It seems to me that we have a number of people here who have an interest in or career connected to grammar and the written word. Maybe we have quite a few of these people here because they are comfortable with and enjoy writing and reading.

As a secretary for years, I too was careful of grammar, spelling, etc., and I did enjoy it.

If someone here posts and makes errors, as I'm sure I do, I would never judge them. I'm just glad to see participation. Actually, when I see someone post with poor grammar or whatever, I feel happy for them because no doubt they know writing isn't their strength, but they are doing it anyway to be part of the community. Yay for you!

And "Yay for you socks".... for seeing the positive side of this subject. My DH is a perfectionist who feels "compelled" to correct everything. For MANY years that made me feel so inferior.... he didn't mean it in a judgmental way, but that is the way I heard it. I almost feel sorry for him, for his seeing things 'so critically' ..... to me it would be such a burden. We have been married 60+ years now, and I understand that "he just needs things to be right...correct....perfect", and maybe things that aren't 'that way' just AFFECT him. And maybe our world needs critics so that the rest of us can be who we are as we live a more relaxed life. (good grief, I hope I have chosen the "right" affect vs effect. LOL)

I agree with you plllog. I have multiple styles of communication when on the net. Sometimes it depends on my audience, other times simply on my mood. At times I'm just too tired to care. If one uses formal grammar to make a point they may be accused of being snobbish or their statement appears to be that of a know-it-all to some people. If you slip into slang or relaxed grammar others may accuse you of being ignorant or disrespectful of language which somehow they seem to make personal and about themselves.

Since you cannot please everyone I choose not to worry about it or sweat the small stuff ya no wha ah mean? ;-)

Since we can't see one another's expressions it is easy to be misunderstood on the net. If someone doesn't like the way a person communicates they can SOB. However it goes both ways. There is no real good reason to point out every little error but there is also no good reason to take offense over every comment.

Come to think of it I use different styles of speech in real life too. It's a way to blend. But people see my facial expression and "think" they can read me. But even in real life we let people see what we want them to see.

I once bookmarked a very astute comment from another GW member. She doesn't frequent this forum, and probably doesn't even remember the exact words she typed, but I can't express the thought any better. In part:

"I do not understand why people choose to be offended. I wonder who in
their right mind would not assume that a large, public forum will have a
very, very broad mix of opinions, attitudes, and communication
styles/skills.


Just because someone *says* something that truly could be perceived
as snarky doesn't mean you have to own it and take it that way."

That is a good comment mama goose and really spot on. This is a mixing pot of cultures and educations and people. I would certainly expect lots of variety and differences, it sure would be boring if not. With out doubt there are many very educated people here and most don't feel the need to lord it over anyone. Those that go out of their way to speak down to others and try to belittle them are the ones that have a problem and it is not a grammar problem they have!

In the wonderful wisdom that comes with aging I have even more so learned NOT to sweat the small stuff! Let it slide, don't risk your blood pressure! I have so much bigger and more important things to deal with every minute of the day than to spend one moment on such things. Heck I need to be remembering to take my meds! I have said many times all the file cabinets in my brain that were filled up in my younger learning years with tons and tons of very important stuff from all my schooling, years and years of it, have now been cleaned out and are filling up with much more important information I need NOW to survive! A whole new library! And the memory files were severely altered apparently during the spring cleaning! Why can I not remember like I once could!
So sure I can and do when it is necessary turn on the smarts and speak the speak. Here I hopefully can kick back relax and just be without the judges judging. And if they do they should know it really does not affect me, just them.
To those that remember! You can still get the drift with out proper grammar! I need that mug lol
M R Ducks
M R Knot
O S A R, C M Wangs?
L I B
M R Ducks

I'm enjoying this thread! Thanks, Pllog, for starting the post. Yes, there are a lot of VERY touchy people, especially in the U.S. I suppose criticism of one's writing style and grammar use is akin to a comment on one's looks: it's very personal.

