Always interesting to hear how different they can be in different regions and with different culture methods!

I also go on which varieties I see very few pics of from everyday growers. You see Celadine, Aztec Gold and TLD pics from all over the country but rarely do you see Waimea blooming away in someone's backyard. Except maybe Rox's :)

Hi Jen,

a more important list would be what are the good bloomers one should have. The top of the list will be TLD, Penang Peach, and Atzec Gold. Kaneohe Sunburst, Beautiful Thailand, J-4, Honey Queen are also great bloomers. Celadine is a very poor bloomer in our area. I had 12 plants more than 10 years old. I got rid of them all.

What I do with no so great bloomers is I graft them on rainbow trees with great bloomers. That way I always have some blooms on every tree. My rainbow trees have an average of nine varieties on them.

would love to see a pix of your tree in bloom... :-)

Add Lurline to the list!

For me, Celadine is a reliable bloomer - it's pushing a few inflos already, even with barely any leaves! This is in the Inland Empire (So Cal). My Aztec Gold, however, hasn't bloomed in the past 3 years. I think that's partially my fault, though.

GS is a slow bloomer considering the number of tips it has. I think my tree has 30+ tips, and it bloomed on 4 of them last year. But like I said in another post, maybe it just hasn't hit "critical mass" yet. It seems happy in every other way, that's for sure.

Wildfire is going 2+ years (since I got it), with no blooms.

My Nebel's Rainbow has also not bloomed in years. I'm thinking about using it as grafting stock.

Good to know about Intense Rainbow, though- those flowers are show stoppers ... but only if there are flowers!! It's still on my list, but I'm not going to go nuts trying to get one.

George - I remember reading a thread you wrote a year or two ago about a new grafting technique that you were testing that produced minimal graft scars. Are you still working on that, or did you publish it in the PSA newsletter and I somehow missed it?

-Hollis

My Intense Rainbow from Derrick (paradise) was a cutting 2 years ago and both of it's tips are pushing nice inflos. Will post when open. roxanne

Hollis, the method is done. I just need to write it up.

Rox, Intense Rainbow from Derrick is not really the real thing, it is just some NOID. I have both of them.

This from Derrick

This the real Intense Rainbow from MPG

George

oh CRUD!!!!!!! You are kidding I hope!

You got to be careful with Derrick's cuttings. Some of them are not true to the name.

Wish I had known that 2 years ago, you are very wise and glad you told me. Two of the 8 I ordered rotted. That leaves India which is going to bloom, Intense Rainbow, Kona Hybrid, Midnight Ruby, Wailuku and Honey Rose...all have inflos. Well, all in the learning process. Atlas I know now and can gift them away if I don't like them and trade up for the real thing. Many Mahalos for setting this straight for me. roxanne

Great thread, Jen!

Wildfire for me has hardly grown. I bought it as a single tip cutting in 2012. It was rooted already but despite that, it is a slow grower for me.

J105 bloomed the 1st year, but inflo was small and the flowers didn't live up to their beautiful reputation. It also was a single tip so maybe it won't bloom this year.

Nebel's bloomed last year but was stingy with flower production. Such a non-event, I can hardly remember.

Lei Rainbow.... my boss brought this one back from Hawaii and it was in one of the JL packages. It hasn't bloomed yet, but I only received it last year.

Intense Rainbow lived up to it's name and was a good long bloomer! I was so happy with this one.

Let me add a couple more of my reluctant bloomers.

Moragne #23. I bought it as a rooted cutting with small inflo in 2011. It threw a few small blooms but hasn't bloomed since. Please bloom!

And, I know it's hard for many of you to believe this but, DSP is not happy at my house. I swear that I must have the ugliest, least-blooming DSP ever! It bloomed on 2 tips last year but the inflos were small and short-lived. Really, I don't like it that much but have held on to it because everyone thinks it's such a great one. It needs to prove something to me this year. :)

Mele Pa Bowman is another that seems unhappy with me. 3 years and it has hardly grown at all.

