Need complete model numbers of all HVAC on both quotes to give you an informed opinion. Furnace, AC condenser, evap coil, filter box?, thermostat, etc.

IMO

Contractor 1:

Rheem Furnace -> R96VA

Rheem AC-> RA16

Navein HWH -> NPE210-s

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Contractor 2:

American Standard Furnace -> Platnium 95 Series

American Standard AC -> AccuComfort platinum 18

Navein HWH -> NPE210-s

How about sizing of furnace and AC please both brands?

I don't have that info yet - both said they will size it once they have a tentative agreement that I will move forward with them. Both contractors I have recommendations for and have a good reputation so I'm not as concerned about that. I'm trying to see if one brand is worth the increase in price over the other? Are both considered reliable brands?

Thank you for the response!

Yes, I'm aware to qualify for the $5k rebate you have to gain at least 25% efficacy in the home. They are air sealing the 2nd story framing headers, adding 8" of blown-in cellulose insulation, and wrapping return duct work / bathroom vents in the attic for $3,500. That eats at the $5k rebate, but that still leaves $1,500 off the cost of the unit. So I'm looking at it as $1,500 off for being a few years pro active, plus they offer 0% financing for up to 10 years. I was rated at 30% energy savings based off our current usage - which comes to about $35/ month on average (I made sure to calculate just heating & cooling savings). I used the past 24-months bills to calculate this with.

It's not a ton of savings which is why I was leaning more toward Rheem / Navein system for $10,500 ($9,000 after the rebate). I'm not convinced the $12k American Standard system is worth the extra cost.

Because of our current exhaust venting I was told there would be back draft issues from orphaning the HWH roof vent from the furnace, and told I have to change out my HWH to a power vent tank or go tankless. The tankless was a $600 upgrade, but it seemed worth the extra cost. I know a lot of people who have them and they have been happy with it. Our current HWH is a 75 gallon tank.

I am not sure I believe the orphaning the hot water heater is going to cause a back draft issue. A 75 gallon hot water tank is absurd in my opinion.

The money is made on the insulation. The price is typically inflated because the rule is they have to do sealing and add insulation. This is going to help lower heating and cooling costs but it will be no where near the 25% claimed.

If may be a good option for you. Make sure the HVAC equipment is properly sized and installed. That is what really matters in the long run.

Our master bath has a 80 gallon soaking tub which is why the builder likely installed a 75 gallon tank. Seems like a waste to heat that much water for the once a month the tub gets actually used which is why I was leaning toward the tankless option.

Three of my neighbors had the same Rheem guy install a couple years ago and have been very happy with their savings and said they are saving more then the guy quoted. They also have the same model house as I do. The American Standard guy has a good local reputation but I haven't spoke to anyone personally who has the American Standard system.

I spoke to them about sizing and they said they will do that once they have a tentative "verbal" confirmation I'm going to proceed with them. They seemed to be on the same page about not over or under sizing the unit.

Taking out the inflation cost from insulation (I figured that too), my cost for the unit after the rebate seems to be around $9k. Is that typical for this furnace / AC / HWH or does even $9k sound high?

You have to get the model numbers of the furnace and AC to determine if $9K is a fair price. Variable speed furnaces and 2-stage AC or more expensive than a fixed speed furnace and single stage AC. I am not an expert on tankless hot water heaters. Get the model number of that also so others may comment.

I would think an 80K BTU furnace and a 3 or 3.5 ton AC would be the right sizes. You want this confirmed with a load calculation. Have the contractor review the load calculation with you. Ask questions if it does not make sense.

The tankless water makes sense if you are trying to fill a large soaking tub. I question how much money they save versus a traditional tank. It is very dependent on your hot water usage.

I posted the model numbers above on an earlier comment - is that sufficient?

You need specific model numbers and sizes. You should also get the model number of the coil. You should not accept a third party coil. I also recommend getting a 4 inch media filter. Find out if the lineset is being replaced. It should be for the amount of money you are spending.

All of the details should be listed in the quote. If they are not then ask for the quote to be modified.

Looking into the coil / filter now - by lineset - do you mean the coolant line from the outside compressor to the indoor unit?

Yes...plus all model numbers to get sizing..

What size furnace and AC are you replacing?

IMO

As a rule of thumb, each point of SEER gets you 4% reduction in electrical use. If this is AC only, then the savings only applies to cooling months. Some back-of-the-electric-bill calculations would get you into the ballpark for how much you would save per year and hence how many years it would take to break even on the extra cost.

Actually U could buy a 14-SEER in 1999; even if it's 10 or 12-SEER, you're not actually going to gain much in A/C savings.

Might gain the most in heating...

Should do a free load-calc: http://www.loadcalc.net/

American Standard's official estimate came in today and was only $700 more than Rheem, the only difference besides brand is American Standard offered a 2 stage 18 seed compressor (Rheem was a traditional 1 stage 16 seer).

Both contractors told me they use independent companies for load calculation and because of that they won't have my personal calculation until I sign up.

Rheem guy said they use either Rheem coils or ADP depending on how the calculation comes back. American Standard guy I haven't heard back yet with the coil.

Both are running new lines from the compressor to the unit.

I honestly don't know what size I have now.