I don't take into account punct.u.ation on forums. At all. Or spelling. I only ask what someone might have meant if the typo impedes understanding. But when someone goes to the trouble of having a sign or an ad printed, I totally LAUGH when they get it wrong. Didn't at least three people look at it before it went to press (i.e. it costs money $$$)????? I love Cake Wrecks for that express purpose. I laugh heartily at the mistakes professionals make. If you're going to be a cake decorator punctuation is a must, not just a helpful skill.

edited to add a Cake Wreck example (HI-larious!)

I believe myself to be one of the least sexist and most open minded people I know. Honestly. Having thus forgiven myself, I can make the following comment - I think it's a very common female reaction to take any form of disagreement, apparent slight or correction personally. Even when a comment isn't intended to be personal. A corollary of that is to think that someone offering a contrasting view is being judgmental.

We had a lot of gender awareness training at work. A typical situation - a meeting where males and females are offering their views or suggestions. A male whose idea isn't adopted thinks - "Well, I missed the mark on that" or "George wants to have things his own way, that's how it is". A female in the same situation thinks "Why did they attack me", or "What did I do to George that he's angry at me, or that he didn't support my idea? He's minimizing my contribution." The male ends the day by going out to get a beer with George, the female is invited but instead goes home hurt and sulks.

Yeah, stereotypes and generalizations, but there is something to it. It doesn't apply to everyone. And the obvious, yes I'm a male.

snidely, I'll tell you the other side of the stereotypes. Males want to fix everything. Even if it didn't need to be fixed! (BIG grin, I seem to be a pretty dang good mood)

Ladies ask yourself this, how many times have you just wanted to vent, only to have hubby suggest how you can fix what you did wrong in the situation about which you were venting? That is one thing I did manage to get right. Preface the conversation with, "I just need you to listen" "Can you help me figure this out", etc. and he may just back off fixing you.

There are ways that don't need to be hurtful, and anyone so smug they can made comment on someones spelling, punctuation or whatever, should be able to just sob. If that can't be done, at least don't use a hammer! I seldom post here anymore, and have been a member since shortly after the board was formed. We don't know the posters personally and there may be health issues or just stress that cause some trouble in communicating.

rob, I think you're describing the difference between a passive (more typically female) or a more direct and active (more typically male) approach to dealing with a problem. There are active females and passive males too.

The active view toward something I don't like- I maybe can fix or change it and I'll try, or, I can't do anything about it and I'll figure out a workaround or how to deal with it as it is, or, it is what it is, can't do a thing about it, I'll ignore it and move on.

The passive approach to something I don't like - look at what I have to deal with or what happened to me, I don't know why and maybe I should understand that, not sure what to do and I need to talk to someone, I need to vent.

It's the difference of mindset between being someone with confidence who does things vs being someone who views themselves as a victim of or reliant on people who do things. It's always better to be a perpetrator than a victim.

I tried looking it up and still can't figure it out. What's SOB?

People in this thread have mentioned formal and authoritative writing. No argument, of course, that this is a social area. I have to make a general apology going forward and back, because this is something I haven't been able to change or forestall: When I'm tired or sick, whether online or IRL, I tend to babble and/or use lots of big, precise words. Well after it's all out there, I can realize what I've done, but in the moment I don't. So please know, if I sound like I'm pushing my weight around with la-di-da language, it's because I'm not feeling so well and have come online for some social comfort. It's a lot harder to be brief and simple, and sometimes I'm just not up to it.

Aw, you fixed me.

;)

ROTFL!

I'm a take action female. I'm much too direct for most women's company. Most women seem to have this social thing going where they have to work their way up to the crux of the matter with irrelevant "chat". I can't serve on committees for that reason. I have a lot to offer but I can't abide sitting there for two hours for what could take only 30 minutes. If I say something about it I am being "mean spirited" or something. Every little nuance is taken personally. It's not that I don't enjoy social conversation, I do. But there is no conversation. Everyone babbles at once. It's like some weird competitive sport to which I was never handed the rules.

