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thisismelissa

Need burgundy/purple foliage for this spot in z4

thisismelissa
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago

This is the year. I'm finally gonna do it. This corner of my yard is finally getting the face lift it has needed since I first planted it 8 years ago. Wow, that long? Ground is prepped, and waiting to be planted.

First and foremost on the needs list is a burgundy/purple foliage tree for the corner. I'd like it to stay relatively small/medium size, and am willing to prune 1-2x/year to keep it in check.

This is the NW corner of my yard. In winter, our winds blow from the N/NW so the neighbor's lilacs will offer some protection. When the sun is high, this spot gets nearly all-day sun, at least for now. 5 years from now, possibly not, since the trees to the south are getting quite large, and they're not mine to trim. This time of year when the sun is lower, that area probably gets 6 hours of sun.

I'm no stranger to burgundy foliage in this area, so I know a few things that just won't work:
Japanese Maples, not hardy in z4
Other maples, too much root competition
Smokebush, looks too scraggly in this area
Ninebark, develops powdery mildew in this area
Birch, lost 3 river birch in that area, possible due to prior year fall drought that came on after our irrigation system had been winterized.

What I have had great luck with is Black Lace Elderberry, and I have considered trying to grow it in a tree form. But I don't think I have the patience to wait 5+ years for it to be a decent size small tree.

So I'm looking for suggestions. Are crabapples pretty much my only option? What specific varieties hold their burgundy coloring all season?


Comments (31)

  • tlbean2004
    9 years ago

    You can try the "Bonfire" Patio Peach Tree.

    It will get no bigger than about 6 feet.

    Although i dont know if it will be hardy in your area.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Gardenweb/Houzz needs to have some kind of automatic popup for anyone posting here for the first time that says "if you're asking a question about a plant without giving your general area of the country, people cannot give you helpful replies." Zn 4 could be many places. Is this somewhere arid like Montana or moister like northern New England?

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  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    So sorry, David, I'm certainly no noob. I've been on Gardenweb for nearly 10 years and it used to say my zone and area next to my name. I'm in Minnesota, zone 4.


  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks sorry for the confusion. I don't know why Houzz couldn't retain what people used to have in their former profiles.
    I think in zone 4 your options are probably limited to the various purple plums, or purple maples like 'Crimson King'...maybe better cultivar are available now that aren't as root competitive?

  • wisconsitom
    9 years ago

    Hi thisismeliisa.....this is Tom, Wisconsitom to be exact. Maybe check out "Canada red cherry", a purple-leaved form of choke cherry. Now no plant with cherry in its name is going to last all that long in tree years-you might "only" get 30 or 40 years out of these things-but they are reliably hardy, completely purple in the summer (once the foliage takes on its summer coloration), and aside from basal and root suckers-more on that later-a reliable and trouble-free plant. So, about those suckers: I have cursed the day I planted my two CRC's many years ago. But you know what? A little time spent a couple times a summer....it's not really so bad. Mine are now developing black knot, a disease that will surely spell their demise. But they've paid their way many times over, especially since mine cost me only the trouble of digging them out of someone else's yard!

    +oM

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago

    When I googled "hardiest japanese maple", I got this link...
    http://japanesemaplelovers.com/growing-japanese-maples-in-zone-4-or-lower/

    I wonder why no one has crossed the hardiest japanese maples with the larger, hardier maples? Do they not cross?


  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    David, I know that there are some developments with Korean maples that are hardy in zone 4, but to my knowledge, they are all green during summer months.

    Because no nursery will guarantee a Japanese Maple or tag it for being zone 4 hardy, I just won't go there. They're often over $100 and that's just too much for me to spend if there are no guarantees. My husband would KILL ME!!!

  • hamburglar1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You are really boxed in with the requirement of season-long burgundy/foliage. I think this may force you into selecting an inferior plum or Norway maple, as David mentions. My neighborhood is overplanted with purple trees and they don't blend into the landscape well in general. The only ones that truly look good IMO are some beech cultivars and Japanese maple cultivars. Another option would be one of the colorful Redbud varieties (i.e., Rising Sun). I have found that some of the redbuds are hardier than they are rated. Or Katsura tree (Morioka weeping) - it is burgundy in both fall and spring, but does revert to blue-ish green in the summer.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    " They're often over $100 and that's just too much for me to spend if there are no guarantees."
    Gosh I should start selling the seedlings from my garden. I just threw about 25 of them in the compost pile. (I'm kidding I know the grafts are more valuable; however if you buy from a wholesale nursery, you certainly aren't paying $100 except for a very large plant) I swear I see sometimes plants that look like weed maple X japanese maple crosses now and then. I will keep an eye on them this summer, apparently such a cross would be commercially valuable.

  • whaas_5a
    9 years ago

    Won't be quite burgundy all season but Acer x Northwind is worth a look. Its starts out burgundy for about a month and then matures to green. I had secondary flushes on both my specimens mid summer which was an incredible contrast between the green and burgundy. Fall color is excellent as well.


  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Haven't read thru all the answers, but did anyone suggest Red leaf Japanese Barberry? (Berberis thunbergii 'Atropurpurea'.) Is that hardy in zone 4?