George - How exciting! I'm looking forward to reading it.

I will start with Moragne #78 A.K.A. Kelly Moragne - this plant is THE SAME SIZE IT WAS WHEN I BOUGHT IT LIKE 3 YEARS AGO. I bought it rooted & the roots were fine. So after a year of doing NOTHING I dug it up, actually re-cut the bottom and re-rooted it. It still has done NOTHING. It hasn't grown, much less bloomed so I'm at a loss with this one.

Bali Palace - it has grown these 4 super long spider limbs and it's been 2 or 3 years but now it's pushing inflos on all 4 tips so it may redeem itself, we'll see. It's on probation.

Madame Pele - this tree is taller than I am and has bloomed once. I don't care though because when it bloomed it was MAGNIFICENT. The inflos were huge and pendulous and full. They were wonderful.

I know I have a few more, I'll see if any come to mind.

Jen, what a great idea to start a list like this! It is interesting to see what people have to say about different plumeria in their area.

Haha, Emily! Bali Palace is on probation!! I love it!

Cindy Schmidt has never bloomed for me and just keeps getting taller and taller. She is testing my patience.

California Sally has never bloomed for me, and I live in California! ?????

Goldmine is another that has nubbed twice, but has never bloomed. I have had this plant for at least 5 years and have moved her around to try and find the right spot. It is probably the most unsightly plant I have. I nickname it the Charlie Brown Christmas Tree. Without leaves, it is ugly with nubs and stunted tips that never grow.

Wildfire might be one that just needs to get started, and then she'll take off. For me, she was a slow starter, but she finally bloomed for the first time last year, and she has inflos again this year. She is worth the wait IMO.

J-105 is a reliable bloomer for me as are most JJ plants.

Elizabeth Thornton Lemon Drop sounds like she is happy in Texas and in Cali! She is a happy bloomer here on the west coast, too! I wish all of my plants were as reliable as ETLD.

Hi George! Nice to see you again. I do plan to post a Best Bloomers thread, too.

Thanks
for the input on Celadine. I'd never heard of anyone having poor
production from them, so it's good to know that even Celadine can
under-perform. My neighbor had two big trees that bloomed every year
without fail, big fragrant flowers that lasted a long time, so I'm
hopeful it'll do well here at my house.

I agree about Derrick.
His intentions seem good, but it looks like the varieties he offers are
just similar to the named ones they're represented as. Maybe he doesn't
realize each is genetically specific and not named for a general
appearance. His cuttings are supposedly very healthy and his customers
seem pretty happy with them otherwise. Just beware if you order that it
may not be what you expect. There's a flower he's calling Makaha Sunn
being sold that looks only vaguely like the real thing. I'd bet good
money it's not.

We can add Hollis and Mona to the
Wildfire-not-thriving club! Mine grows very slowly, too. And, yes,
Paul Weissich is a skinny plant! Mona, that's such a shame about
Waimea--maybe it's a little sensitive? But it's good to know that it's
possible to do well with Intense Rainbow. That was the least sensitive
Rainbow for me; I don't think it ever black-tipped like the other two.

And Mona, I had the same experience with Penang and Divine as your DSP experience. It took years for them to bloom but now they're very reliable bloomers at my mom's house.

Emily and Wendi, you crack me up! I'm with you in that I'll tolerate a gangly plant IF it blooms and the blooms are stellar. And maybe Wildfire and J105 just like the West Coast better than Texas. Funny, because CA Sally bloomed beautifully for me a couple seasons ago and may again this year.

I'm adding Polynesian Sunset to the list. It violated probation and now in the big house when it black tipped on all tips. Note: its been very wet for the last month.