Do not get an ADP coil. The performance on the AHRI rating might be a little better, but the numbers are suspect. It is not worth the small cost savings or the slightly better performance for a coil that may fail sooner.

Look for and post the model numbers of your current equipment. The sizes are usually coded in the model number.

These contractors probably don't do load calculations when they are doing jobs outside of the NJ Clean Energy program. But they are required in order to qualify for the rebates and financing. They must hire an outside firm which is included in their pricing.

I don't care for companies who quote prices without sizing the equipment. If it is a fixed quote then they are forced to quote the bigger size even if the calculation shows the equipment could be smaller.

Looks like both the furnace and AC current units are Goodman brand.

AC Model - Goodman CK49-1B

Furnace Model - Goodman GMP100-4 Rev. B

I honestly don't feel much better though, I feel lost - everything I read seems to be contradictory and i'm not sure which contractor to go with... I want to make a decision soon, but I don't know which unit is the better choice.

Also, he mentioned the coils were copper with aluminum ends - I've read pros and cons of each - which coil material should I ask for?

I am not an expert on Goodman equipment. I think the condenser is nominally 4 tons, and the furnace is 100K BTU. The furnace output is rated as 90K BTU. Let's see how these sizes compare with the load calculations.

Here's my other concern...
The furnace is a two stage furnace but he seems to be wanting to install a Honeywell pro 6000 stat and put the furnace on a timer. If not at temp by 11 seconds then move to full speed.
It made sense when he was talking but then I got thinking later...doesn't that kind of negate the dual stage furnace functionality?

Search this board for nj clean energy. Many of us have posted. I was otd for 12k with carrier performance 2stage heat and 2stage ac (100 btu 96-7%, 4 ton about 16 seer) attic air sealing, some basement sealing, and about 6" cellulose. Went with the navien tankless because we needed it to achieve the full 25% for our 5k rebate. It went in in fall of 2012. No problems with the systems.

I love the endless hot water due to 2 grown sons who shower constantly and my one for my soaking tub. Our payment is $83 month for 10 years total (10k financed).

I'm aware I probably overpaid for some components and that the contractor made out on overpricing due to the 5k rebate. I think we all agree on that. I do think I realized some savings and the financing is great.

I got a honeywell visionpro 8000, maybe the 8320? Under $200 on amazon. No reason not to get a true 2-stage thermostat to control your 2stage furnace. If you are ready to,sign, just make that your bargaining point. Also, be sure they wire it properly. My guys were lazy and didn't pull the extra wires, but I caught it. They had wired it as a one stage furnace....

You need to get a 2-stage thermostat. Staging the furnace with a timer is a waste and not acceptable. I would be suspect of any contractor suggesting this option.

That type of behavior from a contractor really bothers me. He is getting paid $17K+ and he needs to get another $100 to put in the correct thermostat.

I'm not sure what you are saying about the remainder of the insulation rebate...but I know you must do the air sealing to do the clean energy program.

I was told that once the house is sealed properly there wouldn't be enough air for the old hwh to draft properly, therefore a power vent or tankless had to be used. I know there are conflicting opinions on this, but I did some rising and there are a good number of sites who state the same. Not sure if the power vent has higher efficiency than the standard type of hwh, tankless is much more efficient (and pricey)

Yes, sorry. My quote came to $10,600 for the Furnace, AC, Tankless HWH and an additional $3,500 for the attic air sealing / insulation. That totals around $14,000 - minus the $5,000 rebate means i'm around $9,000 OTD.

Yes, I think my final question is if I want to move tankeless or go power-vent. I was told the tankless was a $1,000 upgrade so I would be at $8,000 OTD with the 50 gallon Bradford White power-vent. My main issue is we have a two-person soaking tub in our master which typically empties our current 75 gallon tank when we fill it.

Upgrading to the Navein Tankless "A" series is an additional $275 if we want the reserve tank function which i've also seen conflicting reviews on.

I don't understand why a gas hot water burning 40-50K BTU has a venting problem, but a gas stove with 4 burners and an oven do not. I get the feeling contractors use scare tactics to get consumers to buy additional equipment.

I could be wrong and maybe it is an issue. It would be interesting to see if after the attic sealing is done to test if your current 75 gallon hot water still vents properly.

My current unit is 76k BTU, but i'm not sure either - I think it has something to do with the attic sealing and the higher temperature fluctuation.

My neighbor recently had his Furnace / AC replaced with a Lennox brand unit along with a new Bradford White 75 gallon tank (same model I currently have) from Horizon Services and wasn't told anything about back-draft issues.

He also paid a flat $7,000 out the door as well. Granted he didn't get any attic insulation done, but It's making me wonder if this whole thing is worth the effort - I feel like there are a lot if inflated costs. He also received a 10-year parts AND Labor warranty from them at no extra cost.

That's my issue with the NJ Clean Energy program. You are forced to buy things you don't necessarily want or need in order to qualify for a rebate. The rebate is generous which allows the contractors to inflate their prices. In some situations it may be a good deal for the homeowner, but in others it may not.

You also have to deal with a middle man since most HVAC contractors don't install insulation, and insulation companies don't install HVAC.

Hi mike_lee2

I will suggest you to take advice from professional before replacing AC and Furnace filter.

Thanks!!