    It's a shrub though, so may be too small for the spot. But the color is fantastic -- especially next to yellow. The best color is in sun. Also, I don't know if deer are an issue, but the deer tend to leave this one alone. It is thorny.

  • wisconsitom
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Just watch your state's invasive plants list. Jap. barberry is getting around.....too well.

    For real, I may have scared you off with the suckers report, but that "Canada Red Cherry" is a really strong performer, and a nice shade of purple/red all summer long.

    +oM

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    8 years ago

    Japanese barberry is on the MN DNR invasives list which is probably why it wasn't suggested previously.

  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    I need a tree and frankly, I'm done with Barberry!

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    8 years ago

    Not sure if these would would survive for you - Aesculus pavia 'Spring Purple' - Red Buckeye or Cercis canadensis 'Forest Pansy'. More ideas at the link. (Ignore the Berberis - they aren't a problem here.) Purple/red leaved trees

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    8 years ago

    Forest Pansy isn't hardy here (unfortunately), so I doubt it would be in Melissa's solid zone 4 instead of my zone 4-5 border.

  • PRO
    Select Landscapes of Iowa
    8 years ago

    How about a Royal Frost Birch? Doesn't take up much width and will quickly give a vertical accent. You will be able to see through it (not a very dense plant) and (as others have mentioned) it may be susceptible to BBB in time. They are very drought tolerant and a clump form would give you a good instant impact.

    For crabs if the Japanese Beetles aren't a big issue Royal Raindrops has been a good performer here. Nice part is the foliage color remains all season, unlike many that look tired or a faded bronzy by mid-summer. Flowers are not as good as Prairiefire but it is a good tree nonetheless.

    I've also grown Ruby Tears Crabapple which is a weeping variety with purple foliage. After two years in the ground it has put on growth on top and looks like it will keep growing (slowly) vertically so in time it might work for you.

    Good luck!
    Bruce


    thisismelissa thanked Select Landscapes of Iowa
  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Select Landscapes.... I've lost birch in that area, so I don't want to do a Royal Frost. I also plan on using it in another part of the yard and don't want to do 2 of them. I'm also looking for a more single-stem vs clumping look,

    Japanese Beetles haven't been a huge problem for me, per se, but they are a problem in the Twin Cities, as a whole. My roses usually have holes, but are not skeletized like some people here report. Royal Raindrops is one of the varieties on my short list. Bloom is less important to me in this spot. I do plan on putting a Prairiefire in my front lawn.

    Ruby Tears sounds interesting, but not for this spot. I really need a more vertical element.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    8 years ago

    If purple smoke cultivars are root hardy, you could grow it as a cut back shrub. You don't get the "smoke" but you do get a huge flush of deep purple foliage--6-8 ft of it. Would that work?

  • waynedanielson
    8 years ago

    Japanese Maple, Emperor I. If you have questions, go talk to the nursery department at Gerten's. It is hardy, it is available.


    Has this discussion really gone this far without mentioning purple sand cherry? However, be it sandcherry, ninebark, elderberry or any other shrub grown as a tree...it is still a shrub, with all the characteristics inherent in a shrub...such as suckering. Just because you prune the foliage off the bottom and call it a tree, does not a tree make.


    As for crabapple, Red Baron. Perhaps the darkest color-leaf color is so dark, the flowers are hard to see-, perhaps the narrowest form, and doesn't get all that tall (as defined by crabapples, not creeping juniper). and best used in upper Midwest.

    thisismelissa thanked waynedanielson
  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Wayne, funny you should bring up Emperor I. I was at Gerten's this week, and another customer had one on his cart. I asked him about it then. He basically told me that he's been able to zone-push in the area he's considering, since it's protected. My area isn't as protected. Gertens sells Monrovia-grown Emperor I, so, of course, they've not seen a winter here yet, and Gertens sells it as a zone 5 plant, without guarantee.... Scary at $269 !!

    I actually do have a tree-form purpleleaf sand cherry on my short list, as well. Gertens does carry both the tree and shrub form.

    They also carry a purpleleaf hazelnut. Not heard of that one before!

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    8 years ago

    That should be a huge plant for $269. It isn't a very rare variety. Someone has year-old grafts on etsy for $24.99.
    The purple hazelnut could be a good idea if it's the newer, disease resistant one. (and if it is hardy enough)

  • Marie Tulin
    8 years ago

    What's the snow load like where you live? Granted last winter was abnormal, but many of us lost weeping forms of Japanese Maples; they split from the snow.

    Ive been coppicing my cotinus for 15 years. They come out with big purple leaves that keep the color most of the season.

    Buckeye is a great idea. You don't see them every day (like Japanese maples)

    There's a contorted hazelnut with purple leaves. I saw several at the end of the season at a very good nursery. Not impressed. No where near as vigorous as its green relatives.

    Personally, I'd give cotinus ¨Grace¨ a chance. Not so expensive that you'd feel terrible if you didn't want it forever. And it will fulfill your stated commitment to pruning every couple of years

  • waynedanielson
    8 years ago

    I took a few moments to look at your little area. While scale was hard to determine, it looks like you have a fair amount of shade and that you have, or plan to have a lot happening in a small space.