Elizabeth Thornton Plumeria (specific plant not a disambiguation and not to be confused with Lemon drop, Mardi Gras or the other strong performers) is now on watch list as it continues to drop new growth. Its been wet and was root pruned/straightened this spring but it did this last year as well. It still did bloom last year but was maybe 5 flowers per inflo. Here is a photobucket link to an ETP pic from last year.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/kms4saturdays/plumeria/Flower%20Close%20ups/20130929_170808_zps189d79d4.jpg

I can't really add to this list as I'm only in the 2nd year of this hobby. But thanks for making this post. Veracruz Lutica, Paul Weissich, Singapore White, Mele Pa Bowman were high on my wish list so I'm glad to get the heads up here from you veterans. I'm thinking that perhaps I'll get another year under the belt before I get those.

Also, I saw a couple of posts about Derrick. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get what you thought you ordered. That's very disappointing. I had placed an order with him a month ago as well and just received his shipment this week. The cuttings look OK and it was well packed (just took a long time to get here). Just one had the pith rotted about an inch up and I recut but he had 2 extra cuttings so it wasn't a big deal for me. I'll keep in mind the possibility of the mislabeling but at least some of the ones I got can't be mislabeled that badly (i.e. DSP) and some are his own varieties. I'll be happy if I get any of the colors that I saw in the pictures even if they are noid's but I absolutely understand the disappointment in finding that something isn't what you thought it was.

Mele Pa Bowman Ive had for almost 3 or so and just finally throwing its first inflo. Its about 3 foot tall. If the flowers dont impress me Ill have to let it go.

Fruit Salad that I purchased from Fuzzy also isnt a good bloomer, almost three years also. Maybe I should give it a larger pot.

DSP doesnt do well for me for some reason. Plants are alive but not much blooms...

On the contrary, Singapore blooms well for me and I still got flowers until early February until the inflo died. The inflos on Singapore seem to last a long time though.

Thanks for giving us the heads up for us newbies. I've been growing plumies for only 1 year & 1/2 and I have 8 already. I do have Kimo and it bloomed for me last year. I'll have to watch and see how it acts with me.

Btw as I said I'm very new. I'm Jesse and I'm from Orange CA but currently live in riverside CA.

Hi to all you plumie heads!

Hi Jesse, welcome to the forum! You live close to a lot of plumeria addicts in the OC.

Yes, I'm trying to help other newbies avoid what may be disappointing varieties. Glad to know Kimo is doing well for you!

I have 3 Mele Pa Bowmans and they all thrive and bloom and smell wonderful. Just shows again what some do in different areas.

Jandey1,

Thank you! And all us newbies appreciate it :)

Yes hopefuly Kimo blooms again this year for me.

He better! if not I'll threaten him with the compost pile! Lol I would never do that :D haha. But I do threaten my plants sometimes when they don't want to bloom and I swear it actually has worked lol I'm not even kidding. Idk if some of my brugmansia love me and bloom a lot or are just afraid of me lol

And btw I met one! A plumeria addict in the avocado festival at la habra heights he was selling plumeria at the festival. I bought several plumeria from him including kimo.

Great to hear you met another plumieholic! Was is David K? He has a huge collection.

Jesse - welcome! I'm relatively new as well and so happy to have found this forum. wonderful people on here with great experience all willing to help out. I must warn you though. if you see pictures, scroll thru really fast as if you don't, you are liable to stare at the gorgeous flowers for a while and all of a sudden your wallet is a lot thinner :).

Jandey1,

No it was a guy named Rick. Idk if he is on here on GW. He has a website he sells plants and cuttings and affordable. I don't remember the website but I do have his business card somewhere.

Btw since we last talked. I looked at Kimo closely and guess what?! I see a inflow starting to poke through! Yay! I guess he is going to keep performing for me! He is warned lol

Tom_Socal,

Thank you! : ) great hope we can all have some fun sharing pictures and info. And idk if I will be able to do that lol I'm just too weak for plumerias lol

When I saw Kapalua somewhere. I said I gotta have it! So I searched for one and I found a website that does offer it but it's like $250 or $300 for just a cutting!! Wow so expensive. I'm still not over it and will keep looking for a cheaper one. So wish me luck! And if you know of a source let me know!

Hi Jen!!!