Then there is the commitment issue.

Let's say DH joins a club. They meet once a month on the second Thursday. So he attends the meeting once a month unless he or someone is ill or some unforeseen circumstance that makes it impossible for him to attend comes up. He doesn't write it down. He knows it's on the second Thursday. I don't expect him home, I know it's the second Thursday. Simple.

I join a women's group that meets on the second Wednesday. First we must have a calendar to "remember" the dates. Then each month an announcement is sent. Later a reminder. Meanwhile you never know who will show or not. People RSVP (why do we need to RSVP for a monthly meet?) but decide at the last minute they are too tired, they had a busy day, their mother called, their friend's cat threw up on and on. Calendar, invite, RSVP,reminder and they can't commit. Same day each month. For years. Men I know don't act like that.

I realize these are stereotypes but it is what I observe. Plus stereotypes don't just form out of the blue. They come from observations and when a pattern is seen a stereotype is born.

Scroll On By

SOB means scroll on by. I'm saying if the subject is upsetting let it go and simply SOB.

Rob!! oh my goodness yes I am ROTFL! AMEN!

She needed fixing, always happy to help.

Watchme, you're the woman of my dreams. We could have wonderful brief but to the point conversations and resolve anything that comes along and then move on to whatever is next. Alas, we're both spoken for.

I needed fixing? Whoa. Too bad, because I am a lot like watchme.

I too have gotten in trouble at work for not "talking enough" when I am trying to get work done. Last week, we were at a meeting, and my female coworker looked at me and said, why can't we have meetings like that? It took three minutes and all was done.

Oh believe me Snidely. I can be very,very high maintenance in other ways. We all have our kryptonite and we all have our issues. Being a friend of mine is a far cry from being in a relationship with me. I can debate and argue 'til the cows come home if my buttons are pushed. My DH could tell stories, but then I'd have to smother him with a pillow in his sleep. He falls asleep well before I do. LOL

Thanks, Cathy and Watchme. :)

As a kid, I was the one who had sense, and who had the non-judgmental mom who knew all and could be asked (e.g., what do you do for a hickey? -- asked of me by an older friend as if I'd know...) Even though I'm long past being a kid, I still assume that when friends present me with a problem they want to find a solution. It might get a lot more talking than guys do, but there is a kernel of what should I do/what should I have done/now what in there.

Once in awhile a friend will say that she doesn't want to fix the problem and just wants to complain about it. I don't mind listening if that's what she wants, but I so can't imagine not wanting to fix it! Some problems there's no fixing and venting is the only action available, but when it's something functional, which has a fix, I don't get why the fix isn't desired. I'm not talking about forestalling the venting--I'm certainly willing to listen while we figure out the answer, or just listen because there's no answer, or the answer is already known but the feelings still need to be expressed--but I just don't get why, otherwise, if it's important enough to bend my ear about, it isn't important enough to try to fix.

Why do we vent? Because sometimes it makes us feel better to feel heard, and possibly have our friend commiserate; no other reasons for which I can think (which, in reality, fixes the problem). So there you go, you are fixing it. Personally, if I do vent, it's to get a better perspective to treat the other person better. Or if a situation is unfixable, at least I won't feel alone and/or find the humor in it. Humans are funny creatures. Why do we do half of what we do?

;)

Sounds like you had a great mom!

Had another thought... we typically already know how to fix it, but might not have wanted to fix things. Suggesting how to fix things won't help there. Humans being what they are, want the other person to change. They're supposed to do what we want, doncha know? But that's a stretch.

I tend to be long winded both in written and in speech. I figure if someone wants straight to the point, they can skip my post if they desire. So please feel free, because I feel a long winded moment coming on here.