    Shade is the harder one for the color you desire. My two top recs for the shade would be the sandcherry or the red baron crab. Corylus, Physocarpus, Sambucus, all are going to green out where they don't get enough sun.


    The Cotinus may be worth a try, for this reason: If you are hesitant to bite on a Emp. I because of exposure and price, try the Grace. The colored Cotinus are not necessarily as winter tough ...in particular wind exposure... as advertised. And if you have a Cotinus, you either need to have perspective (distance), or prune it regular to keep it looking full.


    What I have learned is this...we'll try to negotiate what is enough sun. The plant will tell you, and you'll learn something.


    Would your desire for red/purple color be able to be redirected? Rather than use it as a vertical accent behind, a flat carpet in front? I'm thinking specifically of heuchera. Or would other herbaceous perennials be able to provide the color and some height...I'm thinking perhaps hibiscus (shading issues), cimicifuga, eupatorium perhaps?


    If you have the time, check out Schulte's in St. Michael. Sometimes with the varied demands of the Twin Cities market, and all of the varied little microclimates that develop, not to mention dedicated enthusiasts who think nothing of moving their precious jap. maples into the garage each and every winter, there can be distortions of what is actually "proper" to grow in the area. Err on the side of caution and get a little north and see what's offered, and Schulte's has about as good a selection as you'll find north of 694/494.

  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Since I've already had bad luck in this space with Pysocarpus 'Darts Gold' and Cotinus 'Royal Purple', I really don't want to waste time or money on more of the same experience. The Ninebark developed powdery mildew and the smokebush looked scraggly. I'm looking for a tree-form anyway, so coppicing a Cotinus wouldn't give the desired look. Could it be grown on a standand and pollarded to give the same bushiness on top? Just looked at Gerten's offerings and it says 'Grace' turns blue-green in the summer

    I have Sambucus ;Black Lace' in that bed already. It grows like a weed and retains its color. Found one called 'Black Tower'. Tag says it grows to 6-8' tall, but pics online show taller. May consider doing that.

    Not going to do the purple elements out front. I have a different desire for that area. I've got a massive heuchera-only garden about 50' from this space. I've tried growing 'Chocolate' Eupatorium at least 6 times and I've lost it every single time. Love cimicifuga, but not for this space.

    Thanks for the suggestion on Schulte's. Never heard of them before.

    So, at this point, I'm going to be considering the following:

    'Royal Raindrops' Crabapple
    Purpleleaf Sandcherry (tree form, of course)
    Sambucus 'Black Tower'
    Cotinus 'Grace'

  • whaas_5a
    8 years ago

    Speaking from experience Royal Raindrops doesn't hold color so it looks dirty and washed out.

    Purpleleaf Sandcherry has an average life of 8-10 years.

    Sambucus Black Tower typically requires a cut back so it won't be a tree.

    Continus Grace will be borderline hardy and at a minimum will always be a shrub for you. It is blue green during the summer by the way. You only get get purple foliage if you cut it back during the growing season or you get a secondary flush.

    Still hold my Acer x Northwind recommendation. Its zone 4 hardy and will give you burgundy foliage for min 30 days during your short growing season. Can get 60 days with a secondary flush. The fresh green in late summer will look much cleaner versus washed out foliage you typically get with ALL purple leaf plants. You're always going to get superior fall color compared to most your choices as well.

  • PRO
    Select Landscapes of Iowa
    8 years ago

    Whaas/Melissa,

    Royal Raindrops here has far better summer coloration that most of the purple leaf crabs, particularly if it is on a clay-based soil that does not become extremely dry during the summer months. I would assume the coloration would hold well in Minnesota where the summers are not as intense. Would not recommend it for a sandier soil situation.

    I do agree with the Northwind idea- it is a great selection with outstanding fall color. Here though, when the early purple/red color fades into green it can also look washed out during the transition period, although it is only for a few weeks. This would be one of my top choices.

    Would not do purpleleaf sandcherry particularly if Japanese Beetles are or will be an issue. Sandcherries here are consumed by beetles in a couple days.

    The Black Tower will be a let-down in time, IMO. Have never seen a purple-leaved elder in Iowa that has that real WOW factor. And Grace Smokebush may also be a let-down as Whaas mentioned. Who woulda thunk that finding a nice purple-leaved tree for your area would be so hard!

    Good luck,
    Bruce

  • thisismelissa
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Kill me now. 'North Wind' is $359 at Gertens. Only available in a #15 container. I'd have to hire that done!

  • whaas_5a
    8 years ago

    If you're patient ask the garden center for an Iseli list in July/August and you may be able to special order for fall or likely spring next year. #3 plant should go between $60 and $90. The one I pictured was a #3 after 2 years of growth.


  • Terri zone 6
    8 years ago

    I second the choke cherry recommendation. I have the Canadien version. It has the coloring of a king crimson maple. I don't take care of it and I think it looks great. It will fit in a small space no problem. I've been looking for a second one for years and have never found one.


    Terri

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