Hmmmmmm.. Reluctant bloomers.. I would add Duvauchelle to this list since I had mine for years and it finally bloomed when George C and I had a fun contest to see who could get their Duvy to bloom first.. Mine finally bloomed but it took many years..

K. I do agree about Elizabeth Thornton she is being very slow to show me any signs of an inflo. I do keep a close eye on her though.. I'm hoping.

Roxanne.. So sorry to hear about Derricks cuttings.. I have heard and seen others posting apit how beefy and healthy they are, but I have also heard about them not being close to the true variety.. I'm hoping that yours are correctly labeled. Fingers crossed!!

I had a few trees that I bought from a nursery in Florida and all three were mislabeled. So disappointing ... ( she is no longer in business)

Great thread!! I know I have a lot of trees that haven't bloomed for me in many years and I'm waiting patiently.. Cookstown Sunset , Carnival, but I can't stop thinking about the reliable ones.. So when you start the post on that subject Jen, I'm sure we will all agree on most of them.. Penang Peach, Divine, ETLD, California Sunset, Desert Sunrise. I can think of so many great bloomers but I think I have blocked out the reluctant ones.. I decided to " down graft " or some called it " sectioning". a few tall and lanky trees that were just getting to tall.. Maybe if I place those " Reluctant Bloomers" on the deck where I did the down grafting , they would get scared and decide to finally start to process..

Before

After...

Another..

I couldn't find the three tipped original.. Sorry, but it gives you an idea of how much I took out from the mid section..

Great thread!!!

Laura

This was my Aztec Gold.. I'll repot after the graft takes.. Very lanky and slow to bloom..

J-105 is a great bloomer for me.. Seed pod is still on and it's been 8 months, so I'm keeping a close eye on this baby!!

Nebel's Rainbow is another that is on lock down... Ugh !

JL Dane.. On the list too!!!

Laura

Hey Laura,

I was going to ask you about your seedpod ... my J105 is still holding on to its seedpod, too. Not sure how old it is, but close to 9 months, I'd guess.

My Aztec Gold has not bloomed in years. It's in a hard spot, though, so I don't know how much of that is really my fault. Plus it had some cold damage a couple of years ago that sealed off most of its tips. It's in the ground, and this year seems happier than it has been in the past. We'll see!

Hmm ... J105 was one I had on my "wants" list, but then I took it off because a lot of people said theirs never bloom. Seeing that it does well for you Laura, makes me want to add it back to the list since we both live in colder climates. On the other hand, you ARE the exalted queen of all plumeria, and everything blooms for you, lol....what to do....what to do.....

Hi Hollis!!

I keep checking on my seed pod and it just seems to be the same as it was when I brought it in for the winter in October. It seems to be very healthy and the two pods are looking fat and firm, but I don't see any signs of it looking like its ready to split. I think I'll go ahead and cover it with mesh now just to be safe.

Glad to hear yours is still holding on too! I think the seeds from this beauty will turn out some incredible colorations. ! Im Truly excited about these babies!!! Let me know how yours is doing.. How long is yours? I'll have to take a pic of mine and we can compare..

Hi Lisa., J-105 is a beauty for sure!! I think it's like others, it just takes time to mature and once its happy and established it will bloom. Last year was the year for my tree to have beautiful blooms on J -105. I had it for years. Before it showed me her beauty...Just like some others.. It does take time, but its worth the wait!! I wish I had more blooms on others.. Thanks !! I'm definitely not the one that has the blooms.. I wish .... Lol!!

Good to hear, Laura ... I just wrapped mine in mesh, although it also looks the same as it did at the end of last summer. My J105 is just barely waking up now, too, so not sure if that has anything to do with it. I'll start a new thread on seedpods and post some pictures tomorrow ... so I don't keep hijacking this thread! :)

Lisa, I've only had my J105 a year, and it had an inflo when I bought it (at Lowes!), so I can't speak to repeat blooming yet. However, the blooms were amazing ... I wouldn't strike it off your list just yet!

