to the new DW placement but also do to create a baking center and a beverage/snack center out of the main kitchen area. Since I really dislike unloading the DW, I'm a bit worried about this as this will increase the time it takes to unload.

I've made DH do a bit of pretend prepping and clean-up with me using the proposed layout and I think the trade-off will be worth it but there is still a bit of a nagging voice telling me I might be wrong. In anticipation, I bought Ikea's cute, little Raskog cart that will fit well near the DW and I figure I can group things together in it like, for example, all items that go to the baking center together, all items for the beverage center, etc., and then move the cart to where these types of items will go to put them away. This will alleviate numerous trips across the kitchen so at least I'll only need to take one trip across and around the kitchen and I won't be juggling things and probably dropping them. The cart shelves have raised sides so items won't fall off.

Just trying to give you an example of a compromise that isn't ideal and then trying to identify potential solutions to work around it. No kitchen is perfect so the goal is to make it the best possible kitchen for you. Hope this all makes sense, gives you food for thought and helps you get past agonizing to problem-solving.

Oh, benjesbride was posting while I wrote my above-novel. That's an interesting idea. It has a tad less counterspace but what is there is very functional.

Oh, thanks benjesbride, I thought I was finished and now you have me confused again! It's a interesting layout that I will definitely play with. I hadn't thought of anything like this!

I found this on my PC. I can't remember whether I posted it in your previous thread or not. Since it's similar to what bbride posted, I thought you might like an idea or two. I vaguely remember you're needing a drop zone for your DH's things or I may be wrong.