I do tend to write matter-of-factly, so I'm sure there are times when people take offense to it. I would imagine some if it would depend on the person's mood. I can be sensitive myself at times. Usually I let a lot of things roll off my back, but if I am pms'ing it's often not so easy. Thanks ovaries! I have tolerance for other people's differences and would consider myself a very accepting person. I consider myself to be very empathic and can often see where another person is coming from, but I'm also not afraid to speak my mind. This is probably where trouble finds me. LOL

I find what bothers me the most is the gang mentality that happens all too often on anonymous forums. It's not what's being said, it's that people all start jumping on the band wagon against someone and it's not even necessarily to do with what a person was asking. I've felt this with myself and I've seen this happen on other posts and quite a bit on Houzz. I have jumped in more than once to "stand up" for someone. Usually it's because I hope people realize that maybe they are being harsh against the poster. Again, it's not usually about people disagreeing with the poster but how they go about it. In most cases jumping in doesn't help. LOL My husband always asks me why I even bother.

I think for me personally, it comes down to certain trigger words in posts that set me off. Sometimes those trigger words don't effect me, but if there are hormones involved, I can get testy. It's not that I'm so upset that I could drop kick someone through the screen, but I do get annoyed. Ok, full disclosure, I couldn't drop kick someone even if I wanted to.
Usually, the majority of the time when I'm "debating" an issue, it's simply that, debating. I'm very, very rarely heated. I don't know why so many people just automatically assume that if someone disagrees with you they are heated. I can't even count the number of times I have laughed in exasperation because of something being said over and over again. It's like beating a dead horse. If you have something new to add to the conversation, please do, but stop repeating the exact same thing over and over again, especially when someone has already answered the question. It really does usually make me shake my head and laugh.

There could be an entire post about someone complaining that I do not agree with, it rarely bothers me. This is usually true, even if it's something that I feel is an attack against something I do or believe in. I am definitely not one to shy away from standing up for myself. I come from a long line of people who are not afraid to speak their mind and are stubborn to boot, but life is too short to jump in to try and change someone's mind on every post you disagree with.

So please note: 1) If I seem "angry" in my posts, I'm likely not
2) I will likely sound more upset 1 week out of every month
3) People on message boards are still real people and have real feelings. You might disagree with someone completely on one post and then totally agree with them on the very next one.

rob333 Often when people vent they just want acknowledgement. It's usually because you want someone to agree with you. If you want an opinion most people will say, "hey what do you think about x,y,z?

Aha! Rob, your post implies that the venting you don't want fixing is relationship oriented. There are occasions when I try to explain "guy" to my friends. And I've differentiated between normal, irritating mom behavior and psychotic lunacy to friends when we were younger (when one's mom is psychotic, it's hard to realize that sometimes she's just a normal noodgy mom), but generally I don't try to fix my friends' relationship issues unless they ask for advice. My wanting to fix things is more about things like when they changed the time they broadcast XYZ TV program to an inconvenient time, or too many invited guests have responded with "I'll try to make it" and made it impossible to count chairs and portions. In that kind of situation, I'll listen to the frustration until it's well aired, but then try to engage in a dialog about how to make things work out if she wants to keep talking about it. I was particularly shocked when it was the TV program and I was told emphatically that I wasn't supposed to fix things. I didn't say so, but since there were about five ways, that didn't involve spending money, to make it so she could watch when she wanted to, and it was just an ordinary, fictional TV show, I thought wanting to wallow in the feelings rather than arranging the world to suit oneself was a strange choice.

As far as relationships go, you can't fix people, but you can improve interactions, and, to a certain extent, you can train people who are willing to be trained. People don't change, but they can alter their behavior. If you don't like the personality of your mate, sorry, you chose him. Go ahead and vent, but don't expect me to fix it for you.

Thank-you for letting me vent about venting.

And, yes, my mother is remarkable. And, "A hickey is a bruise. Put ice on it," was her answer. :)

BIG grin!