This is a very long thread, and I've not read everyone's, but I just wanted to add (if someone hadn't already) that reluctance to bloom can also be a by-product of culture and climate and not necessarily in the variety. ..In a pot vs. in the ground. Pot-bound vs. large pot. Long growing season vs. short growing season. Feeding vs. not feeding. Winter 'stress' levels, etc. etc.

I think it was George (Houston area) who posted how well his Aztec Gold blooms for him, but for me in my cooler region with shorter growing season, it just puts out foliage and (very) long branches!

Dave,

I agree with you. However, you could control some of these things to some degree. If you have too much vegetative growth on Atzec Gold it gets too much nitrogen. Limit the amount of fertilizer it gets and let it get pot bound. It should do better. I grew one in a 30-gallon pot for 27 years, never repotted it. It bloomed every year on very short branches. It had more than 30 inflos on it every year.

Jen,

I have to agree with you on Wildfire. Mine has bloomed once in four years. Most all JJ's have bloomed annually for me, including J105. My best bloomers:

Aztec Gold, J105, Gina, Hurricane, Duke, Gardena, Temptation, Jeannie Moragne, Rhonda, Thornton's' Firecracker & Broomstick Rainbow.

Lonnie

George, thanks. I'm still in awe of that Aztec Gold. Mine got nearly as tall. Some inflos developed, but most flowers and inflos eventually aborted. I don't know what caused this besides culture. Maybe bugs. Who knows?

Rox146,

I just read an old thread where James (freak4plumeria) mentions his Mele Pa Bowman didnt start to bloom until it was 4 1/2 to 5 foot tall. It is a leggy grow at first. And at that point is when it generally starts to branch out more, hence more blooms. My MPB is just about to reach that point, so maybe this is when I will start seeing it bloom more often.

mine were 18 inch cuttings when I got them. All three are in pots and have bloomed each year since for the past 4 years. Such a great scent. The man I got them from told me of all the singapores, they are a bit more cold tolerant. I do roll them under the awning if it gets really cold for here. Good luck.

Just looked at another... Maya. I love the variegated foliage so that is why she will always have a home. I had an inflo last year. after several years of hoping and waiting, but It aborted early..

This variety is known for being a reluctant bloomer, but she makes up for it with her beauty!!!

Laura

Thanks rox146 for the reply.

In regards to the reluctancy to bloom, I wonder if there are other factors at play such as what height the cutting was taken at or of it was grafted or maybe the arid heat versus humid heat that affects certain varieties differently. Another thing is climate. So. California winters are different from winters in the southeastern US. Then in spring, our night temps in So Cal hover around the 60s and can still dip into the 50s as late as June. And there's June Gloom to boot.

More on the height at which the cutting was taken. There was some talk in the fig forum on cuttings taken from mature wood versus cutting on young wood. The mature wood cuttings would fruit at a smaller size. I think there is a similar thing that goes on with citrus too. Does it matter which point the cutting was taken at with a plumeria? Such as a cutting from branch with short growth before flowering inflo appears versus a very long stem that still needs to reach that heavily branching point.

good point and interesting question. These were taken from mature 10 foot trees that are grown in the ground on the coast here in Ventura. They were cut 18 inches from the tips but again, very mature trees. They are in the warmest sunny hot location on our tiny deck.

Musaburo!!

Always great to see you here!!!

Good points..

I do agree that climate plays a huge role and I can see it in my trees when they are coming out of dormancy here on the east coast. When I see an early inflo, I'm torn because I know it could potentially not mature and or not have the coloration that a late inflo would produce...

A good example is my Kapalua. It stays inside my great room all winter because I can't move the huge container from where I have the sliding doors. It's just to big. This tree has always produced early inflos in the early spring / late winter and usually the inflos will abort. Some do stay on the tree like this year and as of today, they are growing with the leaves finally appearing as well.. This is a late tree to leaf out for me.. ( One of the last to leaf in the spring ) I do believe its the light factor in my house along with consistent heat to aid in the early appearance of inflos) this variety has always been late for the leaves to emerge. We also have to remember the early inflos are being produced from the branch from last year and at the earliest part of the tree waking up it will push these if they were forming before dormancy last season.. Kapalua is the only tree that I have that will produce inflos on most of the branches when waking.... I can't keep it cool during the winter because its in the family room. So the first hint of more sunlight along with it having heat all winter( 68-70 degrees) it wants to wake up and push inflos that were wanting to emerge... This is the best example I have of a tree going into a semi dormant state and keeping active at the same time.

A few friends in Southern California would mention about the loss of inflos due to the " May Gray" and " June Gloom" when the sun is absent for a while...

I have found that cuttings from mature wood are the best for rooting verses green wood cuttings, but I haven't noticed any blooms that are smaller unless its a known variety for having smaller blooms.. Look at grafts.. They are producing the same size blooms and can be from mature wood as well as green wood and can be from smaller cuttings.. So size of the cutting? Good question....

Very interesting..

Laura

jeannie jr is usually my first bloomer, but this year bradenton beach flowered first. Some years different varieties seem to not bloom or bloom very late, other years they go crazy, but jeannie jr is always earlry and blooms heavy all season long. i have a noid dark red/black that blooms early and heavy too. usually nebels rainbow and pinwheel rainbow do well. princess victoria usually blooms well but has only put out metairie pink flowers the past few season. princess claudia always does good too. i have a wildfire that is about to bloom for the first time, but the inflo is taking forever to open!

Another factor to consider in your "new wood" vs. "old wood" quandary is that an 18" rooted cutting might bloom the same year, but an 18" plant grown from seed still has at least several years before its first blooms, I always thought that was odd but intriguing. =)

So nice to see old friends posting again! Printmaster, Musaboru, Kingbingo...glad everyone is doing well this growing season.

Rox, you seem to have the magic touch with some of the more reluctant ones! I'm still waiting on Wildfire, Waimea and J105. Did you find out if you'll be around next Friday?

Jandey, your cutting is doing great and not looking too good for next Friday due to visiting family....so sorry.

Hello Jandey and Laura! I tend to lurk often here. Speaking of old friends I can't but help think of No Clue and how much her collection has grown.

If I recall correctly Al (tapla) wrote something about plants such as citrus having grown a certain height will have a different "age" from the lower portions of the plant. And mature growth having triggers to start flowering. But if a cutting was taken from below a certain height then the cutting will need to grow more to reach that maturity point to start flowering. I know I am not explaining it right but it is something to that effect.

Dar, that makes perfect sense. It seems like cuttings that come from big mature trees in Hawaii, where you see lots of inflo scars up the branches, tend to bloom faster than cuttings from less mature trees.

Dar,

Most citrus from seed have a very long juvenile period through which they must grow. For example, some grapefruit plants from seed may need to grow 10 years (or more!) before they can even bloom. During this time the foliage must not be trimmed. They may need to reach 15 high or more and are usually very thorny. This is one reason why most citrus is grafted instead of seed-grown.

Dr. Manners on the Citrus Forum explained many years ago that they believe mature citrus wood must grow up to a certain 'node count' from the seed before that wood is capable of blooming and bearing. So, a grapefruit may need to grow out 500 nodes before blooming.

Of course we're comparing apples to oranges when we're talking about starting plumerias from cuttings, since cuttings of named varieties are already 'mature wood' in the sense that blooms have occurred 'lower down' on the wood.

Now when you say 'mature' wood, perhaps you're talking about the age of a particular branch -- whether it's still in a flexible green stage, or a thickened more mature stage?

I don't know if it matters 'where' on a mature tree the cutting is taken. Seems to me, regular blooming depends more upon the health, vigor and established root system of the newly rooted cutting. It takes a lot of energy to produce and sustain an inflo. Some cuttings bloom when they're not established, but they probably already had a latent bud developing in the tip prior to being cut.